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Thanks for replying, if you could further please clarify, if the demon is 'attached' to a person's spirit in the spiritual world, are you saying that the demon is in the person's spirit (and so in the person as we consist of a spirit, soul and body), also what is happening to the believer's soul (for, if you remember, it is born again christians I am referring to (those who have been washed in His Blood), not the unsaved)?
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Probably shouldn’t have waxed poetic <smile> That Jewess was actually from another city, but I hid her true location lest I put her in more danger than she already is. Those are violent people she is in hiding from.
Objective personal experience is reality, Like the new nation of Israel over in the holy land, an irrefutable truth we cannot deny. If observable reality disagrees with our doctrines, then guess what, our doctrines are wrong. Not the Bible of course, the Bible is always true, but our interpretation of it is wrong. I’m not talking about the “theory” of evolution or some other scientific hoax, but of events we have seen with our own eyes.
I personally have worked with demonized Christians and so have other brethren that I know.
But here is one verse . . . Luke 13:16 “And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan had bound, lo, these eighteen years, to have been loosed from this bond on the day of the sabbath?”
So unless we wish to claim the poor woman was lost, there is a biblical case of a saved person who was “bound,” which is way more than just being oppressed by the devil. Look, I’m not alone in these views. Read Merryl Unger’s, “What Demons Can Do To Saints,” or the currently popular, “The Bondage Breaker,” by Dr. Neil T. Anderson, available from Amazon.com.
Objective personal experience is reality, Like the new nation of Israel over in the holy land, an irrefutable truth we cannot deny. If observable reality disagrees with our doctrines, then guess what, our doctrines are wrong. Not the Bible of course, the Bible is always true, but our interpretation of it is wrong. I’m not talking about the “theory” of evolution or some other scientific hoax, but of events we have seen with our own eyes.
I personally have worked with demonized Christians and so have other brethren that I know.
But here is one verse . . . Luke 13:16 “And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan had bound, lo, these eighteen years, to have been loosed from this bond on the day of the sabbath?”
So unless we wish to claim the poor woman was lost, there is a biblical case of a saved person who was “bound,” which is way more than just being oppressed by the devil. Look, I’m not alone in these views. Read Merryl Unger’s, “What Demons Can Do To Saints,” or the currently popular, “The Bondage Breaker,” by Dr. Neil T. Anderson, available from Amazon.com.
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I believe this much is clear. Spirits, the Holy Spirit included reside in the spiritual world. When we listen to the Lord, it is our spirit heeding the guidance of the Holy Spirit who them shares what he hears with our mind (soul), which then puts our body in action.
If a person is the servant of the enemy, his spirit listens to a demon who gives instructions to the mind (the soul), which then puts the body in action.
If a person is the servant of the enemy, his spirit listens to a demon who gives instructions to the mind (the soul), which then puts the body in action.
Matt 17v18 states: 'And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.' The early church certainly seem to have known if a demon was in a person or not, for it states here that after Jesus rebuked the demon, 'it came out of him,' so obviously to come out of him, it must have been in him first...When you are ministering to people, does the Holy Spirit not operate the gift of discerning of spirits (1Cor 12v7-11) through you to show you the location of the demon like He did through the early church ministries and disciples?
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Ok here's the crux of the issue folks.
We have a movement who's belief and practice is founded on...
A movement who takes a snippet of a verse about a demonized unbeliever to prove that believers can be highly demonized/possessed whatever.
This is exactly what happens when you shift from basing things on scripture and rely on personal experience.
Here's what the Bible says about believers...
Col 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Ephesians 1
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 2
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Believers are blessed with every spiritual blessing.
Believers are God's workmanship.
We are not highly demonized/possessed/controlled/whatever.
We need to be grounded in the Holy Spirit inspired, foundational teachings of the Apostles. Not grounded in all this personal experience, Jewess in St Louis, trunk fulla evidence, and the Jew I once knew who was saved but didn't confess Jesus, stuff.
Ephesians 2
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SUP]20 [/SUP]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
Acts 2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
1 Tim 4
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
We have a movement who's belief and practice is founded on...
A movement who takes a snippet of a verse about a demonized unbeliever to prove that believers can be highly demonized/possessed whatever.
This is exactly what happens when you shift from basing things on scripture and rely on personal experience.
Here's what the Bible says about believers...
Col 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Ephesians 1
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Ephesians 2
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Believers are blessed with every spiritual blessing.
Believers are God's workmanship.
We are not highly demonized/possessed/controlled/whatever.
We need to be grounded in the Holy Spirit inspired, foundational teachings of the Apostles. Not grounded in all this personal experience, Jewess in St Louis, trunk fulla evidence, and the Jew I once knew who was saved but didn't confess Jesus, stuff.
Ephesians 2
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SUP]20 [/SUP]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,
Acts 2
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
1 Tim 4
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
T
I could give you a couple of actual accounts, but since they would be testimonial rather written in the Bible I doubt you would accept them, no matter how true they are. Brother, the Bible is irrefutable truth, but not everything is recorded in the Bible. Tell you what, I'll continue to help demonized Christians who ask for help, I just won't do it in the forum, is that OK? <smile>
If we don't have the truth (from the Scriptures) firmly fixed in our minds, how can we minister effectively to a needy person, as the Lord Jesus would have us do, even as He showed His Apostles and disciples during His time upon the earth 'in the flesh'? I don't know if you are aware or not, but there is not one case of a believer in the New Testament being possessed (ie. having a demon in them)! Indeed the Scriptures clearly show forth that it is impossible for a believer have a demon in them, but indeed that Satan and the powers of darkness fear and flee from believers. Luke 10v19, 1Cor 3v16, 2Cor 6v16, Col 1v13, James 4v7, 1John 5v18 etc...
T
Salvation has very little to do with knowing or teaching doctrine, everything to do with leading people to understand they are monsters of iniquity (you and me included) before a holy God. It is a humble, contrite and repentant heart that leadeth to salvation, not doctrinal niceties. In other words, God is looking not at our doctrines, because "God seeth not as man seeth, for man looketh upon the outward appearance, but God looketh upon the heart."
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