Premarital Sex

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B

Brackenzee

Banned
#21
Oct 17, 2009
325
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#21
I'm not testing this boundary in my own behavior--I'm a virgin, actually. I was just offering a counter point to your point.

watchmen said:
Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

For starters, but of course you will either ignore or explain this away.
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Not explaining it away at all. Marriage is great, honorable and undefiling of the bed. This is true. I would like to point out that Paul contrasts this with whore mongers and adulterers, things that destroyed marriages to be sure. But simply having sex with the woman you plan to marry prior to the marriage is not the antithesis in that verse.
 
Elijah23

Elijah23

Banned
#22
Oct 23, 2009
366
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#22
Brackenzee said:
I'm not testing this boundary in my own behavior--I'm a virgin, actually. I was just offering a counter point to your point.


Not explaining it away at all. Marriage is great, honorable and undefiling of the bed. This is true. I would like to point out that Paul contrasts this with whore mongers and adulterers, things that destroyed marriages to be sure. But simply having sex with the woman you plan to marry prior to the marriage is not the antithesis in that verse.
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About the worst mistake a person can make, I believe, is to lose their virginity before they marry. You’ve got to trust me on this.
 
B

Brackenzee

Banned
#23
Oct 17, 2009
325
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#23
...I can think of plenty of mistakes a good deal worse than that. Not to say that it's good, just that I'd worry far less, to borrow a personal anecdote, about my brother if he were boinking a girl but could hold down a good job than I do now, when he's single and completely irresponsible. And that's not even getting into things like murder or hard drugs.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#24
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#24
It's a complex subject that has evolved over time but the general christian viewpoint is that it is included in the definition of "fornication". The problem with pre marital sex was that it was seen to erode the definition of marriage, rather than being an actual "thou shalt not" command in God's law.

Originally, pre-marital sex seemed to be ignored, or even condoned as long as it led to marriage, although it violated (Jewish) customs. Although the word for fornication covers a wide range of perversions, not merely pre-marital sex, pre-marital sex wasn't considered as much a sin as the more deviant sexual acts. Strictly speaking there's no actual law against it in the Torah, so it can't technically be called a sin by those standards. However it's well known that Jewish culture in the time of Jesus frowned upon pre-marital sex as being immoral, and Paul's statements about the importance of people marrying emphasise that pre-marital sex was frowned upon by the apostles. In summary a) pre marital sex between two people who will get married is "wrong" (and presuming they were both virgins), but nothing as wrong as the perverse sexual acts described sinful elsewhere, like adultery, buggery, homosexuality etc , b) sex between two people who don't or won't get married is "more wrong", and is more a mockery or degradation of the covenant of marriage than an actual sin punishable by the standards of the 10 commandments.
 
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J

Jordan9

Guest
#25
#25
Anything that deviates from God's plan for us is a sin, premarital sex included. Thank God (literally!) for grace.
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#26
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#26
watchmen said:
I would say you #1 Have no clue what Jesus was actually teaching, and #2 You not a Christian at all.
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ok I believe Jesus meant no sex before marriage, but I also believe that Jesus meant not to judge one another, when He said he who is without sin cast the first stone. looks like we finally found that one who, can cast the first stone. I am only surprise that it took this long, If you break one, ye have broken them all.
 
M

miktre

Guest
#27
#27
Thaddaeus said:
ok I believe Jesus meant no sex before marriage, but I also believe that Jesus meant not to judge one another, when He said he who is without sin cast the first stone. looks like we finally found that one who, can cast the first stone. I am only surprise that it took this long, If you break one, ye have broken them all.
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Can you find a difference between judging that which is sin and judging someone who is a sinner.
Do you think watchen judges that which is sin or the sinner?
 
B

Brackenzee

Banned
#28
Oct 17, 2009
325
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#28
There's a difference...

Judging the sin is "Hey, dude, stop cheating that old women out of her money. It's wrong." while judging the sinner is closer to what Watchmen does. "You're not really a Christian becasue you don't believe the same things I believe," or "You're going to hell, you sick freak!"
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#29
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#29
I've read nothing from Brackenzee to suggest that he's not Xtian.
 
A

ariannaaa

Guest
#30
#30
watchmen said:
I would say you #1 Have no clue what Jesus was actually teaching, and #2 You not a Christian at all.
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I agree with what you said about sexual immorality, however, i don't think it is anyone's place to judge the heart of another.

If the person is a Christian and you make that presumption.. its offensive and going to sow discord.
If the person isn't a Christian and you make that presumption.. thats not showing him Christ's love and I doubt he'll want to convert after that.

