Praying in Tongues

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7seasrekeyed

Guest
There's nothing about Jesus' baptism that supports trinity doctrine. Three separate persons yes, but three persons in one, not so much, you have to stretch your imagination and scripture to get that.
but that is not what I said

why go out of your way and then misquote what I said?

these were three separate yet one revealing themselves
I never said they were all one being so perhaps you are stretching your comprehension skills

the Bible clearly reveals that there are 3 distinct beings, yet they are one in representation. I don't think you follow what that means
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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but that is not what I said

why go out of your way and then misquote what I said?



I never said they were all one being so perhaps you are stretching your comprehension skills

the Bible clearly reveals that there are 3 distinct beings, yet they are one in representation. I don't think you follow what that means
Nope, i don't follow.
Three separate beings yes, we can actually see that, but one representation?!! not really. Is this the best description of God?

Q.When Jesus stood in the water as a distinct, separate person, was He one God by Himself?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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There's nothing about Jesus' baptism that supports trinity doctrine. Three separate persons yes, but three persons in one, not so much, you have to stretch your imagination and scripture to get that.
You have to redefine the meaning of one in your understanding, IMO. :)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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You have to redefine the meaning of one in your understanding, IMO. :)
One has only two meanings; it can mean a single unit or alone.
The oneness of God has nothing to do with single unit, it means He is alone; He alone is the creator/ He alone is eternal e.t.c. And God is not 3 lonely hearts.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Hello Brother stonesoffire (love the name),

I am assuming you are speaking about Peter (betrayed Him = denied Him)? I believe Peter repented the moment the rooster crowed and his eyes met the eyes of Yeshua looking right at him. I believe Peter after he ran away in shame, he repented then at that very moment. Now, he might have felt he was not fully forgiven, and why at the tomb his name is mentioned specifically. But I have no doubts that Peter sought forgiveness and was overwhelmingly sorrowful for Denying his Lord and Master.

The others could have felt like they did betray Him, since they all scattered like rats when Yeshua was in captive being charged so His captors could execute Him. They were nowhere to be found and did not support their Lord and Master. And I am also positive they sought forgiveness for themselves. But I am sure due to the fact Yeshua continued with them before He ascended, they knew they were forgiven.

And by Passover, the Death Angel, the lamb's blood on the door, escaping the vengeance of God was replaced by the Death, Burial, Resurrection, reborn into the Spirit of God. Good analysis!!




That must have been such an experience, with the power of God (Holy Spirit) manifesting within their unity, and then the outpouring that led to 3,000 souls being saved (lives completely changed). No wonder Peter gained such boldness to do the will of God.




I firmly believe before the Tribulation begins (which the Book of Matthew reveals the words of Yeshua concerning that the "Elect" will go through the Tribulation), there will be such a revival and outpouring of the Holy Spirit preparing those of us still alive for the Tribulation.

Obviously, the 2 Witnesses will be during the Tribulation.

To some, the meaning of the two olive trees represent, 1) the Law 2) the Prophets while the two lampstands represent, 1) the Old Covenant Church 2) the New Testament Church. I tend to agree, since these were the staples of the Bible, outside who Christ was throughout the Word.

The head and body as one, is when the Elect (the Bride) is gathered and together with Christ.

Concerning the learning, if any of us ever stop learning, we better fall to our knees and cry out to God. I prefer to be labelled as a full time student of God. There is so much we can only believe we understand and comprehend. Even trying to retain the knowledge can be a difficult task. Every moment, experience, whether in my personal life or those of others, is a complete classroom of information waiting to be learned in how God handles every situation. Life is nothing but a classroom, we are the students, and God is our Professor!!
Am a sister by the way which most everyone thinks I'm a man. Must be the user name. ;)

I think Zerrubabel "sp?" may be a key but as yet dont know what it is.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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One has only two meanings; it can mean a single unit or alone.
The oneness of God has nothing to do with single unit, it means He is alone; He alone is the creator/ He alone is eternal e.t.c. And God is not 3 lonely hearts.
Echad- one. Unified. Those at the tower were many but echad- one.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
One has only two meanings; it can mean a single unit or alone.
The oneness of God has nothing to do with single unit, it means He is alone; He alone is the creator/ He alone is eternal e.t.c. And God is not 3 lonely hearts.
have you read Genesis? let US make man in OUR image?

