Predestination is misunderstood...

[tylerbones1313]

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Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God (Jesus Christ), which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)
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[Rufus]

To be honest with you-I have wasted many years in doing word studies instead of Bible study-Especially hermeneutics and the exegetical approach to Scriptures-and I hardly use my Lexicons and Dictionaries since the info is in the Grammatical construction of the TR.
I mean-did you know our salvation is in the PluralPerfect?

Shalom
J.

To answer your last question, "no", I did not. Nor do I know what "TR" means.

I believe I employ sound hermeneutical principles when interpreting scripture during my inductive studies of it. And word usage is an important part of hermeneutics. For example, there was a little discussion on the NT term "flesh", which has several different uses.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Get the chip off your shoulder and start learning instead of whining. I haven't twisted anything you say.

Grace is not you're get out of jail card either. 😊

 

[Johann]

To answer your last question, "no", I did not. Nor do I know what "TR" means.

I believe I employ sound hermeneutical principles when interpreting scripture during my inductive studies of it. And word usage is an important part of hermeneutics. For example, there was a little discussion on the NT term "flesh", which has several different uses.

Textus Receptus and if you want advice-try the Interlinear and not so much word studies per se-but the Syntax and Grammars and context- I am sure you are familiar with this.

As to the Sarx-I always look for context-both Old and New Testament.

FLESH (SARX)

This term is used most often by Paul in Galatians and its theological development in Romans. Scholars differ on how to characterize the different connotations of the term. There is surely some overlap in meanings. The following is merely an attempt to note the wide semantic field of the term.

A. the human body, John 1:14; Rom. 2:28; 1 Cor. 5:5; 7:28; 2 Cor. 4:11; 7:5; 12:7; Gal. 1:16; 2:16,20; 4:13; Phil. 1:22; Col. 1:22,24; 2:5; 1 Tim. 3:16

B. human descent, John 3:6; Rom. 1:3; 4:1; 9:3,5,8; 11:14; 1 Cor. 10:18; Gal. 4:23,29

C. the human person, Rom. 3:20; 7:5; 8:7-8; 1 Cor. 1:29; 2 Cor. 10:3; Gal. 2:16; 5:24

D. humanly speaking, John 8:15; 1 Cor. 1:26; 2 Cor. 1:12; 5:16; 10:2; Gal. 6:12

E. human weakness, Rom. 6:19; 7:18; 8:5-6,9; 2 Cor. 10:4; Gal. 3:3; 5:13,16,19-21; Col. 2:18

F. hostility of humans toward God, related to the consequences of the Fall, Rom. 7:14; 13:14; 1 Cor. 3:1,3; Eph. 2:3; Col. 2:18; 1 Pet. 2:11; 1 John 2:16



It must be emphasized that "flesh" is not viewed as evil in the NT, as it is in Greek thought. For the Greek philosophers, "flesh" was the source of human problems; death freed one from its influence. But in the NT, "flesh" is the battle ground of the spiritual conflict (cf. Eph. 6:10-18), yet is neutral. One can use the physical body for good or evil.

Shalom
J.

 

[Dino246]

Grace is not you're get out of jail card either. 😊

The word is "your", and your comment is irrelevant.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

And quite clearly Grace must be present in the person, to whom have been saved By Grace.

Scripture emphasizes God's grace as unconditional, not dependent on the presence of "grace" within the individual.

• Grace as God's initiative, not ours: Ephesians 2:8-9 clarifies, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no one should boast." Salvation is a gift received by faith, not earned through any inherent "grace" within ourselves.
• God's love extends to all: John 3:16 proclaims, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." This verse emphasizes God's universal love, not a selective one based on individuals possessing "grace."
• Human response is necessary, but not a prerequisite: Romans 10:9-10 explains, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." While faith and confession are essential for salvation, they don't imply the presence of "grace" as a prerequisite in the individual.

While the emphasis in this statement might seem to be on grace, it actually shifts it onto human qualities, suggesting that individuals need some inherent "grace" to be saved. Instead, the biblical message emphasizes God's unconditional grace offered freely to all through Jesus Christ. Our response of faith allows us to receive this gift, not the other way around.

Quite clearly God's grace is given because he's kind, not because he gives his grace as an unmerited favor.

The word "grace" in the Bible often translates from the Greek word "charis," which emphasizes the concept of unmerited favor. Here are some key biblical passages that highlight this aspect of grace:

• Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no one should boast." This verse clearly states that salvation comes through grace, not by our own efforts, making it a gift, not something earned.
• Romans 3:23-24: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Here, justification (being declared righteous by God) is presented as a free gift through grace, not something we deserve

While grace is unmerited, it doesn't diminish God's kindness. Imagine a kind king who pardons a prisoner. The pardon isn't because the prisoner deserved it, but because of the king's kindness and desire for mercy. Similarly, God's grace flows from his immense love and desire for our salvation.

