Predestination is misunderstood...
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John chapter 10 is about the PARABLE of the SHEEP:
What did Jesus say about the Jews and His PARABLES?
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
It fulfills Isaiah
9 And He said: 'Go, and tell this people: hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they, seeing with their eyes, and hearing with their ears, and understanding with their heart, return, and be healed.'
Paul explains it this way
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
The Jews could not understand because what God did to them.
It had NOTHING to do with Jesus not dying for them because He did!
What did Jesus say about the Jews and His PARABLES?
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“‘“You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
It fulfills Isaiah
9 And He said: 'Go, and tell this people: hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they, seeing with their eyes, and hearing with their ears, and understanding with their heart, return, and be healed.'
Paul explains it this way
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
The Jews could not understand because what God did to them.
It had NOTHING to do with Jesus not dying for them because He did!
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
God had to do that with all unbelievers for our sake.
Because, if God did not make them dull and oblivious like that?
In order to resist the truths that they would have been exposed to and been able to clearly perceive?
Demons would have been constantly filling their minds with more and more lies as a means to have them
keep on resisting what they could see and hear.
As a result?
It would have evolved into a world of monsters living all around us anywhere unbelievers lived.
In His way of making them deaf and blind?
They can now live fat, dumb, and happy...
And, in doing so? God provided us with some peace and order to live in.
If they were not blinded and made deaf?
In time we'd all be murdered by demon possessed unbelievers.
God knows what He is doing!
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“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
God had to do that with all unbelievers for our sake.
Because, if God did not make them dull and oblivious like that?
In order to resist the truths that they would have been exposed to and been able to clearly perceive?
Demons would have been constantly filling their minds with more and more lies as a means to have them
keep on resisting what they could see and hear.
As a result?
It would have evolved into a world of monsters living all around us anywhere unbelievers lived.
In His way of making them deaf and blind?
They can now live fat, dumb, and happy...
And, in doing so? God provided us with some peace and order to live in.
If they were not blinded and made deaf?
In time we'd all be murdered by demon possessed unbelievers.
God knows what He is doing!
He did it so the Gentiles could enter the Fold!
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Keep in mind...
Abraham was a gentile.
And, he is the father of the Jews!
In one sense?
We are all of the same stock...
Adam!
God, according to his purpose, predetermined what race and nationality we each should be.
God has a determined purpose with humans like we see with functions of autos.
Some are sedans.
Some are coupes,
Some He purposed to be SUV's...
Others, Off Roaders, etc.
Each having a design purpose that allows them to excel within the realm they were placed in by God....
My little "Gracer."
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if man is autonomous from God as those who proclaim that man has a free will and that God could not interfere with that free will then it is logical to deduce that God can not therefore know what will happen in the future because man by his so called free will can change it and therefore prophecy and the promises of God could not be taken to be perfect, which proves that man does not truly have free will because Scripture declares that no one can thwart God's sovereign decrees.
Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"
Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"
you then place man's free will as being the deciding factor for God's decrees and turn biblical predestination into unbiblical postdestination and deny the truth of Scripture which proclaims that God has decreed what happens to a person before they are even born.
Rom 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
and concludes that it is God's will and not that of a person that matters.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Rom 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
and concludes that it is God's will and not that of a person that matters.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
you obviously do not yet understand theology and the rampant Arminianism that is so prevalent today which does indeed say that God saves them but ultimately those who are consistent Arminians believe that it is because of their choice that God saved them and not God's choice and those who do so (which is the majority of those who call themselves Christian's today) sincerely believe that they are saved because of their faith and not grace which grants the faith as an instrument to be justified before God.
Anyone who says that they are saved because of their faith and not grace are still cursed (Jer 17:5) and have turned their faith into a work. These need to hear the Gospel of God's free sovereign particular grace and that is no strawman argument.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Anyone who says that they are saved because of their faith and not grace are still cursed (Jer 17:5) and have turned their faith into a work. These need to hear the Gospel of God's free sovereign particular grace and that is no strawman argument.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
What do you think free will is? It's not some carte blanche power to do whatever man desires. It's free to choose (when under grace), not free to create. Strewth!
