Predestination is misunderstood...

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Dec 18, 2023
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One more time for someone who has been resistant in grasping the specific meaning of words that Jesus used to describe specifically the ones who will say, Lord, Lord.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name,
and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice
lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

Those people had real supernatural power working for them!

You still can't see it?


‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name,
and in Your name cast out demons,
and in Your name perform many miracles?


.........
And how do they do the will of the father.

Well its done by people listening to the life that lives in all unsaved people 😊

Screenshot_20240419-220214.png




Merci Au revoir

Don't forget to thank give me a gold medal for showing you a true calvinist
 
Dec 18, 2023
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I don't know who is and who isn't. I just know that everyone who says Lord, Lord isn't saved. In fact, Jesus says it's many.
I'm not judging anyone personally. I'm just repeating what He said.
It's the one who does the will of the father.

Which means anyone 😊

 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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They still affirmed the gospel to be true. And that's what I was addressing.
I’m thinking that they (the tares) just don’t get it; they don’t understand the Gospel. Why? … because they have no ears to hear. Consider the parable of the sower:

Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: "Behold, a sower went out to sow. "And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. "Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. "But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. "And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. "But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

- Matthew 13:3-9
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 3:10-11 NAS)

Verse 11 like much of the NC writing about Jesus elides the verb and/or the article between Jesus and Christ. But the foundation of the Gospel - the only foundation - is Jesus is [the] Christ.

This requires that we understand what "the Christ" is. We know who it is, but many don't seem to know what it is and what this title requires of men. Once understood, we can build from there.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
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One more time for someone who has been resistant in grasping the specific meaning of words that Jesus used to describe specifically the ones who will say, Lord, Lord.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name,
and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

Those people had real supernatural power working for them!

You still can't see it?


‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name,
and in Your name cast out demons,
and in Your name perform many miracles?


.........
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
Jesus said their acts that you refer to as “Supernatural,” were acts of “Lawlessness.”
Jesus said, “You can do nothing without me.” Apparently the foundation or motivation for these acts they performed, were done for self recognition, and not for the glory of God.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,819
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I’m thinking that they (the tares) just don’t get it; they don’t understand the Gospel. Why? … because they have no ears to hear. Consider the parable of the sower:

Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: "Behold, a sower went out to sow. "And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. "Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. "But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. "And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. "But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

- Matthew 13:3-9
A child can understand the Gospel and give mental assent to it. All my children understand the Gospel. Not all are saved. Why? Because God has yet in grace to come to them and make Himself known to them. When He does, they will be converted.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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A child can understand the Gospel and give mental assent to it. All my children understand the Gospel. Not all are saved. Why? Because God has yet in grace to come to them and make Himself known to them. When He does, they will be converted.
I don’t think that the parable of the sower is referring to young children. Did you understand the teaching of the parable?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I don’t think that the parable of the sower is referring to young children. Did you understand the teaching of the parable?
Yes. But the original post I responded to dealt with a situation of someone being able to understand the Gospel and affirming it, yet are not saved.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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Yes. But the original post I responded to dealt with a situation of someone being able to understand the Gospel and affirming it, yet are not saved.
affirming it? What do you mean exactly? Not believing it?
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Seems like Romans 1:21 says everyone knows God but not all do what God requires of men.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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So then they are unbelievers, right?
Perhaps. I don't know who is saved or not. I can make functional judgments concerning people, but don't know for sure. My only point was that there are people who understand the Gospel, believe it to be truth, but aren't saved.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
Jesus said their acts that you refer to as “Supernatural,” were acts of “Lawlessness.”
Jesus said, “You can do nothing without me.” Apparently the foundation or motivation for these acts they performed, were done for self recognition, and not for the glory of God.

You and some others here are still missing the whole point....

How could they perform those supernatural acts? By what power if Jesus never knew them?

Satan has demons agree to have certain demons to remove themselves when a false teacher gives the command to do so.
It dupes the emotion driven people to believing he is a man of God - who then inundates them with false teachings.

Same with healings. We see in the book of Job that demonic power can induce illnesses. Same thing. Satan has demons
to agree to remove the illness upon command from some false teacher that Satan is promoting... The naive witnessing to this taking place then are suckers for learning false doctrine an giving money! MONEY!

Prophesy? The demonic realm has some insight into what is going on in the world because they are the proverbial 'fly on the wall' and can know what is coming down in the plans of men... or even someone's family. MONEY!
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
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Perhaps. I don't know who is saved or not. I can make functional judgments concerning people, but don't know for sure. My only point was that there are people who understand the Gospel, believe it to be truth, but aren't saved.
Huh? well then they are closing the door to Jesus. No ears to hear.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
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You and some others here are still missing the whole point....

How could they perform those supernatural acts? By what power if Jesus never knew them?

Satan has demons agree to have certain demons to remove themselves when a false teacher gives the command to do so.
It dupes the emotion driven people to believing he is a man of God - who then inundates them with false teachings.

Same with healings. We see in the book of Job that demonic power can induce illnesses. Same thing. Satan has demons
to agree to remove the illness upon command from some false teacher that Satan is promoting... The naive witnessing to this taking place then are suckers for learning false doctrine an giving money! MONEY!

Prophesy? The demonic realm has some insight into what is going on in the world because they are the proverbial 'fly on the wall' and can know what is coming down in the plans of men... or even someone's family. MONEY!
You just answered your own question.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
You and some others here are still missing the whole point....

How could they perform those supernatural acts? By what power if Jesus never knew them?

Satan has demons agree to have certain demons to remove themselves when a false teacher gives the command to do so.
It dupes the emotion driven people to believing he is a man of God - who then inundates them with false teachings.

Same with healings. We see in the book of Job that demonic power can induce illnesses. Same thing. Satan has demons
to agree to remove the illness upon command from some false teacher that Satan is promoting... The naive witnessing to this taking place then are suckers for learning false doctrine an giving money! MONEY!

Prophesy? The demonic realm has some insight into what is going on in the world because they are the proverbial 'fly on the wall' and can know what is coming down in the plans of men... or even someone's family. MONEY!
Yes. It’s the tares (Satan’s kids).
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
1,189
233
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Does Jesus even acknowledge or agree with the lawless ones that they did any of the things they say? Or did Jesus do what is quite typical of Him at times and just ignore what is said to Him and cut to the point? Or?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Of course they haven't truly believed on the Lord Jesus Christ or they would be saved. But they believe they have.
right ... there are some sitting in church who think they are saved but they aren't which (to me) brings the total depravity issue into question (and I'm not saying whether or not you agree with total depravity). if natural man is so totally depraved, no unbelievers would be sitting in church thinking they are saved ... according to the total depravity-ers they would not seek God at all. yet, there they are sitting in church thinking they're saved.




Cameron143 said:
The people spoken of in the verse have cast out demons, they have prophesied, and performed miracles. They profess to have done so in His name. They put most Christians to shame in their zeal. To say that they haven't given mental assent to the gospel is ludicrous to me.
If you attend church, there are no doubt some there who fall into this category. I have unsaved children who recognize that God has yet to do a work in their hearts but believe the Bible is true.
There is a difference between mental assent and belief/believing (faith).

Mental assent reads the Bible but does not believe what is written (did God really say) ... agrees there is a God Who created the universe but does not believe in God ... mental assenters can live with or without God, which is sad because if a person can live without God, they aren't living.
.