Predestination is misunderstood...
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“Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:20-23, NKJV.
You contention-
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
My rebuttal-
Through faith in Jesus Christ (dia pisteōs ̣Iēsoǔ Christou). Intermediate agency (dia) is faith and objective genitive, “in Jesus Christ,” not subjective “of Jesus Christ,” in spite of Haussleiter’s contention for that idea.
The objective nature of faith in Christ is shown in Gal_2:16 by the addition eis Christon Iēsoun episteusamen (we believed in Christ), by tēs eis Christon pisteōs humōn (of your faith in Christ) in Col_2:5, by en pistei tēi en Christōi Iēsou (in faith that in Christ Jesus) in 1Ti_3:13, as well as here by the added words “unto all them that believe” (eis pantas tous pisteuontas) in Jesus, Paul means.
Rom 3:22 δικαιοσύνη dikaiosynē|G1343|N-NFS|[the] righteousness δὲ de|G1161|Conj|now Θεοῦ Theou|G2316|N-GMS|of God διὰ dia|G1223|Prep|through πίστεως pisteōs|G4102|N-GFS|faith Ἰησοῦ Iēsou|G2424|N-GMS|from Jesus Χριστοῦ, Christou|G5547|N-GMS|Christ εἰς eis|G1519|Prep|toward πάντας pantas|G3956|Adj-AMP|all τοὺς tous|G3588|Art-AMP|those πιστεύοντας· pisteuontas|G4100|V-PPA-AMP|believing.
FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST
A. This is such an important term in the Bible (cf. Heb. 11:1,6). It is the subject of Jesus' early preaching (cf. Mark 1:15). There are at least two new covenant requirements: repentance and faith (Mark 1:15; Acts 3:16,19; 20:21).
B. Its etymology
1. The term "faith" in the OT meant loyalty, fidelity, or trustworthiness and was a description of God's nature, not ours.
2. It came from a Hebrew term (emun, emunah, BDB 53, i.e., Hab. 2:4), which originally meant "to be sure or stable." Saving faith is
a. a person to welcome (i.e., personal trust, faith, cf. E. 1. below)
b. believing truths about that person (i.e., Scripture, cf. E. 5. below)
c. living a life like that person (i.e., Christlikeness)
C. Its OT usage
. Abraham responded to this promise by trusting in God and His word. He still had doubts and concerns regarding this promise, which took thirteen years to be fulfilled. His imperfect faith, however, was accepted by God. God is willing to work with flawed human beings who respond to Him and His promises in faith, even if it is the size of a mustard seed (cf. Matt. 17:20) or mixed faith (cf. Mark 9:22-24).
D. Its NT usage
The term "believe" is from the Greek verb pisteuō or noun pistis, which is translated into English as "believe," "faith," or "trust." For example, the noun does not occur in the Gospel of John, but the verb is used often. In John 2:23-25 there is uncertainty as to the genuineness of the crowd's commitment to Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Other examples of this superficial use of the term "believe" are in John 8:31-59 and Acts 8:13, 18-24. True biblical faith is more than an initial response. It must be followed by a process of discipleship (cf. Matt. 13:20-23,31-32; 28:19-20).