I'm not doing anything to persevere till the end. I don't believe the false man centered works based gospel, which teaches that we must preserver till the end.
I believe the God centered, saved by His grace gospel. Where the Holy Spirit indwells us and keeps us from falling away. So our perseverance is a gift from God and it doesn't rely on mans ability and wisdom
I believe the God centered, saved by His grace gospel. Where the Holy Spirit indwells us and keeps us from falling away. So our perseverance is a gift from God and it doesn't rely on mans ability and wisdom
You need to work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling.
Not mine! Your own!
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in
my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work
out your salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12
Sounds to me that you don't really know if you are saved.
If you did? You would not be asking such a question.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,
but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son
and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” John 6:38-40
Jesus was saying that once you are saved.... even if you doubt your salvation?
He will lose none of all the Father gives to Him. None....
The Father is not going to give His beloved Son a believer whom later will be taken away from Him.
In Christ....
Not "free" will. We are not born with free will.
But, we are given by grace a "freed" will! (freed by God's power of grace)!
When God wants to in drawing us, the power of God grace suppresses our flesh's dominance over our soul.
While that grace is being applied in that manner?
That person's soul is being freed up to think outside of the tyranny of the fallen nature's depravity.
Keep in mind.
God saved your soul.
Not your body.
Your body has been crucified with Christ.
Your soul must live for God by faith!
God sees your depraved flesh as being crucified and destined for a garbage dump.
Your soul now is free to think with truth as long as you keep being filled with the Spirit.
grace and peace ............
But, we are given by grace a "freed" will! (freed by God's power of grace)!
When God wants to in drawing us, the power of God grace suppresses our flesh's dominance over our soul.
While that grace is being applied in that manner?
That person's soul is being freed up to think outside of the tyranny of the fallen nature's depravity.
Keep in mind.
God saved your soul.
Not your body.
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved
me and gave Himself for me. " Galatians 2:20
Your body has been crucified with Christ.
Your soul must live for God by faith!
God sees your depraved flesh as being crucified and destined for a garbage dump.
Your soul now is free to think with truth as long as you keep being filled with the Spirit.
grace and peace ............
Your claims are both logically unsound and logically invalid.
You are straw-manning the free will position, and arguing against a position free willers do not hold..
Will is the same thing as desire.
Who is claiming that God cannot interfere with man's will. Human's influence other humans' desires all the time. Advertising relies on that skill.
We do not have to be omniscient or omnipotent to influence someone's will.
Nor do we have to be influencing someone's will continuously, in order to be able to influence their will at opportune times to persuade them towards doing what accomplishes our will, or even occasionally coercing them into doing our will against their will.
Nor do I have to have complete control of someone's will in order to influence their will.
Nor, to have free will, does someone have to be immune to influence from another.
Since your argument relies on numerous premises that contradict these truth, your argument is specious.
If God's will includes His desire that people freely choose to desire to serve Him for them to be part of His family and to gain immortality, then He is doing according to His will by leaving wills free, and Dan 4:35 is true and accords with free will, if one defines free will biblically: as the freedom to decide for oneself what one wants and what one does not want.
You are straw-manning the free will position, and arguing against a position free willers do not hold..
Will is the same thing as desire.
Who is claiming that God cannot interfere with man's will. Human's influence other humans' desires all the time. Advertising relies on that skill.
We do not have to be omniscient or omnipotent to influence someone's will.
Nor do we have to be influencing someone's will continuously, in order to be able to influence their will at opportune times to persuade them towards doing what accomplishes our will, or even occasionally coercing them into doing our will against their will.
Nor do I have to have complete control of someone's will in order to influence their will.
Nor, to have free will, does someone have to be immune to influence from another.
Since your argument relies on numerous premises that contradict these truth, your argument is specious.
If God's will includes His desire that people freely choose to desire to serve Him for them to be part of His family and to gain immortality, then He is doing according to His will by leaving wills free, and Dan 4:35 is true and accords with free will, if one defines free will biblically: as the freedom to decide for oneself what one wants and what one does not want.