Preparation for the tribulation.

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

Quote for me a postrib rapture verse.

Are you aware that the postrib doctrine openly declares "only one coming"?

....and rightly so. Their ENTIRE theory falls apart if there is more than one.

Read matthew 24.
2 comings VIVIDLY DECLAED BY JESUS.

READ REV 14.
I that chapter there are 3 gatherings.
None of those three gatherings is the main rapture, main harvest of 1 thes 4.
Postrib Doctrine is based on "condemnation prior to investigation"

How can anyone read the 3 comings of Jesus in the word of God, and refute the Bible honestly????????

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

According to the bible the wise virgins are not left behind.
Matthew 25
Matthew 24
Revelation 4
The last supper dialogue
Acts 1
1 thes 4
The innumerable number in heaven during the trib. .
Rev 14.
Noah
Lot

All just a few verses that CONCLUSIVELY point to a partial gathering of the church pretrib.
Compare that to the ONE VERSE of the postrib rapture doctrine of Matthew 24.
And in that verse post tribers somehow are completely oblivious to the fact that it says angels are Gathering From Heaven. They are not Gathering From Earth, and it is not Jesus doing the Gathering.

it is impossible that that verse is pointing to the Rapture is just simply impossible

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

So you agree with the Bible that a postrib rapture is impossible.?

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

Look guys.

You have to understand that God is a God of purpose.
if you look at Romans 9 and 10 and 11, you will see that God has a purpose for his Covenant Jewish people.
This is part of the foundation for the rapture.
The Bible says Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is completed.
So I want you to take a close look at that word completed.
If you look it up in the Greek it means completed.
That means after the completion of the Gentile bride and the Gathering of the the rest of the Gentile Church, via martyrdom, God turns his attention to the Jewish people.
So if you don't understand the purpose of the Great Tribulation then you'll never understand eschatology. Eschatology is based on the bride being gathered and and the father Gathering his wife.
there's two Brides.
there's two wives.
This is vividly Illustrated in the Book of Ruth and other places in the Old Testament.
we see Ruth as the Gentile bride.
We see Naomi is intricately connected to Ruth and Ruth is intricately connected to Naomi, but they are not the same person.
They don't have the same function and they don't have the same purpose. Boaz represents Jesus. If you don't understand the Book of Ruth you will never understand Revelation chapter 5. Revelation chapter 5 specifically points to the Book of Ruth and the Book of Ruth specifically points to Revelation chapter 5.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Nov 4, 2024

Psalm1 said:

Because that's not in the Bible.

I just watch pre-tribbers waiting and waiting and waiting for the Lord to come pick them up, while each passing day brings us closer to the great tribulation.

According to the Bible, I can confidently say you'll all still be here when the antichrist is revealed and the mark of the beast will be enforced soon after. This is why I don't bother arguing - the event itself will prove you wrong.

So build up your faith, listen to the Lord if He has specific instructions for you on surviving this worst time ever and endure to the end. Remember, being beheaded for the Lord is not the worst thing to happen.

🪂

Jimbone · Nov 4, 2024

Cameron143 said:

Isn't it truly insane how far reaching this idea of a pre-trib rapture and all these things from Revelation and Mat. 24, being future to us has embedded itself into the church? I know why they believe it, their most respected leaders and teachers have taught it for a couple generations and the tradition runs so deep. Heck it's what I heard my whole life and is the dominant belief ALL around me, so I get it. Heck it was God that lead me to seeing it a different way, and seeing how well it fit the text, and how mangled you have to make it and how much you have to bring to the text to get anything even resembling the whole future pre-trib viewpoint.

I know they don't see it like this, obviously, but the first and biggest problem I see with the view now is what I've come to call the "3rd temple dilemma". It's pretty simple really. Before I started asking this at least, most Christians would agree that scripture is closed. That Jesus was the fulfillment of everything the Prophets spoke of and the way to true reconciliation with God could be made real through His son Jesus. ONLY through Jesus. So we are not waiting on any more "revelation" from God. It was finished with Jesus and then the birth of the church. That happens at the end of the Mosaic age. This is when judgement falls on the covenant breakers. God didn't break covenant, as He is perfect in everything, but the Jews did. The very same Jews that yelled "His blood be on our head, and the heads of our children." The same Jews that Jesus looked in the eyes and said "Truly, Truly, I say to "YOU" "THIS generation" will not pass away before "ALL" these things take place". Those were the ones He was saying judgement was coming to. Soon.

