Praying in Tongues

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7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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Not sure what you meant? The bible mentions prophecy a gift of God.?

Yes prophesying revealing himself through prophecy His word.

It would seem that you are confused to what it is. Some think it has to do with the future only like fortune telling .That kind of idea which takes away from the meaning of God's word, prophecy

Tongues are prophecy spoken of in many languages of the world .Before Acts 2 only Hebrew was used. The Jews that refused to hear the word of God prophecy they denied prophecy even in Hebrew mocked God with its oral traditions of men in a attempt to make His prophecy without effect. But he mocks them by no longer brining prophecy in Hebrew alone as a sign against those.
this is so convoluted that there is no way to even begin to address the usual rote posts you respond with

you have your own interpretation and trust me, it is pretty unique :rolleyes:
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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This is not the point. The OP said: "praying in tongues will help to open the Spirit, increase in revealation the word and will strenghten you."
I see some difference. But no base for it in the Bible.
it's not the point?

well said as someone who is a cessationist

duh
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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this is so convoluted that there is no way to even begin to address the usual rote posts you respond with

you have your own interpretation and trust me, it is pretty unique :rolleyes:
My writing ability suffers but I think most can understand what I am trying to say.

Its not that hard if you would mix faith in what you do hear. For instance we know the foundation of tongues prophecy spoken in many languages of the world is found in Isiah 28 and the law in respect to it as a sign to confirm something is found in 1 Corinthians 14 :21-22

Once the understanding of what the sign confirms and who it points to is established its then easy to let go of preconceived ideology of those who seek after signs to confirm something . The older ones can die hard. But the question remain will some repent and believe the scriptures?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak (prophecy the word of God) unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that "believe", but to them that "believe not": (prophecy the word of God))but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian 14:21-22

What does the sign confirm and who is it in respect to? Those who believe prophecy or those who are hoping the sign confirm they have the Holy Spirit? Once you find the reason and who the sign points to then the rest of the doctrine falls into place.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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That is the essence of circular reasoning. You are attempting to define prophecy by calling it "God's word, prophecy".

Foretelling the future is the primary meaning because that is the most common use of the term., but when God tells you your future, it isn't "fortune telling". That future may be conditional, but within the parameters given, it is certain.
Well is God's word prophecy? If not what is it?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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That is the essence of circular reasoning. You are attempting to define prophecy by calling it "God's word, prophecy".

Foretelling the future is the primary meaning because that is the most common use of the term., but when God tells you your future, it isn't "fortune telling". That future may be conditional, but within the parameters given, it is certain.
The primary meaning of prophecy is the living abiding word of God because that is the most common use of the term. .It reveals the thing past the thing future and the present .It is not subject to time restraints .
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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My writing ability suffers but I think most can understand what I am trying to say.

Its not that hard if you would mix faith in what you do hear. For instance we know the foundation of tongues prophecy spoken in many languages of the world is found in Isiah 28 and the law in respect to it as a sign to confirm something is found in 1 Corinthians 14 :21-22

Once the understanding of what the sign confirms and who it points to is established its then easy to let go of preconceived ideology of those who seek after signs to confirm something . The older ones can die hard. But the question remain will some repent and believe the scriptures?

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak (prophecy the word of God) unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that "believe", but to them that "believe not": (prophecy the word of God))but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian 14:21-22

What does the sign confirm and who is it in respect to? Those who believe prophecy or those who are hoping the sign confirm they have the Holy Spirit? Once you find the reason and who the sign points to then the rest of the doctrine falls into place.

honestly? it is my observation that quite a number have difficulty understanding what you say because of you personal interpretation that is not in agreement with scripture

I understand that you do not see things from that perspective so I will remove myself from further discussion with you as I have done in other threads regarding the subject matter

you wish to extend the meaning of the prophetic beyond what is written and disregard any quotes from scripture regarding tongues
and negate what is written to a tidy little file you have cooked up
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The primary meaning of prophecy is the living abiding word of God because that is the most common use of the term. .It reveals the thing past the thing future and the present .It is not subject to time restraints .
Perhaps we both need to check the source to see which is the most common use of the term. I'll stand by my assertion until I see it disproven.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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it's not the point?

well said as someone who is a cessationist

duh
Then tell me where was this teaching before the year 1900? Why not to find in the churches which based on Gods word? Why not all christians got and get this gift? Independ which church they belong.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Perhaps we both need to check the source to see which is the most common use of the term. I'll stand by my assertion until I see it disproven.
I am quite confident that prophecy is the word of God. I have offered many verse that show what I believe.

