predestination vs freewill
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Rogerg, I believe that we have no disagreement in our understanding of God's elect, and their eternal deliverance. The salvation scriptures had conflicting meanings to me and did not harmonize because I thought I was smart enough to understand them by my own entelect, until I denied my entelect at 62 years old and the Holy Spirit revealed the truth of the salvation scriptures as being "a deliverance" according to the Greek translation.
I believe the scriptures to teach that there is an eternal deliverance for God's elect, by the death of Jesus for their redemption, and there is a timely deliverance that the elect receive, as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works and repentance of sin by following God's commandments (Which is not eternal deliverance because their eternal deliverance has already been secured)
Because of the timely deliverance is why so many of God's elect believe that their good works are involved in their eternal salvation, because there is a deliverance (salvation that is not eternal) taught as a result of the elect's repentance of sin, and following God's commandments.
I believe Matt 7 of the two gates harmonizes with this truth. God's elect enter both of the gates. The wide gate being those that are believing, and teaching false doctrines because of their lack of knowledge of the mystery of the gospel, and the straight gate being those elect that have denied their own entelect of the scriptures and have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the truths that are hidden from the wise and prudent, of God's elect, who have not denied their own entelect, that go into the wide gate. All who enter both gates have security of their inheritance by Jesus's death.
I also believe that the scriptures teach that there will be a greater number who go to heaven than there is that go to hell. The gospel is "good news". We do receive the mercy of God for our sinful nature that we are burdened with, that warfare that we will struggle with until we go to our graves.
God's called pastors are instructed to preach the knowledge of the gospel to his lost sheep (those of God's elect that go into the wide gate) to deliver (save) them from their ignorance of God's righteousness, that he delivering them eternally by his sovereign grace. and not by their good works.
I believe the scriptures to teach that there is an eternal deliverance for God's elect, by the death of Jesus for their redemption, and there is a timely deliverance that the elect receive, as they sojourn here on earth, by their good works and repentance of sin by following God's commandments (Which is not eternal deliverance because their eternal deliverance has already been secured)
Because of the timely deliverance is why so many of God's elect believe that their good works are involved in their eternal salvation, because there is a deliverance (salvation that is not eternal) taught as a result of the elect's repentance of sin, and following God's commandments.
I believe Matt 7 of the two gates harmonizes with this truth. God's elect enter both of the gates. The wide gate being those that are believing, and teaching false doctrines because of their lack of knowledge of the mystery of the gospel, and the straight gate being those elect that have denied their own entelect of the scriptures and have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit, the truths that are hidden from the wise and prudent, of God's elect, who have not denied their own entelect, that go into the wide gate. All who enter both gates have security of their inheritance by Jesus's death.
I also believe that the scriptures teach that there will be a greater number who go to heaven than there is that go to hell. The gospel is "good news". We do receive the mercy of God for our sinful nature that we are burdened with, that warfare that we will struggle with until we go to our graves.
God's called pastors are instructed to preach the knowledge of the gospel to his lost sheep (those of God's elect that go into the wide gate) to deliver (save) them from their ignorance of God's righteousness, that he delivering them eternally by his sovereign grace. and not by their good works.
Yes and no.
Angels , similar to Lucifer, are/were the "host of heaven".
Lucifer is a specific type of heavenly host, a "Cherub".
These are seen as the 2 you find when you look at a artist's rendition of the "Ark of the Covenant".
-
-
Every angel that appears in the NT is seen as a Male, in human forum, and none have wings.
Angels have free will, and some chose to follow Lucifer, and became "demons".
According to Genesis, Angels can have sexual relations with humans.
Angels are not bound by time and space.
1.) How is a human different from the heavenly host, including Angels?
Genesis says that Man is "created in the image of God" .. made alive by the Spirit of God., and Angels are "ministering Spirits".
Jesus says of mankind......>"ye are gods", and He does not say this about Angels.
Angels can "fall" and are never born again.
"Man"..... are "adamic nature" "fallen" and can be born again.
Angels , similar to Lucifer, are/were the "host of heaven".
Lucifer is a specific type of heavenly host, a "Cherub".
These are seen as the 2 you find when you look at a artist's rendition of the "Ark of the Covenant".
-
-
Every angel that appears in the NT is seen as a Male, in human forum, and none have wings.
Angels have free will, and some chose to follow Lucifer, and became "demons".
According to Genesis, Angels can have sexual relations with humans.
Angels are not bound by time and space.
1.) How is a human different from the heavenly host, including Angels?
Genesis says that Man is "created in the image of God" .. made alive by the Spirit of God., and Angels are "ministering Spirits".
Jesus says of mankind......>"ye are gods", and He does not say this about Angels.
Angels can "fall" and are never born again.
"Man"..... are "adamic nature" "fallen" and can be born again.
Jacob, whom God changed his name to be called Israel, is representative of God's elect from every kindred, tongue and nation, not natural Israel. Only a remnant of Jacob/Israel have been revealed the knowledge of God's righteousness through the understanding of the gospel. These are depicted as those that find and enter the straight gate. This remnant, plus the rest of Jacob/Israel (the wide gate) have been secured a home in heaven by Christ's death.