Anyway, I had always heard that scripture was closed so any of these self proclaimed "new prophets" pop up, like Joseph Smith, or Mohammed, that these are false prophets and we need not fear them or heed their words. I never heard any debate on this. But that presents a HUGE problem in my mind. God did not command us to build a new temple anywhere in scripture I see.

So in scripture we see the anti-Christ standing in the "Holy Place", in Gods temple. I never heard any debate about this being "Gods Temple" either. But even if the Jews decide to build a fancy place and call it "the Temple of God", this does NOT make it a "Gods temple". This would not be a "Holy Place", and there is no where that God commanded this "3rd temple" be build as He did the first two, so this is a summery of the "3rd temple dilemma".

This is just a HUGE roadblock on a road of dead ends concerning the pre-trib, future to us, viewpoint. But for the sake of argument lets say God does command this temple be rebuilt. Why? It's whole purpose was to point to Jesus, and Jesus is here and the ONLY WAY. To rebuild the temple is a slap in the face to Jesus. Do they think God would do this? Go backwards and be so confusing? Anyway this is a DEEP well and this little drop at the very beginning derails the whole thing for me.

Jesus is on His throne now, today, with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, and He must reign until every enemy has been made a footstool for His feet, we are to therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations. We are to claim this world for His glory, not wait around enduring the beatdown until Jesus comes and does it. He already did it, and if you are born again, then you are how He is putting everything under His feet.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Nov 4, 2024

Jimbone said:

Isn't it truly insane how far reaching this idea of a pre-trib rapture and all these things from Revelation and Mat. 24, being future to us has embedded itself into the church? I know why they believe it, their most respected leaders and teachers have taught it for a couple generations and the tradition runs so deep. Heck it's what I heard my whole life and is the dominant belief ALL around me, so I get it. Heck it was God that lead me to seeing it a different way, and seeing how well it fit the text, and how mangled you have to make it and how much you have to bring to the text to get anything even resembling the whole future pre-trib viewpoint.

I know they don't see it like this, obviously, but the first and biggest problem I see with the view now is what I've come to call the "3rd temple dilemma". It's pretty simple really. Before I started asking this at least, most Christians would agree that scripture is closed. That Jesus was the fulfillment of everything the Prophets spoke of and the way to true reconciliation with God could be made real through His son Jesus. ONLY through Jesus. So we are not waiting on any more "revelation" from God. It was finished with Jesus and then the birth of the church. That happens at the end of the Mosaic age. This is when judgement falls on the covenant breakers. God didn't break covenant, as He is perfect in everything, but the Jews did. The very same Jews that yelled "His blood be on our head, and the heads of our children." The same Jews that Jesus looked in the eyes and said "Truly, Truly, I say to "YOU" "THIS generation" will not pass away before "ALL" these things take place". Those were the ones He was saying judgement was coming to. Soon.

Anyway, I had always heard that scripture was closed so any of these self proclaimed "new prophets" pop up, like Joseph Smith, or Mohammed, that these are false prophets and we need not fear them or heed their words. I never heard any debate on this. But that presents a HUGE problem in my mind. God did not command us to build a new temple anywhere in scripture I see.

So in scripture we see the anti-Christ standing in the "Holy Place", in Gods temple. I never heard any debate about this being "Gods Temple" either. But even if the Jews decide to build a fancy place and call it "the Temple of God", this does NOT make it a "Gods temple". This would not be a "Holy Place", and there is no where that God commanded this "3rd temple" be build as He did the first two, so this is a summery of the "3rd temple dilemma".

This is just a HUGE roadblock on a road of dead ends concerning the pre-trib, future to us, viewpoint. But for the sake of argument lets say God does command this temple be rebuilt. Why? It's whole purpose was to point to Jesus, and Jesus is here and the ONLY WAY. To rebuild the temple is a slap in the face to Jesus. Do they think God would do this? Go backwards and be so confusing? Anyway this is a DEEP well and this little drop at the very beginning derails the whole thing for me.

Jesus is on His throne now, today, with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, and He must reign until every enemy has been made a footstool for His feet, we are to therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations. We are to claim this world for His glory, not wait around enduring the beatdown until Jesus comes and does it. He already did it, and if you are born again, then you are how He is putting everything under His feet.

Yeah, the third temple is interesting so I wonder what the Bible means by it. All I know is things will turn out the way the Bible says and then we can all say, "oh so THAT'S what the Bible meant!"

I know that we Christians don't care about the third temple but the Jews want it and so does the antichrist. And it looks like God will permit it.

