-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1
Therapon this is more very concerning stuff from you.
Your belief and ministry to "demonized" believers/people is based more on personal experience than on scripture.
You say
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976815
You say
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
So you've constructed this thing where personal experience can be the foundation for how you practice ministry.
Even though the Bible says we've been transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light...
You assert that believers can be bound/demonized/whatever.
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
But you seem to dismiss what Colossians says about believers because...
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
But what did Jesus himself say about people who honestly thought they were casting out demons in his name, and thought they knew him?
So this ministry practice that's built on personal experience IS concerning, considering Jesus addresses people who honestly thought they were casting out demons, but weren't.
Also you teach..
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...el-out-chronological-order-13.html#post962441
This all together is concerning.
1.Ministry practices based mostly on personal experiences.
2.A salvation that can come from not recognizing Jesus.
Therapon, please take time to reflect on this.
I'm trying my hardest to tread gently because you are my elder.
But if after some honest reflection, if you see some teaching and practices that need adjusting, please adjust accordingly.
Your belief and ministry to "demonized" believers/people is based more on personal experience than on scripture.
You say
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976815
You say
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
So you've constructed this thing where personal experience can be the foundation for how you practice ministry.
Even though the Bible says we've been transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light...
You assert that believers can be bound/demonized/whatever.
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
But you seem to dismiss what Colossians says about believers because...
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
But what did Jesus himself say about people who honestly thought they were casting out demons in his name, and thought they knew him?
So this ministry practice that's built on personal experience IS concerning, considering Jesus addresses people who honestly thought they were casting out demons, but weren't.
Also you teach..
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...el-out-chronological-order-13.html#post962441
This all together is concerning.
1.Ministry practices based mostly on personal experiences.
2.A salvation that can come from not recognizing Jesus.
Therapon, please take time to reflect on this.
I'm trying my hardest to tread gently because you are my elder.
But if after some honest reflection, if you see some teaching and practices that need adjusting, please adjust accordingly.
T
Well that's easy to claim, but it isn't true. The formal church in the West is dying even as I write and that isn't so because they are doing everything right. And you quetion someone's methods whose primry goal in life is not to build a grander church, but lead people to the Lord Jesus? I am a minister of the Gospel who is determined to know nothing but Christ Jesus and Him crucified for the remission of sins. If you find fault with that, so be it.
If you look at the practises of the Western Church, they have basically all followed the way of the Scribes and Pharisees (substituting their own unscriptural man made traditions for the Scriptures), for there is very little if anything in them that follows the practices and structure of the early New Testament Church, hence, like the Scribes and Pharisees they have ended up with a spiritually dead tradition, a form of godliness that denies its power. Moses was told by the Lord to see that he made the tabernacle exactly as he was shown on the Mount, how much more should the New Testament church follow exactly the practices and structure of the early Church, as the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory than the ministry of condemnation! Mark 7v1-9, 2Cor 3v9, 2Tim 3v5, Heb 8v5.
D
I don't understand how so many decent Christians can be lead astray on the issue of a christian being demonized. Therapon has clearly posted a scripture which proves this. Those who think it is completely impossible for a Christian to be adversely affected by demons should ask themselves if a Christian can have a problem with sin, addiction, porn, adultery, etc.
Clearly any Christian can be caught up in a serious sin issue, inspite of having the Holy Spirit inside of them. So how is it such a mystery that demons can't use the open door of sin in a believer's life to form a beachead?
Lastly, if you think it is impossible for a Christian who is Spirit filled to be demonized, where is your scriptural proof? I know of none.
Clearly any Christian can be caught up in a serious sin issue, inspite of having the Holy Spirit inside of them. So how is it such a mystery that demons can't use the open door of sin in a believer's life to form a beachead?
Lastly, if you think it is impossible for a Christian who is Spirit filled to be demonized, where is your scriptural proof? I know of none.
There is NOT one Scripture in the New Testament that teaches that a believer can be possessed, ie have a demon in them (so, if the OP is trying to use Scripture to prove this point, he is mistaken). The term 'demonized' that you use, is not a term used in any of the main translations of the Bible, so it might be a good idea to use Scriptural terms when talking about this subject. Christians certainly can (and do) come under attack from demons by being energised by evil power against them from outside of them (even as Paul was by principilities and powers, Eph 6v10-20), however, a Christian CANNOT be possessed (have a demon in them)!