what version of the Bible do you not so diligently read ?

one means more than a single unit (do you consider God a unit?) or alone

for example, when a man and a woman are married, the Bible says they are one

20,000 of anything can be one as a unit or purpose
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Echad- one. Unified. Those at the tower were many but echad- one.
A husband and a wife are 'echad-one' but are two people/ two persons/two beings/ with two distinct minds. If this is the description of the Father/Son/Holy spirit then we have three Gods/ three persons/ three beings/ three different minds thereby violating:

Deut 32:39See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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A husband and a wife are 'echad-one' but are two people/ two persons/two beings/ with two distinct minds. If this is the description of the Father/Son/Holy spirit then we have three Gods/ three persons/ three beings/ three different minds thereby violating:

Deut 32:39See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
IMO...your mistake is trying to reconcile human nature which is physical, with Spirit which is eternal. They aren't "different" minds.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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have you read Genesis? let US make man in OUR image?
There's a great deal of misconception around this verse. It doesn't support trinity.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Do you even understand what is being said here? i get it, the word our has confused many to think it is more than one person but reading further, it says He created and not 'they created' and still further, it says He created him (male and female) before it says He created them - you need to ask yourself why male and female together are being referred to as 'him'.


one means more than a single unit (do you consider God a unit?) or alone

for example, when a man and a woman are married, the Bible says they are one

20,000 of anything can be one as a unit or purpose
Husband and wife are two separate persons/ two beings/ two minds; if this kind of unity describes God then we have three separate Gods/ three minds/ three persons only united in purpose. This violates:

Deut 32:39See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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IMO...your mistake is trying to reconcile human nature which is physical, with Spirit which is eternal. They aren't "different" minds.
Husband and wife are two different minds yet echad (one) aren't they?
What i know, mistake or not, God is only one person. It is complicated but trinity doesn't explain the nature of God.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Husband and wife are two different minds yet echad (one) aren't they?
What i know, mistake or not, God is only one person. It is complicated but trinity doesn't explain the nature of God.
Spirit to spirit joined. The reason why we shouldn't be joined to unbelievers. That's joined with the enemy.
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
Thank you for your explanations. In some points i cant follow you.
Anything that does not seem clear just point it out and I will gladly try to explain it better for you.


1. The Holy Spirit is a person. Jesus called him a counselour and gives him person attributes. And this we find always when he is mentioned in Gods word.
The Holy Spirit is the literal POWER SOURCE to who/what God is. I provided the scripture and if you cannot see it in scripture then it will be hard to explain it in other terms.

But, in my view, the Holy Spirit being the literal power source of God is God and of God. This is saying the same as we read in John 1:1 about the WORD. It is God and can be separate from the physical body of God.

The reason the Holy Spirit appears to have physical attributes is specifically how people translated what Yeshua was saying from the Aramaic/Hebrew to the Greek, to the Latin, to the other languages including English. We would be so much better if we could read and understand Hebrew because this would not be such an issue.

Let me provide an example for you:

The English Translation:

John 16:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The ORIGINAL TRANSLATION:
John 16:
13 Yet whenever that may be coming - the spirit of truth -it will be guiding you into all the truth, for it will not be speaking from itself, but whatsoever it should be hearing will it be speaking, and of what is coming will it be informing you."


14 That will be glorifying Me, seeing that of Mine will it be getting, and informing you."

*******NOTICE HOW THE ORIGINAL TRANSLATION CALLS THE HOLY SPIRIT (IT)*******
*******NOTICE HOW THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION CALLS THE HOLY SPIRIT (HE)*******


IF you want the TRUTH you need to read the ORIGINAL TRANSLATION!!



2. If Mark 16, 17 would be for today, then all believers can have a drink of poison as a true sign that they are believers. Did you made this test?
A good way to find out who is a believer and who not.
Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.


16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Verse 18 is not talking about going to a store and buying poison to drink and prove you are saved (THAT IS TEMPTING GOD WHICH IS A SIN). It's speaking if someone tries to poison you it will not harm you.

Example:
Paul was gathering wood for a fire when a deadly viper bit him. He shook it off and did not die. IT DOES NOT SAY, Paul picked up a snake on purpose and let it bite him!! We must use common sense here and know the difference between TEMPTING GOD and not tempting God
.