🪂

Cameron143 · Nov 4, 2024

Jimbone said:

Isn't it truly insane how far reaching this idea of a pre-trib rapture and all these things from Revelation and Mat. 24, being future to us has embedded itself into the church? I know why they believe it, their most respected leaders and teachers have taught it for a couple generations and the tradition runs so deep. Heck it's what I heard my whole life and is the dominant belief ALL around me, so I get it. Heck it was God that lead me to seeing it a different way, and seeing how well it fit the text, and how mangled you have to make it and how much you have to bring to the text to get anything even resembling the whole future pre-trib viewpoint.

I know they don't see it like this, obviously, but the first and biggest problem I see with the view now is what I've come to call the "3rd temple dilemma". It's pretty simple really. Before I started asking this at least, most Christians would agree that scripture is closed. That Jesus was the fulfillment of everything the Prophets spoke of and the way to true reconciliation with God could be made real through His son Jesus. ONLY through Jesus. So we are not waiting on any more "revelation" from God. It was finished with Jesus and then the birth of the church. That happens at the end of the Mosaic age. This is when judgement falls on the covenant breakers. God didn't break covenant, as He is perfect in everything, but the Jews did. The very same Jews that yelled "His blood be on our head, and the heads of our children." The same Jews that Jesus looked in the eyes and said "Truly, Truly, I say to "YOU" "THIS generation" will not pass away before "ALL" these things take place". Those were the ones He was saying judgement was coming to. Soon.

Anyway, I had always heard that scripture was closed so any of these self proclaimed "new prophets" pop up, like Joseph Smith, or Mohammed, that these are false prophets and we need not fear them or heed their words. I never heard any debate on this. But that presents a HUGE problem in my mind. God did not command us to build a new temple anywhere in scripture I see.

So in scripture we see the anti-Christ standing in the "Holy Place", in Gods temple. I never heard any debate about this being "Gods Temple" either. But even if the Jews decide to build a fancy place and call it "the Temple of God", this does NOT make it a "Gods temple". This would not be a "Holy Place", and there is no where that God commanded this "3rd temple" be build as He did the first two, so this is a summery of the "3rd temple dilemma".

This is just a HUGE roadblock on a road of dead ends concerning the pre-trib, future to us, viewpoint. But for the sake of argument lets say God does command this temple be rebuilt. Why? It's whole purpose was to point to Jesus, and Jesus is here and the ONLY WAY. To rebuild the temple is a slap in the face to Jesus. Do they think God would do this? Go backwards and be so confusing? Anyway this is a DEEP well and this little drop at the very beginning derails the whole thing for me.

Jesus is on His throne now, today, with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, and He must reign until every enemy has been made a footstool for His feet, we are to therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations. We are to claim this world for His glory, not wait around enduring the beatdown until Jesus comes and does it. He already did it, and if you are born again, then you are how He is putting everything under His feet.

Key thought: IT WAS GOD who led me to understand...PTL.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Nov 4, 2024

BOY said:

This video talks about (supposedly) Bible prophecies that the Dome of the Rock will be destroyed. *Shrug* I don't know if this is true but we'll see.

So if this happens, then it's quite possible to have the third temple built so the Jews can restart the daily sacrifices and so that the antichrist can desecrate it later.

The Al Aqsa Most (sic) and the Dome of the Rock WILL BE DESTROYED

🪂

ZNP · Nov 4, 2024

BOY said:

Yes, I have. I believe in a pre tribulation rapture, but I also believe that 80% of the believers will go through the tribulation. So whether or not I get raptured it makes sense to prepare. The most important item on my list is bibles as I believe the antichrist will control the internet and censor and change the bible online.

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

I am a pre-trib rapture adherent.
I totally believe that the Antichrist will be revealed pre-tribulation, and I actually believe it's just as soon as he takes control he will have all the Christians rounded up.
Since I'm a Christian I will be in that group.
It will be a huge Gathering. It will be a compound so large you can't even see where the fence ends.
I believe there'll be post Tribbers all over the place inside that compound
, mocking and sneering and hating on the pre-tribbers, kinda like we see in today's modern world.
They'll be saying hahaha where is your stupid pre-trib rapture?
It will be in that Arena that the Rapture will happen and it will be pre-tribulation

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

Modern excavations have revealed that area was not Solomons temple, but rather the fortress Antonia where the Roman army stationed themselves.

