Predestination or free will?
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Alright everyone, you are all overthinking on this topic. Yes, the elect were called to serve from before the foundation of the world. Predestination is real. Still it does not take away our choices. It just states that God knows our choices, good and bad. A person can serve the Lord all his life and draw back sometime by persecution or maybe bitterness. Like Solomon did. We shouldn't even think about what God knows and just work at obeying Him. Don't give yourself a choice tomorrow, fix your heart on God and serve Him though He slay you.
All you that say our works will not save us: that is true. But if we are truly saved our lives will have works. True faith God will put to work. What have you done for God lately? What has God done through you lately?
All you that say our works will not save us: that is true. But if we are truly saved our lives will have works. True faith God will put to work. What have you done for God lately? What has God done through you lately?
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And yet the elect sin even though you claim they are "slaves of Christ" and God is okay with their sin because they are elect? 
We are at war with our flesh, which is still corrupt util we receive our glorified bodies.
So there's a huge difference between the elect and the reprobate, one is at war with sin and the other is in love with sin.
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Yes, you sin just as the reprobate sin. In fact, someone could conclude that your sin is greater than the reprobate if, in fact, "that's all they can do, they don't have any power against it, where as we sin because we fall into sin unwittingly by accident. We are not given over to a life of sin, without fighting against the temptation".
1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it
First God limits trials/temptations so you are not tempted above your ability to endure it.
And God provides an escape.
For you to infer that you are "at war with sin" and yet you still sin (even though God provides a way to escape and God limits the trials so you are not tempted above your ability to endure) is pure fallacy on your part. You sin because you ignore the escape so you may enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season.
1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it
First God limits trials/temptations so you are not tempted above your ability to endure it.
And God provides an escape.
For you to infer that you are "at war with sin" and yet you still sin (even though God provides a way to escape and God limits the trials so you are not tempted above your ability to endure) is pure fallacy on your part. You sin because you ignore the escape so you may enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season.
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E
Oh boy. You need to learn what sin is my friend
Anyone and everyone sins for one purpose. they are trying to fulfill the flesh.
When a non believer chooses to serve self over the needs of others, they sin, because they want to
When a believer chooses to serve self over the needs of others, they do so because they want to.
a non believer can even love others, Just not the way God did, as scripture says, Even gentiles can do good. who have no law.
Romans 2:14
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Anyone and everyone sins for one purpose. they are trying to fulfill the flesh.
When a non believer chooses to serve self over the needs of others, they sin, because they want to
When a believer chooses to serve self over the needs of others, they do so because they want to.
a non believer can even love others, Just not the way God did, as scripture says, Even gentiles can do good. who have no law.
Romans 2:14
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
You are both right to a point. Yes, we are at war with our sinful natures and we will slip and sin. See answer below.
You are lumping occasional sin with apostasy. Those that seek the way of the spirit will usually check the sin while it is in their head, before carrying it out. There is no condemnation for them (Rom. 8:1).
Sometimes they will actually commit the sin when their guard is down but as soon as they recognize it as sin, they repent and stop. Still no condemnation.
Now apostasy is different. Here, self justification is the culprit and the devil is very good helping with that. Once you start justifying yourself you will soon need to start making excuses for your actions. The effect starts snowballing, sin then cover up, sin and cover up, unless you can or will turn it around you become apostate.
You are lumping occasional sin with apostasy. Those that seek the way of the spirit will usually check the sin while it is in their head, before carrying it out. There is no condemnation for them (Rom. 8:1).
Sometimes they will actually commit the sin when their guard is down but as soon as they recognize it as sin, they repent and stop. Still no condemnation.
Now apostasy is different. Here, self justification is the culprit and the devil is very good helping with that. Once you start justifying yourself you will soon need to start making excuses for your actions. The effect starts snowballing, sin then cover up, sin and cover up, unless you can or will turn it around you become apostate.
Some of Gods elect commit murder, adultery and all kinds of sin but they don't lose their salvation if they repent. Just read your Bible and you will see plenty of cases. God know that we will continue to fall into sin, that's why Jesus paid for all of our past, present and future sins. You would know all of this is true if you studied your Bible
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Apostasy is when someone walks away from their religious convictions. We're not speaking of a believer who falls into apostasy.
Danny1988 is referring to a believer who sins and an unbeliever (not an apostate) who sins.
According to Danny1988 his sin is not the same as the sin of the unbeliever because the unbeliever was created by God solely for the purpose of sinning.