E. Its use with prepositions
1. eis means "into." This unique construction emphasizes believers putting their trust/faith in Jesus
a. into His name (John 1:12; 2:23; 3:18; 1 John 5:13)
b. into Him (John 2:11; 3:15,18; 4:39; 6:40; 7:5,31,39,48; 8:30; 9:36; 10:42; 11:45,48; 12:37,42; Matt. 18:6; Acts 10:43; Phil. 1:29; 1 Pet. 1:8)
c. into Me (John 6:35; 7:38; 11:25,26; 12:44,46; 14:1,12; 16:9; 17:20)
d. into the Son (John 3:36; 9:35; 1 John 5:10)
e. into Jesus (John 12:11; Acts 19:4; Gal. 2:16)
f. into Light (John 12:36)
g. into God (John 14:1)
2. ev means "in" as in John 3:15; Mark 1:15; Acts 5:14
3. epi means "in" or "upon," as in Matt. 27:42; Acts 9:42; 11:17; 16:31; 22:19; Rom. 4:5,24; 9:33; 10:11; 1 Tim. 1:16; 1 Pet. 2:6
4. the dative case with no preposition as in John 4:50; Gal. 3:6; Acts 18:8; 27:25; 1 John 3:23; 5:10
5. hoti, which means "believe that," gives content as to what to believe
a. Jesus is the Holy One of God (John 6:69)
b. Jesus is the I Am (John 8:24)
c. Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 10:38)
d. Jesus is the Messiah (John 11:27; 20:31)
e. Jesus is the Son of God (John 11:27; 20:31)
f. Jesus was sent by the Father (John 11:42; 17:8,21)
g. Jesus is one with the Father (John 14:10-11)
h. Jesus came from the Father (John 16:27,30)
i. Jesus identified Himself in the covenant name of the Father, "I Am" (John 8:24; 13:19)
j. We will live with Him (Rom. 6:8)
k. Jesus died and rose again (1 Thess. 4:14)
Shalom
J.
You contention-
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
My rebuttal-
Through faith in Jesus Christ (dia pisteōs ̣Iēsoǔ Christou). Intermediate agency (dia) is faith and objective genitive, “in Jesus Christ,” not subjective “of Jesus Christ,” in spite of Haussleiter’s contention for that idea.
The objective nature of faith in Christ is shown in Gal_2:16 by the addition eis Christon Iēsoun episteusamen (we believed in Christ), by tēs eis Christon pisteōs humōn (of your faith in Christ) in Col_2:5, by en pistei tēi en Christōi Iēsou (in faith that in Christ Jesus) in 1Ti_3:13, as well as here by the added words “unto all them that believe” (eis pantas tous pisteuontas) in Jesus, Paul means.
Rom 3:22 δικαιοσύνη dikaiosynē|G1343|N-NFS|[the] righteousness δὲ de|G1161|Conj|now Θεοῦ Theou|G2316|N-GMS|of God διὰ dia|G1223|Prep|through πίστεως pisteōs|G4102|N-GFS|faith Ἰησοῦ Iēsou|G2424|N-GMS|from Jesus Χριστοῦ, Christou|G5547|N-GMS|Christ εἰς eis|G1519|Prep|toward πάντας pantas|G3956|Adj-AMP|all τοὺς tous|G3588|Art-AMP|those πιστεύοντας· pisteuontas|G4100|V-PPA-AMP|believing.
FAITH, BELIEVE, OR TRUST
A. This is such an important term in the Bible (cf. Heb. 11:1,6). It is the subject of Jesus' early preaching (cf. Mark 1:15). There are at least two new covenant requirements: repentance and faith (Mark 1:15; Acts 3:16,19; 20:21).
B. Its etymology
1. The term "faith" in the OT meant loyalty, fidelity, or trustworthiness and was a description of God's nature, not ours.
2. It came from a Hebrew term (emun, emunah, BDB 53, i.e., Hab. 2:4), which originally meant "to be sure or stable." Saving faith is
a. a person to welcome (i.e., personal trust, faith, cf. E. 1. below)
b. believing truths about that person (i.e., Scripture, cf. E. 5. below)
c. living a life like that person (i.e., Christlikeness)
C. Its OT usage
. Abraham responded to this promise by trusting in God and His word. He still had doubts and concerns regarding this promise, which took thirteen years to be fulfilled. His imperfect faith, however, was accepted by God. God is willing to work with flawed human beings who respond to Him and His promises in faith, even if it is the size of a mustard seed (cf. Matt. 17:20) or mixed faith (cf. Mark 9:22-24).
D. Its NT usage
The term "believe" is from the Greek verb pisteuō or noun pistis, which is translated into English as "believe," "faith," or "trust." For example, the noun does not occur in the Gospel of John, but the verb is used often. In John 2:23-25 there is uncertainty as to the genuineness of the crowd's commitment to Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Other examples of this superficial use of the term "believe" are in John 8:31-59 and Acts 8:13, 18-24. True biblical faith is more than an initial response. It must be followed by a process of discipleship (cf. Matt. 13:20-23,31-32; 28:19-20).