They have excavated part of the temple south of the wailing wall

Psalm1 · Nov 4, 2024

Jimbone said:

Isn't it truly insane how far reaching this idea of a pre-trib rapture and all these things from Revelation and Mat. 24, being future to us has embedded itself into the church? I know why they believe it, their most respected leaders and teachers have taught it for a couple generations and the tradition runs so deep. Heck it's what I heard my whole life and is the dominant belief ALL around me, so I get it. Heck it was God that lead me to seeing it a different way, and seeing how well it fit the text, and how mangled you have to make it and how much you have to bring to the text to get anything even resembling the whole future pre-trib viewpoint.

I know they don't see it like this, obviously, but the first and biggest problem I see with the view now is what I've come to call the "3rd temple dilemma". It's pretty simple really. Before I started asking this at least, most Christians would agree that scripture is closed. That Jesus was the fulfillment of everything the Prophets spoke of and the way to true reconciliation with God could be made real through His son Jesus. ONLY through Jesus. So we are not waiting on any more "revelation" from God. It was finished with Jesus and then the birth of the church. That happens at the end of the Mosaic age. This is when judgement falls on the covenant breakers. God didn't break covenant, as He is perfect in everything, but the Jews did. The very same Jews that yelled "His blood be on our head, and the heads of our children." The same Jews that Jesus looked in the eyes and said "Truly, Truly, I say to "YOU" "THIS generation" will not pass away before "ALL" these things take place". Those were the ones He was saying judgement was coming to. Soon.

Anyway, I had always heard that scripture was closed so any of these self proclaimed "new prophets" pop up, like Joseph Smith, or Mohammed, that these are false prophets and we need not fear them or heed their words. I never heard any debate on this. But that presents a HUGE problem in my mind. God did not command us to build a new temple anywhere in scripture I see.

So in scripture we see the anti-Christ standing in the "Holy Place", in Gods temple. I never heard any debate about this being "Gods Temple" either. But even if the Jews decide to build a fancy place and call it "the Temple of God", this does NOT make it a "Gods temple". This would not be a "Holy Place", and there is no where that God commanded this "3rd temple" be build as He did the first two, so this is a summery of the "3rd temple dilemma".

This is just a HUGE roadblock on a road of dead ends concerning the pre-trib, future to us, viewpoint. But for the sake of argument lets say God does command this temple be rebuilt. Why? It's whole purpose was to point to Jesus, and Jesus is here and the ONLY WAY. To rebuild the temple is a slap in the face to Jesus. Do they think God would do this? Go backwards and be so confusing? Anyway this is a DEEP well and this little drop at the very beginning derails the whole thing for me.

Jesus is on His throne now, today, with ALL authority in heaven and on earth, and He must reign until every enemy has been made a footstool for His feet, we are to therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations. We are to claim this world for His glory, not wait around enduring the beatdown until Jesus comes and does it. He already did it, and if you are born again, then you are how He is putting everything under His feet.

No

You did not prove a thing.
As far as roadblocks, there are zero in the pretrib rapture doctrine.
Jesus said " great tribulation such as the world has NEVER SEEN, NOR EVER WILL.

Pretty hard to wiggle around that.

Karlon · Nov 4, 2024

BOY said:

preparation for the tribulation? why? are you an atheist? born again Christians don't have to prepare for the tribulation, we're not going to be here!!! going to do something? you better if you're going to be here for the tribulation. it's called get saved!!!

DRobinson · Nov 4, 2024

ZNP said:

Yes, I have. I believe in a pre tribulation rapture, but I also believe that 80% of the believers will go through the tribulation. So whether or not I get raptured it makes sense to prepare. The most important item on my list is bibles as I believe the antichrist will control the internet and censor and change the bible online.

What Scripture do you base your 20/80% on?

ZNP · Nov 4, 2024

DRobinson said:

The Lord gives 3 parables, you have 2 householders one is evil and one is good. So that is 1/2

Then you have ten virgins, 5 wise and 5 foolish. So then of the good and constructive members of the church 5 are wise and have filled their vessels with oil because they have a relationship with the Lord and 5 come to the church each week to get oil from others.

1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4

Then you have 3 who have received a talent from the Lord, two are good and faithful servants, one is not.

2/3x1/4 = 2/12 = 1/6 = 16.6%.

This also aligns with the 12 spies, 2 were good and faithful (Joshua and Caleb) and ten were rejected. Again, 1/6th = 16.6%

So if I use fractions I say one sixth, if I use percentages I say 20/80.