1
No he doesn't give a clear scripture showing that believers can be so bound and demonized.
He posted the verse below which doesn't strongly indicate it was an actual believer in the first place.
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
You say..
There is a HUGE difference between overcoming the flesh, spiritual warfare, being adversely affected, and the bondage to demons stuff Therapon is teaching.
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
He posted the verse below which doesn't strongly indicate it was an actual believer in the first place.
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
You say..
There is a HUGE difference between overcoming the flesh, spiritual warfare, being adversely affected, and the bondage to demons stuff Therapon is teaching.
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
D
I don't understand how so many decent Christians can be lead astray on the issue of a christian being demonized. Therapon has clearly posted a scripture which proves this. Those who think it is completely impossible for a Christian to be adversely affected by demons should ask themselves if a Christian can have a problem with sin, addiction, porn, adultery, etc.
Clearly any Christian can be caught up in a serious sin issue, inspite of having the Holy Spirit inside of them. So how is it such a mystery that demons can't use the open door of sin in a believer's life to form a beachead?
Lastly, if you think it is impossible for a Christian who is Spirit filled to be demonized, where is your scriptural proof? I know of none.
Clearly any Christian can be caught up in a serious sin issue, inspite of having the Holy Spirit inside of them. So how is it such a mystery that demons can't use the open door of sin in a believer's life to form a beachead?
Lastly, if you think it is impossible for a Christian who is Spirit filled to be demonized, where is your scriptural proof? I know of none.
"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, [SUP]20 [/SUP]for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body." 1 Cor. 6:19-20
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? [SUP]15 [/SUP]What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? [SUP]16 [/SUP]What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Cor. 4:14-18
It occurs to me in these verses, that the Holy Spirit occupies a believer. And that darkness (such as demons) have no place in the light of Christ. I do not believe a person who believes in Christ can be possessed. I think this whole deliverance is NOT based on the truth of God's word. Or psychiatric truth, that this is even a real disease.
DID (Dissoicative Identity Disorder) is one of the most controversial psychiatric disorders with no clear consensus regarding its diagnosis or treatment. Here is a link to the history of the disorder, and some of the issues, including planted memories by the therapist, and generally the explosion of people claiming to have he disorder after movies and books popularized it.
Dissociative identity disorder should never have been included in DSM-V: doctor | News | National Post
I think people need to read their Bibles better, and not be so captivated by movies and books which purport to tell a real story, when they are in fact, fiction.
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? [SUP]15 [/SUP]What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? [SUP]16 [/SUP]What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Cor. 4:14-18
It occurs to me in these verses, that the Holy Spirit occupies a believer. And that darkness (such as demons) have no place in the light of Christ. I do not believe a person who believes in Christ can be possessed. I think this whole deliverance is NOT based on the truth of God's word. Or psychiatric truth, that this is even a real disease.
DID (Dissoicative Identity Disorder) is one of the most controversial psychiatric disorders with no clear consensus regarding its diagnosis or treatment. Here is a link to the history of the disorder, and some of the issues, including planted memories by the therapist, and generally the explosion of people claiming to have he disorder after movies and books popularized it.
Dissociative identity disorder should never have been included in DSM-V: doctor | News | National Post
I think people need to read their Bibles better, and not be so captivated by movies and books which purport to tell a real story, when they are in fact, fiction.
1
First let's define demonized as Therapon defines it.
He says...
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
He's talking about more than simple spiritual warfare.
He's talking BONDAGE!
Now you ask....
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-5.html#post977364
Col 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through His blood,[SUP][c][/SUP] the forgiveness of sins.
That means we're delivered!
Christians can't be bound as Therapon is talking.
He says...
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629
He's talking about more than simple spiritual warfare.
He's talking BONDAGE!
Now you ask....
Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-5.html#post977364
Col 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through His blood,[SUP][c][/SUP] the forgiveness of sins.
That means we're delivered!
Christians can't be bound as Therapon is talking.
T
Let me ask why Scripture commands us to test spirits within us unless we can get an evil one?