What the sign according to the law found in 1 Corinthians 14 confirms and who it is in respect to would seem to a good place to start .

This is seeing the bottom line of the tongues issue is someone is looking to confirm something by something we perform.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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honestly? it is my observation that quite a number have difficulty understanding what you say because of you personal interpretation that is not in agreement with scripture

I understand that you do not see things from that perspective so I will remove myself from further discussion with you as I have done in other threads regarding the subject matter


you wish to extend the meaning of the prophetic beyond what is written and disregard any quotes from scripture regarding tongues
and negate what is written to a tidy little file you have cooked up
I am not the one who is suggesting that we go beyond that which is written.

Your personal interpretation is not in agreement with scripture and you are use that to evaluate mine as it would seem ignoring the law.

It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to? I will offer it again.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe1 Cor.14:21-22

What do you believe it confirms?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I am quite confident that prophecy is the word of God. I have offered many verse that show what I believe.

What the sign according to the law found in 1 Corinthians 14 confirms and who it is in respect to would seem to a good place to start .

This is seeing the bottom line of the tongues issue is someone is looking to confirm something by something we perform.
I looked at every instance of "prophesy", "prophecy", and cognates (prophesying, etc.). In slightly more than one-third of cases, there is no specific message (only a record of someone prophesying), and in slightly less than one-third, the prophecy was from a source other than God. Where a specific message from the Lord is recorded (about one-third of cases), most foretell the future.

If someone says "God is love" and then argues that "therefore love is God", you would recognize that isn't necessarily true. In the same way, true prophecy is God's word, but God's word is not all "prophecy". This is the essence of our disagreement. As long as you assert that every communication God conveys is "prophecy", we are talking past each other, and there's no point in continuing.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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Then tell me where was this teaching before the year 1900? Why not to find in the churches which based on Gods word? Why not all christians got and get this gift? Independ which church they belong.

same place it is now

Bible
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,572
3,163
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I am not the one who is suggesting that we go beyond that which is written.

Your personal interpretation is not in agreement with scripture and you are use that to evaluate mine as it would seem ignoring the law.

It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to? I will offer it again.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe1 Cor.14:21-22

What do you believe it confirms?

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying?

17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. I Corinthians 14

Regarding 1 Cor.14:21-22:

you will find tongues and prophecy mentioned together quite a few times in scripture and there is even note of speaking in 'angel tongues or tongues of angels'.

YOU are hung up on the word PROPHECY and DO NOT UNDERSTAND that the word is NOT always mean to foretell the future.

Prophecy also means to FORTHTELL...expound on the Bible or deliver a message that is above the knowledge of the one speaking.

Paul makes mention of unbelievers hearing tongues and being converted...as per Acts or a per interpretation that would convict the unbelieving hearer.

1 Cor 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

the point Paul is making is in reference to the unbeliever in a church hearing tongues being used improperly. never ever does Paul say do not use the gift of tongues; rather his emphasis is on using it properly and within the context of instructions so as to benefit the hearer

once again, I have engaged you in this type of discussion a number of times and you are not in the habit of acknowledging answers which indicate your comprehension of the meaning of prophecy in the context used, is faulty

I do not respect you saying things like It would seem it is you that is choking by not giving the answer to what the sign confirms and who it is speaking to?

rather than respond to what I write, you now change your tact and try to accuse me of not being able to answer you which is utter nonsense, ESPECIALLY in light of the previous exchanges we have had

if you cannot respond to my actual answer rather than twist what I say or ignore it altogether, it shows, quite adequately, that you CANNOT answer, you do not understand and can offer nothing to rebuff other than your constant musings on prophecy

I have answered your question regarding what Paul means but I don't at all believe it will satisfy you, again, because you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how the word prophesy is being used or the fact it has more than one meaning in scripture