GRACE_ambassador · Nov 4, 2024

? Precious friends, while many are busy telling the opposition that "they are wrong,"
doesn't our Wonderful Lord and Saviour Wish us to busy obeying God's Word Of Truth Rightly
Divided, and "receiving Comfort From His Wonderful Words Of Truth":

"...Wherefore Comfort one another With These Words!" (1 Thessalonians 4:18 AV) Amen?

I'm Very Sure that ALL discussers here are already quite familiar with the preceding
Five Wonderful verses Of Truth in this context, eh? So, where are the comforting words
of the critics, in such statements as these?:

"You will find out you [ pre-tribbers ] were wrong, and you will be UNprepared
"to be martyred."?
"If you are a pre tribulation believing Christian obviously you won't believe that."?
"Isn't it truly insane how far reaching this idea of a pre-trib rapture..."?
"pre-trib theory is a teaching from the pits of hell."? "etc, etc, etc..."???

Years ago, after hearing the "teaching of men" and being Very Discouraged with all
this Negativity, and being one who wants "The Truth, The WHOLE Truth, and Nothing
But THE TRUTH! I took some time [ 18 months ] off, and prayed to God, and studied,
and prayed some more, and studied some more - results? 17-part Bible study:

The Great GRACE Departure! {aka rapture}

Outline!:

"Do all things Decently And In Order!" (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV)

(1A) PEACE With God! Receiving The Holy Spirit For understanding?
(1B) 1A e-x-p-a-n-d-e-d for Clarification?

(2a) Which Bible: AV, or, any "newer modern version" will suffice?
(2b) AV And God's Bible study Rules!

(3a) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - Brief Introduction...
(3b) Three "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's Timelines?

(4) Which "Gospel" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?
(5) GREAT Tribulation? or, tribulations/GREAT GRACE Departure!?

(6) Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure Expectations!?
(7) God's Heavenly UPlook For His Body!?

(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking: For WHOM! or, For "signs"?

Comforting Portion thereof = "looking for the man of sin/tribulation/martyrdom"? OR:

Blessed Hope, "looking, watching, and patiently waiting For The LORD Jesus Christ!"

(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25; 1 Corinthians 1:7;

Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 1:10;

1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)

(9) God's Removal Of His Body Of CHRIST!:

(10) "Day Of CHRIST { Light }!" / Rightly Divided from {RDf}:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ "The Day Of The LORD [ Darkness ]!"?

small [ comforting? ] portion!:

"Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! To what end is it

for you? The day of the LORD is darkness, and not light" (Amos 6:18 AV)

(11) Confidence in death/resurrection, Or, in living/glorification!?
(12) CHRIST Will Come "Without Warning!"?

(13) The Two "Trumps" Of God, In His "Age Of GRACE"?
(14) Meeting Him "In The Air" Up To Heaven! vs U-turn (theology?)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Back down To earth?

(15) Preparation For [ Israel's tribulation? OR: ]

The Judgment Seat Of Christ!? (1 Corinthians 3:8-15 AV)

(16) Post Departure Deception Question?

+

Part 17 Conclusion { ~100 Bible verses, Rightly Divided }:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

There has been almost No interest in any of this, but, As God Is my Witness, this
has been, and will be [ until I go ] Very Comforting for me [ very OLD man ] anyway!

Amen.

BOY · Nov 5, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

Because that's not in the Bible.

I just watch pre-tribbers waiting and waiting and waiting for the Lord to come pick them up, while each passing day brings us closer to the great tribulation.

According to the Bible, I can confidently say you'll all still be here when the antichrist is revealed and the mark of the beast will be enforced soon after. This is why I don't bother arguing - the event itself will prove you wrong.

So build up your faith, listen to the Lord if He has specific instructions for you on surviving this worst time ever and endure to the end. Remember, being beheaded for the Lord is not the worst thing to happen.

🪂

You are such a defender of the faith. A real soldier for Jesus. May the Lord strengthen your hand. God bless you.

BOY · Nov 5, 2024

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

I can see Israel getting whatever it wants. and it wants to do sacrifice again. No matter what it has to squash it will accomplish its goals.

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 5, 2024

BOY said:

Yes, I'm sure (I'm sure those are the two verses I intended to point to, when addressing your question

).

But it sounds like you are uninformed about what the FALSE CLAIM IS ABOUT (that Paul was pointing out and cautioning them of, in verse 2).

Would you care to give a summary statement regarding what that FALSE CLAIM (in v.2b) was / is speaking of?

I find that many people do not grasp what it is that the FALSE CLAIM (in v.2) was / is concerning.

Care to venture to put it into your own words (what it is ABOUT / what it MEANS, there)?

Preparation for the tribulation.

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