So its a lose-lose.
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#31
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#31
Brackenzee said:
There's a difference...

Judging the sin is "Hey, dude, stop cheating that old women out of her money. It's wrong." while judging the sinner is closer to what Watchmen does. "You're not really a Christian becasue you don't believe the same things I believe," or "You're going to hell, you sick freak!"
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Are you not casting stones at the stone thrower?
 
Elijah23

Elijah23

Banned
#32
Oct 23, 2009
366
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#32
Brackenzee said:
I'm not testing this boundary in my own behavior--I'm a virgin, actually. I was just offering a counter point to your point.


Not explaining it away at all. Marriage is great, honorable and undefiling of the bed. This is true. I would like to point out that Paul contrasts this with whore mongers and adulterers, things that destroyed marriages to be sure. But simply having sex with the woman you plan to marry prior to the marriage is not the antithesis in that verse.
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When you wait to have sex before you marry, you and your fiancée prove to each other that you can, and will, resist sexual temptation. When you have sex before you marry, you spend your entire lives not being sure your spouse is being faithful to you.
 
Elijah23

Elijah23

Banned
#33
Oct 23, 2009
366
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#33
Brackenzee said:
...I can think of plenty of mistakes a good deal worse than that. Not to say that it's good, just that I'd worry far less, to borrow a personal anecdote, about my brother if he were boinking a girl but could hold down a good job than I do now, when he's single and completely irresponsible. And that's not even getting into things like murder or hard drugs.
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You are twenty-two years of age. Do you suppose you still have things to learn?
 
A

aprilrenee1

Guest
#34
#34
First....what I know to believe...

Pre-marital sex yokes two souls together, God doesnt see them as married...but there is a deep spiritual bond.
Watchmen, you have no right to call people christian or non christian.

--As for me....thoughts? I think....it is good to wait til marraige...that way something very very intamate and special is shared. You all legalized this....its about the heart, two people....who LOVE eachother so much to share that bond. that joining....of a union, to stick together. God created this FOR good...for two people.

----and...if you cant wait...masturbate. The condemnation of masturbation isnt found in the bible. Fonication-sex with muliple people, and rape in any form-man woman, man man, woman woman (sodom and gomarah is).

---I am just giving what i believe.
 
B

Brackenzee

Banned
#35
Oct 17, 2009
325
1
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#35
Elijah23 said:
You are twenty-two years of age. Do you suppose you still have things to learn?
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Of course--I'm learning new things all the time. And I can see that you've got a point there about faithfulness, something I'd not thought of.

Don't think of me as being all "Yay! Premarital sex rocks!"
It's just the church has made some very unhealthy judgment calls on its interpretation of what the scriptures say about sex--for example in the middle ages it was believed that it was wrong for a married couple to even enjoy it--so I don't think we should get too comfortable in our assumptions.
 
Elijah23

Elijah23

Banned
#36
Oct 23, 2009
366
1
0
#36
aprilrenee1 said:
First....what I know to believe...

Pre-marital sex yokes two souls together, God doesnt see them as married...but there is a deep spiritual bond.
Watchmen, you have no right to call people christian or non christian.

--As for me....thoughts? I think....it is good to wait til marraige...that way something very very intamate and special is shared. You all legalized this....its about the heart, two people....who LOVE eachother so much to share that bond. that joining....of a union, to stick together. God created this FOR good...for two people.

----and...if you cant wait...masturbate. The condemnation of masturbation isnt found in the bible. Fonication-sex with muliple people, and rape in any form-man woman, man man, woman woman (sodom and gomarah is).

---I am just giving what i believe.
Click to expand...
Masturbation isn’t an option, is it?
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#37
#37
there is no such thing as premarital sex. As soon as you sleep with someone, you are married. Period. Fornication is adverse sexual activity like sleeping around and homosexual perversions amongst other things. If you go with Christ's words in Matthew 19 and in John 4, it is very easy to see. So the church shouldn't be going around to establish its own righteousness if it isn't fully backed up by the Bible. The only act during which two flesh becomes one is the act of sex. Genesis 2:24 and once that happens you are married.
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#38
#38
Also, check out the marriage of Isaac and Rebekkah. Genesis 24:58+
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
#39
#39
Yash... That is a stupid notion. Marriage is a covenant of which sex is a privilege. Under the OT Law if a man "slept" with a woman the father could refuse to allow them to marry. But the man would have to pay the bride price anyway.

Therefore, sex does not make a marriage.
 
Y

YashayahSaviour

Guest
#40
#40
Lastly, where there is no law, there is no transgression. There is no law against it and if there is no law against it it is not sin. It may be unwise, but certainly not a sin.
 
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