My point is that if that is the case, then Danny1988's sins are even worse than the unbeliever because (1) God limits temptation in Danny1988's life so that he can overcome the temptation to sin (but he sins anyway); and (2) God makes a way to escape so that he won't sin (but he sins anyway).
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Danny1988 is referring to a believer who sins and an unbeliever (not an apostate) who sins.
According to Danny1988 his sin is not the same as the sin of the unbeliever because the unbeliever was created by God solely for the purpose of sinning.
My point is that if that is the case, then Danny1988's sins are even worse than the unbeliever because (1) God limits temptation in Danny1988's life so that he can overcome the temptation to sin (but he sins anyway); and (2) God makes a way to escape so that he won't sin (but he sins anyway).
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
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............. Predestination is real.
If you are speaking of G-d and scriptures...it is not.
Still it does not take away our choices.
Predestination would take away ALL individual choices.
It just states that God knows our choices, good and bad.
G-d's knowledge of our future....has nothing to do with predestination.
A person can serve the Lord all his life and draw back sometime by persecution or maybe bitterness. Like Solomon did.
Not predestination or knowledge of the future...it is BACKSLIDING...referenced in SCRIPTURES.
.............All you that say our works will not save us: that is true. But if we are truly saved our lives will have works. True faith God will put to work. What have you done for God lately? What has God done through you lately?
If you are speaking of G-d and scriptures...it is not.
Still it does not take away our choices.
Predestination would take away ALL individual choices.
It just states that God knows our choices, good and bad.
G-d's knowledge of our future....has nothing to do with predestination.
A person can serve the Lord all his life and draw back sometime by persecution or maybe bitterness. Like Solomon did.
Not predestination or knowledge of the future...it is BACKSLIDING...referenced in SCRIPTURES.
.............All you that say our works will not save us: that is true. But if we are truly saved our lives will have works. True faith God will put to work. What have you done for God lately? What has God done through you lately?
Predestination is not comprehensible or compatible with scriptures, given G-d's plan of forgiveness and individual responsibility under His plan.
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My views
I see predestination as a “Blue print” of God’s Divine plan/purpose of His Will for our lives as we walk on this earth.
Predestination for a sinner,is the cross for God is a righteous Judge
For a believer, Gods predestination is His Divine/Will plan (formed before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world………..)
For our lives to which He knows we can accomplish.
As with the sinner, it is our Will to either follow or reject God’s Will. God cannot as with Satan force our Will, it must be our own decision (free Will)
The irony of it all, Jesus who is the Word who became flesh surrendered His Will to the Father: Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
God Bless
I see predestination as a “Blue print” of God’s Divine plan/purpose of His Will for our lives as we walk on this earth.
Predestination for a sinner,is the cross for God is a righteous Judge
For a believer, Gods predestination is His Divine/Will plan (formed before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world………..)
For our lives to which He knows we can accomplish.
As with the sinner, it is our Will to either follow or reject God’s Will. God cannot as with Satan force our Will, it must be our own decision (free Will)
The irony of it all, Jesus who is the Word who became flesh surrendered His Will to the Father: Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
God Bless
T
Alright everyone, you are all overthinking on this topic. Yes, the elect were called to serve from before the foundation of the world. Predestination is real. Still it does not take away our choices. It just states that God knows our choices, good and bad. A person can serve the Lord all his life and draw back sometime by persecution or maybe bitterness. Like Solomon did. We shouldn't even think about what God knows and just work at obeying Him. Don't give yourself a choice tomorrow, fix your heart on God and serve Him though He slay you.
All you that say our works will not save us: that is true. But if we are truly saved our lives will have works. True faith God will put to work. What have you done for God lately? What has God done through you lately?
All you that say our works will not save us: that is true. But if we are truly saved our lives will have works. True faith God will put to work. What have you done for God lately? What has God done through you lately?
T
book of life
therefore, predestination is true
ta da
free will exist
we can choose either to reject or place our faith in the gospel
God transcend time, so the book of life can be before, during, or after salvation, doesn't matter
predestination is true + free will exist = both
discussion over ...
... um, what is this about other topics like "sin" and all that?
therefore, predestination is true
ta da
free will exist
we can choose either to reject or place our faith in the gospel
God transcend time, so the book of life can be before, during, or after salvation, doesn't matter
predestination is true + free will exist = both
discussion over ...
... um, what is this about other topics like "sin" and all that?
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