predestination vs freewill

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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It is a not a contradiction. Let me give you an example...

Say I'm standing in front of train tracks. I see a train coming up fast. Right before it passes me I KNOW that it WILL pass me. Now does my knowing this before it happens mean that the driver of that train did not have a free will choice to drive that train? Of course not.

Or again, if I hear the cookie jar rattle in the other room, I know I when I enter that room I will find a cookie in my daughter's mouth. I knew before she put the cookie in her mouth that she would, does that mean it was not her free will choice or actions? No.

Yes God knows all things, even before they happen. But just because He knows what we will choose does not mean we did not have a choice to make.
The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 will not, and even can not choose to obey spiritual things that he can not discern. Only those that God has given the new Spiritual life will choose to obey him.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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So we can make our own choice in regard to His will.. Just because He already knows if we are going to accept His will or reject His will does not mean we are unable to make that choice.. For His judgement of humanity to be Justified We must have the free will to either embrace the will of God as truth and good or reject the will of God as lies and evil.... Whilst we can never conform and do the will of God 100% because we are faulty human beings with a sin problem we can still believe that Gods will is good and true and trust in His solution to our sin problem..

The next scripture hints at the reality of the break between our time and Gods time..

2 Peter 3:KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Note it does not just leave it as One God day is as 1000 years to us.. But it says also that 1000 years are as one day to us.. Gods time is totally un-geared to our universe time..
The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will never choose to serve a Spiritual God that he can not discern, until God has given him the new birth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
Jun 12, 2021
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There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.
https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. Man is unable to save himself (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18).

Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, he is unable to initiate a response to God; therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation. Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not based on man’s response (Romans 8:29-30;9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6, 11-12) because man is unable to respond, nor does he want to.

Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and for whom Christ died will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25).

Irresistible Grace - Those whom God elected He draws to Himself through irresistible grace. God makes man willing to come to Him. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37, 44; 10:16).

Perseverance of the Saints - The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14).

After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff

Read 10 Commandments for a list.

Bottom link is gospel.

https://christianchat.com/testimoni...s-are-all-sins-except-christian-stuff.199651/
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,921
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There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.
better to see obendiance vs disobedience
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,650
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The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, will never choose to serve a Spiritual God that he can not discern, until God has given him the new birth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I believe you have the Holy Spirits introduction to a person at the wrong time.. The person Must first Believe and accept Jesus as LORD and Messiah and then the Holy Spirit comes into them ( indwelling) as in the baptism of the Holy Spirit..

The Holy Spirit starts to work upon an individual before this event, ( from the outside if you like) moving them before they actually make the decision to accept the Word of God.. The Holy Spirit causes the lost individual to be convicted by preaching of the Gospel..
 
Apr 12, 2021
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There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.
Proverbs 3:5-6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding...

It's as simple and as complicated as that.
 

Daniel87

New member
Mar 27, 2021
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Perhaps this is one of the things that cannot be understood with our human intellect.

Free will is Satanic. The moment we have to choose, we are not with God. When we are with God we do not need to choose; we know what the righteous path is and don’t even doubt it. When we are rooted in Chist there are no choices to make.

Perhaps there is predestination, and free will in our lives is also predestined. God has control over Satan and puts a limit to how much Satan can test us. Also, Satan will end up in Hell despite of his free will to disobey God. Free will puts us under trials and as a result, our faith is strengthened, because we are predestined to know God.
 
Jun 30, 2021
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Sin does not necessitate free will

You are acting from a divisive mind because you believe divisive things

That is why you have to be shown unity

Quantum field theory describes everything that has or will ever happen

You are something happening

Your actions are necessarily going to be shaped by what you interact with

Repent means return

Stop separating yourself from God
 
Jun 30, 2021
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Sinning suggests you chose your views but they come from those around you

There is nothing original to you at all
 
Jun 30, 2021
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Clinging to them creates the ego

It is not really there, just a veil hiding divinity
 
Jun 30, 2021
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For the record, I uphold hard determinism
 
Apr 12, 2021
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Imagine all the possible genetic outcomes in the world. Now imagine God knowing in advance your specific genetic make-up. Daunting, to say the least.

Imagine this: How does a child from Nigeria and a child from America, the two enjoying their respective childhood neighborhood playgrounds at the same time, come together and form a friendship, when for twenty years the two were separated by oceans, continents, time zones, and cultures that neither of them could have ever imagined would be a bridge to their ultimate marriage. God knows. It's as simple and as complicated as that.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,433
880
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London
There is a tension in my mind in attempt to grasp these. If there is freewill, it means your actions determine your outcome. If there is predestination, it means no matter what you do, you cant alter the outcome. But both above are mentioned in bible, which contradicts one another. Someone pls enlighten me thanks.
Predestination only concerns the church, it does not concern even salvation per se. God chose us [the church] in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.

Paul says it beautifully when he says "all things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called to His purposes"

It does not matter whether you had cornflakes for breakfast this morning or wheatabix, whether you cleaned your teeth or not [I hope you did] whether you missed your bus ... predestination has nothing to do that [unless God wants it to] but whatever happens it will work together with everything else for good.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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Predestination only concerns the church, it does not concern even salvation per se. God chose us [the church] in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace.
Precious friend, correct! Only The Body Of CHRIST, And, also, don't forget:

Rom 8:29-30:
"
For whom HE Did Foreknow, HE also did predestinate to be conformed to
the image of His SON, that HE might be The Firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom HE did predestinate, them HE also called: and whom HE
called, them HE also justified: and whom HE justified, them HE also glorified."

What A Wonderful And Great God we serve, eh?

Be Blessed!
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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Free will is Satanic. The moment we have to choose, we are not with God.
let's see now

so if we CHOOSE to accept Christ we are satanic?

plenty of Calvinism vs not Calvinism threads round here these parts but that is the first time I have read choice expressed as a devilish act

huh
 

SophieT

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2020
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When we are with God we do not need to choose; we know what the righteous path is and don’t even doubt it. When we are rooted in Chist there are no choices to make.
oh sorry. I just thought this deserved its own answer

we make choices all day long. there is no such things as no choices to make. the Bible says the opposite.

where on earth do you get this view of things from?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
1,433
880
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London
oh sorry. I just thought this deserved its own answer

we make choices all day long. there is no such things as no choices to make. the Bible says the opposite.

where on earth do you get this view of things from?
Before we are saved we may make choices but we do not have the power or ability to act upon our choice, we have a will but it is not free but it is in bondage . Paul says we were slaves to sin, in bondage to elemental spirits.

Jesus must set us free before we can act upon any choice we may make towards God and the salvation He offers.

If we are saved Jesus has set us free, not to do our own will but to do of His good will ... before we were saved this was impossible.