Beth, a personal friend, attends the 1st Baptist church of Naples, FL., was counseling a young Baptist lady named Rachel who was in spiritual turmoil so Beth called me for advice. It seems Rachel was kneeling at the mourners bench one Sunday evening when a woman walked up behind her, laid hands on her and said, “Rachel, you will now speak in tongues” and sure enough Rachel did. Here is Beth's account of what happened next:
“Rachel loves the Lord, reads her Bible every day, and could speak in tongues at will. I asked Rachel if she had ever had her "tongue" spirit tested as commanded by 1John 4:1-3: (excerpts) . . .
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God . . . Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist . . .”
Rachel conceded that she never had her spirit tested like that, but would like to have it done. We met a couple of days later in a prayer room at the church. After a short time of prayer, I asked Rachel to start speaking in tongues.
While Rachel was doing so, I said in a quiet voice, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." This spirit did not respond directly, but Rachel started speaking louder in tongues.
Again I said, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." Again, this spirit did not acknowledge Jesus.
Now does it not strike you as strange, that a spirit (supposedly God's Holy Spirit) would not confess Jesus? It did me. So I said, "Don't you see, Rachel, that this spirit cannot be of the Lord? It refuses to confess Jesus."
To which Rachel replied, "But in my mind this spirit is saying, 'I am lord.' "
I was almost deceived by that declaration, but I had just called ES, an elder, to discuss my meeting with Rachel when he warned me that demons are cunning, and could say something like that. So·I pressed Rachel’s spirit with, "Spirit, are you the Lord who died on the Cross, was buried, rose on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of Authority on high?"
The spirit within Rachel shrieked out, "Nooooo!" Rachel's face contorted, and hissing and snarling, she fell off her chair. Her hands twisted into unnatural claw-like shapes. She curled into a fetal position and whimpered, "Please help me get rid of this thing." I phoned two friends experienced in deliverance and asked them to come assist me, and within an hour or so Rachel was completely free of that demon.
Are we now going to claim that Rachel wasn’t really a Christian or that her familiar spirit wasn’t really a demon? Please don’t make me laugh. I know those people personally; they weren’t lying and neither am I.
Beth, a personal friend, attends the 1st Baptist church of Naples, FL., was counseling a young Baptist lady named Rachel who was in spiritual turmoil so Beth called me for advice. It seems Rachel was kneeling at the mourners bench one Sunday evening when a woman walked up behind her, laid hands on her and said, “Rachel, you will now speak in tongues” and sure enough Rachel did. Here is Beth's account of what happened next:
“Rachel loves the Lord, reads her Bible every day, and could speak in tongues at will. I asked Rachel if she had ever had her "tongue" spirit tested as commanded by 1John 4:1-3: (excerpts) . . .
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God . . . Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist . . .”
Rachel conceded that she never had her spirit tested like that, but would like to have it done. We met a couple of days later in a prayer room at the church. After a short time of prayer, I asked Rachel to start speaking in tongues.
While Rachel was doing so, I said in a quiet voice, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." This spirit did not respond directly, but Rachel started speaking louder in tongues.
Again I said, "Spirit, in the name of the Lord Jesus, declare Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." Again, this spirit did not acknowledge Jesus.
Now does it not strike you as strange, that a spirit (supposedly God's Holy Spirit) would not confess Jesus? It did me. So I said, "Don't you see, Rachel, that this spirit cannot be of the Lord? It refuses to confess Jesus."
To which Rachel replied, "But in my mind this spirit is saying, 'I am lord.' "
I was almost deceived by that declaration, but I had just called ES, an elder, to discuss my meeting with Rachel when he warned me that demons are cunning, and could say something like that. So·I pressed Rachel’s spirit with, "Spirit, are you the Lord who died on the Cross, was buried, rose on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of Authority on high?"
The spirit within Rachel shrieked out, "Nooooo!" Rachel's face contorted, and hissing and snarling, she fell off her chair. Her hands twisted into unnatural claw-like shapes. She curled into a fetal position and whimpered, "Please help me get rid of this thing." I phoned two friends experienced in deliverance and asked them to come assist me, and within an hour or so Rachel was completely free of that demon.
Are we now going to claim that Rachel wasn’t really a Christian or that her familiar spirit wasn’t really a demon? Please don’t make me laugh. I know those people personally; they weren’t lying and neither am I.