E. Its use with prepositions
1. eis means "into." This unique construction emphasizes believers putting their trust/faith in Jesus
a. into His name (John 1:12; 2:23; 3:18; 1 John 5:13)
b. into Him (John 2:11; 3:15,18; 4:39; 6:40; 7:5,31,39,48; 8:30; 9:36; 10:42; 11:45,48; 12:37,42; Matt. 18:6; Acts 10:43; Phil. 1:29; 1 Pet. 1:8)
c. into Me (John 6:35; 7:38; 11:25,26; 12:44,46; 14:1,12; 16:9; 17:20)
d. into the Son (John 3:36; 9:35; 1 John 5:10)
e. into Jesus (John 12:11; Acts 19:4; Gal. 2:16)
f. into Light (John 12:36)
g. into God (John 14:1)
2. ev means "in" as in John 3:15; Mark 1:15; Acts 5:14
3. epi means "in" or "upon," as in Matt. 27:42; Acts 9:42; 11:17; 16:31; 22:19; Rom. 4:5,24; 9:33; 10:11; 1 Tim. 1:16; 1 Pet. 2:6
4. the dative case with no preposition as in John 4:50; Gal. 3:6; Acts 18:8; 27:25; 1 John 3:23; 5:10
5. hoti, which means "believe that," gives content as to what to believe
a. Jesus is the Holy One of God (John 6:69)
b. Jesus is the I Am (John 8:24)
c. Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 10:38)
d. Jesus is the Messiah (John 11:27; 20:31)
e. Jesus is the Son of God (John 11:27; 20:31)
f. Jesus was sent by the Father (John 11:42; 17:8,21)
g. Jesus is one with the Father (John 14:10-11)
h. Jesus came from the Father (John 16:27,30)
i. Jesus identified Himself in the covenant name of the Father, "I Am" (John 8:24; 13:19)
j. We will live with Him (Rom. 6:8)
k. Jesus died and rose again (1 Thess. 4:14)
Shalom
J.
Are you well in the head,. Because one minute your saying peace to me, the next your being rude.
You sound as if you can't handle correction.
Also I have yet to see you apologize to anyone for your barrage of petty remarks.
When it comes to this type of attitude condemning people, I associate that to people who are not saved. Ding ding 😊
You sound as if you can't handle correction.
Also I have yet to see you apologize to anyone for your barrage of petty remarks.
When it comes to this type of attitude condemning people, I associate that to people who are not saved. Ding ding 😊
“How could believing in Jesus be saving oneself?”
if we don’t believe the things he actually said we might think that
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
John 3:14-21 KJV
but when we do it becomes silly to say bekieving what the savior said is saving ourselves and taking some sort of credit lol we would have to reject what he said and say “ that’s how we are saved his way and give him glory by rejecting what he said and refusing to believe him “
It’s the silliness and nonsensical circle of hypergrace where having faith means never having to believe or do anything God said will save you ….because we’ll that’s a self work to do what he said lol …..
if we don’t believe the things he actually said we might think that
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
John 3:14-21 KJV
but when we do it becomes silly to say bekieving what the savior said is saving ourselves and taking some sort of credit lol we would have to reject what he said and say “ that’s how we are saved his way and give him glory by rejecting what he said and refusing to believe him “
It’s the silliness and nonsensical circle of hypergrace where having faith means never having to believe or do anything God said will save you ….because we’ll that’s a self work to do what he said lol …..
Exactly Salvation is in the world but not everyone wants it some choose the world instead the gospel sounds to one as a beautiful song of eternal truth …..and to another a silly and stupid burden and a fools Hope they aren’t interested in
It’s an offer some will accept and some will reject and it’s informative of the results of both paths
It’s an offer some will accept and some will reject and it’s informative of the results of both paths