There is destruction in believing and teaching a false doctrine. These, of God's elect, have been born again and believe that God is their spiritual Father, but have not been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them, that they are delivered by God's sovereign grace, without their good works. These are the ones (the lost sheep, God's elect), that Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach the knowledge of the gospel to deliver them from their ignorance.
Let me give you the simple understanding ....
The "narrow way", is this..... John 14 6. This is Jesus as the only way to the Father.......see ??? that is NARROW, because it THE only way.
The "broad way", as you verse actually teaches......is any OTHER way a person tries to find God, or become like God.
So, the "broad way", that "leads to destruction"...(hell then the lake of fire), is RELIGION, which is man's SELF EFFORT to join God or to ty to become God.
The "narrow way" is the GATE...........this is Jesus, as THE WAY... John 14:6
The "broad way" that leads to DESTRUCTION, ...is everything else, that is Religion. This can be water baptism, and commandment keeping......And why? Because those can't save you, as they are not "THE WAY" to God. John 14:6
The "narrow way", is this..... John 14 6. This is Jesus as the only way to the Father.......see ??? that is NARROW, because it THE only way.
The "broad way", as you verse actually teaches......is any OTHER way a person tries to find God, or become like God.
So, the "broad way", that "leads to destruction"...(hell then the lake of fire), is RELIGION, which is man's SELF EFFORT to join God or to ty to become God.
The "narrow way" is the GATE...........this is Jesus, as THE WAY... John 14:6
The "broad way" that leads to DESTRUCTION, ...is everything else, that is Religion. This can be water baptism, and commandment keeping......And why? Because those can't save you, as they are not "THE WAY" to God. John 14:6
I am sure that this is what you have been taught to believe. There is a simplicity in the scriptures to the remnant of God's elect people who have been revealed the knowledge of God's righteousness through the understanding of the gospel. These are a small portion of God's elect that find this truth by the revelation of the Holy Spirit depicted in the straight gate. These are the ones that believe Jesus saved them from their sins upon the cross by God's sovereign grace, without the help of their good works. John 8:30-32.
Yes and no.
Angels , similar to Lucifer, are/were the "host of heaven".
Lucifer is a specific type of heavenly host, a "Cherub".
These are seen as the 2 you find when you look at a artist's rendition of the "Ark of the Covenant".
-
-
Every angel that appears in the NT is seen as a Male, in human forum, and none have wings.
Angels have free will, and some chose to follow Lucifer, and became "demons".
According to Genesis, Angels can have sexual relations with humans.
Angels are not bound by time and space.
1.) How is a human different from the heavenly host, including Angels?
Genesis says that Man is "created in the image of God" .. made alive by the Spirit of God., and Angels are "ministering Spirits".
Jesus says of mankind......>"ye are gods", and He does not say this about Angels.
Angels can "fall" and are never born again.
"Man"..... are "adamic nature" "fallen" and can be born again.
Angels , similar to Lucifer, are/were the "host of heaven".
Lucifer is a specific type of heavenly host, a "Cherub".
These are seen as the 2 you find when you look at a artist's rendition of the "Ark of the Covenant".
-
-
Every angel that appears in the NT is seen as a Male, in human forum, and none have wings.
Angels have free will, and some chose to follow Lucifer, and became "demons".
According to Genesis, Angels can have sexual relations with humans.
Angels are not bound by time and space.
1.) How is a human different from the heavenly host, including Angels?
Genesis says that Man is "created in the image of God" .. made alive by the Spirit of God., and Angels are "ministering Spirits".
Jesus says of mankind......>"ye are gods", and He does not say this about Angels.
Angels can "fall" and are never born again.
"Man"..... are "adamic nature" "fallen" and can be born again.
Angels are sons of God.
No two ways about it.
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36
- nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
When we attain the resurrection, we also will be counted as sons of God like the angels.
JPT
Hi ForestGreenCook
I have only found one salvation identified in the Bible, and that is of eternal salvation through Christ.
I believe all of the attributes that Christian may come to possess, exhibit and grow in over time, occurs after one becomes saved/born again, and is a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. One of those attributes, and possibly the most important one after faith, is a desire to share the true Gospel. So to me, everything, including good works, emanate from, and by, that indwelling. However, to be able to correctly share the true Gospel, it first needs to be placed into our possession (through the Holy Spirit), otherwise we can only know and preach the false gospel.
[Eph 4:21-24 KJV]
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
[Eph 1:17 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
[Gal 5:22-23 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
\23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[Mat 13:16 KJV]
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
I have only found one salvation identified in the Bible, and that is of eternal salvation through Christ.
I believe all of the attributes that Christian may come to possess, exhibit and grow in over time, occurs after one becomes saved/born again, and is a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. One of those attributes, and possibly the most important one after faith, is a desire to share the true Gospel. So to me, everything, including good works, emanate from, and by, that indwelling. However, to be able to correctly share the true Gospel, it first needs to be placed into our possession (through the Holy Spirit), otherwise we can only know and preach the false gospel.
[Eph 4:21-24 KJV]
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
[Eph 1:17 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
[Gal 5:22-23 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
\23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[Mat 13:16 KJV]
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Thought these might might be applicable too:
[Luk 17:9-10 KJV]
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
[Luk 17:9-10 KJV]
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