I have entertained this type of thing from you in the past, but you know, it's enough. rattle on but not to me unless you actually wish to discuss the above IN CONTEXT without changing or twisting what I wrote
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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New Testament gift of prophecy
  1. It is still valid and useful for the church today. This is the clear implication of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 and Acts 2:17-18.
  2. It is a Spirit-prompted, Spirit-sustained, utterance that is rooted in a true revelation (1 Corinthians 14:30), but is fallible because the prophet’s perception of the revelation, and thinking about the revelation, and report of the revelation are all fallible. It is thus similar to the gift of teaching which is Spirit-prompted, Spirit sustained, rooted in an infallible revelation (the Bible), and yet is fallible but very useful to the church.
  3. It does not have an authority that is on a par with Scripture, for Scripture is verbally inspired, not just Spirit-prompted and Spirit-sustained. The very words of the biblical writers are the words of God (1 Corinthians 2:13; 2 Timothy 3:16). This is not true of the words that come from the “gift of prophecy.”
  4. The New Testament gift of prophecy is a “third category” of prophetic utterance between the categories of 1) verbally inspired, intrinsically authoritative, infallible speech spoken by the likes of Moses, Jesus and the apostles; and 2) the speech of false prophets spoken presumptuously, without inspiration and liable to condemnation (Deuteronomy 18:20). Those two categories (absolutely infallible vs. false) do not exhaust all the biblical teaching on prophecy.

Prophecy in this “third category” (the New Testament gift of prophecy) is a regulated 1 message or report in human words 2 usually made to the gathered believers 3 based on a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit 4for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance 5 but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error, and thus needing assessment 6 on the basis of the apostolic (Biblical) teaching 7 and mature spiritual wisdom.

  1. Recognize God’s complete sovereignty in giving gifts freely to whomever he wills (1 Corinthians 12:11; Hebrews 2:4).
  2. Recognize that not all will become prophets (1 Corinthians 12:29).
  3. Desire earnestly this gift (1 Corinthians 14:1,5,39). Pray for it (1 Corinthians 14:13).
  4. Be grateful for the gifts you do have; use them to the full; rejoice that others are different from you; and avoid all jealousy (1 Corinthians 12:14-29).
  5. Make love your aim in all things; realize that love is the greatest miracle and the surest sign of God’s blessing; grow more and more toward solid, stable biblical maturity (1 Corinthians 14:1,12,26,37; 2:14).
  6. Muster the courage to speak out what you believe (with more or less confidence) may be given to you from the Lord in gatherings designed for this less-structured expression (1 Corinthians 14:26).
  7. Have humble expectations that the prophecy will not be taken as a word of Scripture but as a Spirit-prompted human word to be weighed by Scripture, and by mature spiritual wisdom. For a prophecy to be accepted as valid it should find an echo in the hearts of spiritually mature people. It should be confirmed by biblically saturated insight. And it should find a resonance in the hearts and minds of those who have the mind of Christ and are ruled by his peace. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21; Colossians 1:9; 3:15; Ephesians 5:15-17; Romans 12:1-2; Philippians 1:9-10).


SOURCE

there is also a difference between prophecy and prophesy
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Where was this teaching in the churches before 1900? Why it was not taught in the churches, which are bible based?
Why not all christians get and got this gift?
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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3,163
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Where was this teaching in the churches before 1900? Why it was not taught in the churches, which are bible based?
Why not all christians get and got this gift?
well yah know, if you are opposed to the gifts, God is not going to go against your will

He does not force people to be saved and He does not force people to believe

and the teaching is in the Bible...do you put human reasoning and so called human negativity above the Bible?

people try to play God and they flop every time

same place as the last time you asked what you thought was killer question :LOL:
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I have answered your question regarding what Paul means but I don't at all believe it will satisfy you, again, because you DO NOT UNDERSTAND how the word prophesy is being used or the fact it has more than one meaning in scripture

I have entertained this type of thing from you in the past, but you know, it's enough. rattle on but not to me unless you actually wish to discuss the above IN CONTEXT without changing or twisting what I wrote

Sorry for the sarcasm.

I don't remember you answering it 1 Corinthians14:21-22?

The whole tongues discussion is all about those few who want as a sign to confirm they have received something from the Holy Spirit and call it a sign gift.

Once the sign according to the law as that which is not subject to change is revealed for what it is, what it confirms as to who it is pointing to the rest of the doctrines falls into place.

There is only one meaning to the "word of God" (prophecy) and the same with "declaring the word of God" (prophesying)

Prophets, declare (prophesy) the word of God (prophecy). They do not declare their own words. That would be called private interpretation. Prophecy is his interpretation or revelation

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian14:21-22
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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well yah know, if you are opposed to the gifts, God is not going to go against your will

He does not force people to be saved and He does not force people to believe

and the teaching is in the Bible...do you put human reasoning and so called human negativity above the Bible?

people try to play God and they flop every time

same place as the last time you asked what you thought was killer question :LOL:
I don't think God's word (prophecy) is apposed to spiritual gifts, unseen .Just the idea of sign gifts,