And only the remnant will be saved.

Limited Interpretation: This statement often stems from a specific interpretation of certain verses, particularly in the Old Testament, where God speaks of "a remnant" being saved from judgment or exile. However, these verses are primarily addressing specific historical contexts and shouldn't be generalized to apply to the entire concept of salvation in the New Testament.

Universal Love and Sacrifice: The New Testament emphasizes God's love for all people (John 3:16) and Jesus' sacrifice for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). Passages like Romans 10:9 ("whoever") and 1 Timothy 2:4 ("who desires all people to be saved") highlight the universality of God's offer of salvation, not a limitation to a select few.

Free Will and Response: The Bible acknowledges human free will and the importance of responding to God's grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). While God desires everyone to be saved, individuals have the choice to accept or reject his offer.

Focus on Faith: The emphasis in the New Testament is on faith in Christ as the path to salvation, not on being part of a predetermined group. Passages like Romans 10:9 and John 1:12 emphasize that whoever believes and confesses their faith in Jesus can be saved.
Therefore, while the Bible occasionally uses the term "remnant" in specific historical contexts, it doesn't support the idea that only a limited number of people will be saved. The message of the New Testament emphasizes God's universal love, Christ's sacrifice for all, and the importance of individual faith and response.

Will grace save sinners who are in hell 🤔

The answer is clearly no.

So why is this.

Well it's because Grace did not save these sinners before they went to hell.

So why is this.

Well many will be called but few will be chosen.

Well why is this.

Well because God's grace is sufficient.

Why will many be called.

Because God's gives his grace to all, (mercy).

Why will many not be saved By that mercy (grace).

Because few will be chosen.

Why.

Well God's grace is sufficient 😊

 

[Rufus]

Gods Grace will stand upright when his son sends sinners to hell.

But as we know he will take no pleasure in it, because is grace is kind and sufficient for him, to stand upright as he casts the ungodly into the pit. 😊

For it is his grace you have been saved, not thou own grace. Less anyone should boast.

His undeserving love is his love is his undeserving love, and not thou own.

His love is undeserving love, because his love is kind (Grace).

His love is only undeserving to thou when your love is also undeserving to thee.

That is the gospel.

Only in your pipe dreams.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The word is "your", and your comment is irrelevant.

Your still a first class victimiser.

And the wages for sin is death.

No not irrelevant.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Only in your pipe dreams.

not only is God's grace sufficient but so is his grave

 

[tylerbones1313]

Well many will be called but few will be chosen.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It doesn't necessarily refer to predestination, the idea that God predetermines who will be saved. Here's why:

Context of the Parable: This verse comes from the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where a king throws a banquet and invites many guests. Some refuse, while others come unprepared. The "chosen" refers to those who attend appropriately dressed, symbolizing those who accept God's invitation and live according to his teachings.
Focus on Response: The parable emphasizes the importance of human response to God's invitation. It's not about a predetermined fate, but about actively accepting God's grace.
Universality of God's Love: The Bible emphasizes God's love for all people (John 3:16). This verse in Matthew doesn't contradict that message. It simply highlights the importance of accepting God's offer.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It doesn't necessarily refer to predestination, the idea that God predetermines who will be saved. Here's why:

Context of the Parable: This verse comes from the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where a king throws a banquet and invites many guests. Some refuse, while others come unprepared. The "chosen" refers to those who attend appropriately dressed, symbolizing those who accept God's invitation and live according to his teachings.
Focus on Response: The parable emphasizes the importance of human response to God's invitation. It's not about a predetermined fate, but about actively accepting God's grace.
Universality of God's Love: The Bible emphasizes God's love for all people (John 3:16). This verse in Matthew doesn't contradict that message. It simply highlights the importance of accepting God's offer.

It's described as the wedding feast in the parable, because it's a celebration where the people who are saved By Grace, will celebrate with the lord.

Why will many not be invited to the wedding feast.

Well they where all called,

But they never Got chosen.

Not getting Chosen is because when they where called by God's Grace, it never saved them.

 

[tylerbones1313]

But they never Got chosen.

They got the wedding invitation just like everyone else. If they weren't chosen its because they chose not to come. The entirety of the earth's human population can be chosen if they wanted to come. But sad reality is most will not.

 

[Dino246]

Your still a first class victimiser.