In around 157 AD (maby before this) the church was found in worldly condition. In this time a man named Montanus which said from himself that he is the paraklet, builded a new movement where prophecy and speaking in tongues occur and became a big movement based on false doctrine.
Some historical said his was possible because the signgifts had stopped in those days. And the believers linged to the gifts of the pastbelive

According your belive no true christian exist between the apostolic time and the beginning of the pentecostal movement in 1900AD. Except haretic groups which false teachings.

And even non of the reformatic founders which went back to the bible got this teaching from God to teach this in the churches.

But out of this teaching the Lord uses till today miracles and healings, special in mission situation to reveal his power in contrast to the spiritual darkness.
3. This why, who claims that speaking in tongues is for all christian available is teaching wrong.
And I asked me is the whole teaching which based on that what conquer the world since 1900 wrong.
Because it seperatet the christianity and build out an 2 class christianity.
The English Translation:

1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.


We know Paul wrote Corinthians in Greek.
So, let's use the Greek version:


1 Corinthians 13: 8
Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or [[languages, they will cease]], or knowledge, it will be discarded."



Paul IS NOT even discussing the Gift of Tongues here!!
He is discussing our/human languages!!


LOOK how bad the English Translation is!!

It made you believe that the Gift of Tongues has ended and that IS NOT what Paul actually said!!

Just a HORRIBLE EXAMPLE of the crappy English Translation]!!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Spirit to spirit joined. The reason why we shouldn't be joined to unbelievers. That's joined with the enemy.
But it doesn't work like that. I will ask you a simple question; Is Jesus God by Himself?

Like in the baptism scenario when He stood in River Jordan before the Holy spirit descended and the Father spoke from heaven, was Jesus at that point one God? standing there as one being and as one person?
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
to those who do not believe in the Trinity

so, we see Jesus being baptized by his cousin, the Holy Spirit descending like a dove and a voice from 'heaven' saying 'this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased

so either Jesus is a magician and practiced in ventriloquism also, or cheese whiz, these were three separate yet one revealing themselves

those who reject the Holy Spirit, or mistakenly call Him an 'it', reveal a very basic lack of biblical doctrine and do not approach even beginning to worship God in spirit and in truth

I absolutely believe in OUR Triune God!!

But what AMAZES ME the most about your post and obvious beliefs...

YOU BELIEVE GOD CAN BECOME A BIRD, BUT CANNOT BE 3 REPRESENTATIONS OF THE ONE GOD!!

You believe that Jesus is the FIRE in the Burning Bush who said His Name is I AM, just like He said in the Book of John.

So, God can be a FIRE in a Burning Bush, a BIRD, but He cannot be more than one entity at a time?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

You really do limit God!!
 
O

obedienttogod

Guest
Am a sister by the way which most everyone thinks I'm a man. Must be the user name. ;)

I think Zerrubabel "sp?" may be a key but as yet dont know what it is.


My apologies, Sister in Christ!! Still loving the name (stonesoffire)!!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I absolutely believe in OUR Triune God!!

But what AMAZES ME the most about your post and obvious beliefs...

YOU BELIEVE GOD CAN BECOME A BIRD, BUT CANNOT BE 3 REPRESENTATIONS OF THE ONE GOD!!

You believe that Jesus is the FIRE in the Burning Bush who said His Name is I AM, just like He said in the Book of John.

So, God can be a FIRE in a Burning Bush, a BIRD, but He cannot be more than one entity at a time?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

You really do limit God!!
Sorry but that's already more than three in one, adding a bird and fire pushes it to five at least. Why do you stop at three then?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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But it doesn't work like that. I will ask you a simple question; Is Jesus God by Himself?

Like in the baptism scenario when He stood in River Jordan before the Holy spirit descended and the Father spoke from heaven, was Jesus at that point one God? standing there as one being and as one person?
No. Father spoke from heaven. Holy Spirit descended down upon Him anointing Him for ministry because He is the pattern we follow. Fulfilling righteousness.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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No. Father spoke from heaven. Holy Spirit descended down upon Him anointing Him for ministry because He is the pattern we follow. Fulfilling righteousness.
So Jesus is not God by Himself?
I think you are wrong.