The word is "you're". It's a contraction of "you are". When you are speaking in the second person about a belonging, you would use the word, "your".

You're apparently unaware of these facts as your use of the correct terms is sparse.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

They got the wedding invitation just like everyone else. If they weren't chosen its because they chose not to come. The entirety of the earth's human population can be chosen if they wanted to come. But sad reality is most will not.

No only the true followers of Christ will remain invited.

Not because they decide not to come.

Same as Titus, Gods grace will call all to salvation.

But not all will be saved By the call of grace.

Why well.

Not all will be chosen

Why well only the true followers will have grace. ( The elect).

Gods grace is given to all, but not all are saved By God's grace.

Which makes God's grace something that should grow in your heart.

If it doesn't, you get rejected, and you don't get invited.

 

[tylerbones1313]

No only the true followers of Christ will remain invited.

Not because they decide not to come.

Not because they decide not to come.

True followers of Christ wouldn't choose not to come.

 

[Dino246]

No only the true followers of Christ will remain invited.

Not because they decide not to come.

Same as Titus, Gods grace will call all to salvation.

But not all will be saved By the call of grace.

Why well.

Not all will be chosen

Why well only the true followers will have grace. ( The elect).

Gods grace is given to all, but not all are saved By God's grace.

Which makes God's grace something that should grow in your heart.

If it doesn't, you get rejected, and you don't get invited.

People don't get "uninvited". God invites everyone, but many reject the invitation. The grace is both the invitation and the unmerited favour of salvation in Christ's blood. Grace should indeed grow in us who have believed in Christ, but the grace that grows in us is not the grace that has saved us. We are saved BEFORE we grow in grace.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

People don't get "uninvited". God invites everyone, but many reject the invitation. The grace is both the invitation and the unmerited favour of salvation in Christ's blood. Grace should indeed grow in us who have believed in Christ, but the grace that grows in us is not the grace that has saved us. We are saved BEFORE we grow in grace.

They don't get uninvited By Christ. They uninvite themselves.

Jesus will say I never knew you, because many will say lord haven't we done this that and the other in your name.

And Jesus will say I never knew you.

It's as simple as that.

They had there chance to get to Know him, but they followed the devil and not Jesus.

Jesus gave them all a chance to follow him, but they just kept taking unmerited favours for themselves,. Like the robber who robs the blind.

It's like the drugged up addict who stands up in court and says oh sorry mr judge, I never knew what I was doing because I was addicted to drugs.

The judge lets him go with a lesser punishment than jail.

And the very same day he starts smoking drugs and robbing the blind again, the same day he is released.

Ah but he says it's ok in his mind ,because I can be like the thief on the cross, I can receive salvation just before I die.

Yeah like sod it he says to people who have given there life's to Christ, who are they people, there nobody like me.

Yeah like sod the suffering and the poor.

Yeah sod the gullible.

Yeah sod people who are as not as smart as you.

Yeah like you know, Gods knows I've got to get what I can whilst can.

Yeah yeah yeah,

She love me yeah yeah yeah.

She love me she love me not.

Let's toss a coin,

Yeah yeah yeah, you know like yeah look at me and my shiny new car

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

True followers of Christ wouldn't choose not to come.

The true followers of Christ are already invited. All are called first, before there chosen.

But hey look at this follower of Christ, he also thinks he's invited to

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

People don't get "uninvited". God invites everyone, but many reject the invitation. The grace is both the invitation and the unmerited favour of salvation in Christ's blood. Grace should indeed grow in us who have believed in Christ, but the grace that grows in us is not the grace that has saved us. We are saved BEFORE we grow in grace.

it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter heaven, says the lord.

 

[Rufus]

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It doesn't necessarily refer to predestination, the idea that God predetermines who will be saved. Here's why:

Context of the Parable: This verse comes from the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where a king throws a banquet and invites many guests. Some refuse, while others come unprepared. The "chosen" refers to those who attend appropriately dressed, symbolizing those who accept God's invitation and live according to his teachings.
Focus on Response: The parable emphasizes the importance of human response to God's invitation. It's not about a predetermined fate, but about actively accepting God's grace.
Universality of God's Love: The Bible emphasizes God's love for all people (John 3:16). This verse in Matthew doesn't contradict that message. It simply highlights the importance of accepting God's offer.

Luke's version of the parable is even more intriguing than Matthew's, for it reveals an aspect that isn't in the latter's account.

Luke 14:23
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
KJV

The Gr. "anagkazo" is a strong word meaning literally to compel, constrain. This speaks to the power of effectual grace -- or more precisely to the inner, effectual call v. only the outward, ineffectual call.