Preterism, Futurism, Historicism 3 Schools of Interpretation

[GaryA]

When Jesus comes He will gather the saved and the lost will be destroyed.

Mat 24:35-39
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away,
Earth will pass away..
Like the flood all were killed except those saved in Christ

but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Took them all, ALL, away.

No wicked survivers.

In general, I can agree with you on this part; however, ...

The Earth will be burned up.. all the elements will melt...

When Jesus comes the Earth will be destroyed.

I believe you are misinterpreting/misunderstanding this part.

2 Peter 3:

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Verse 8 in this passage reveals to us that the 'day of the Lord' in verse 10 is a 1000-year period of time.

The 'day of the Lord' is both a 1000-year period of time - and - the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years.

The context of a particular passage of scripture will indicate which applies to that passage of scripture.

The list of things in verse 10 actually occur at the end of the 1000-year 'day of the Lord' period of time.

The new heavens and new earth mentioned here come into being after the end of the 'day of the Lord'.

 

[GaryA]

The '7th day' will be no different than the '6th day' (which we are in now) where physics, etc. is concerned - the only difference is that Jesus will be ruling-and-reigning over all of the earth.

People will be born, live, and die. They will have the sin nature. They will commit sin. They will end up saved or lost.

The "key connection" between the '6th day' and the '7th day' (I believe) will be the 144,000.

 

[GaryA]

The "key connection" between the '6th day' and the '7th day' (I believe) will be the 144,000.

I meant this in the sense of the transition from the '6th day' to the '7th day'.

But, my overall point is - that there will be mortal people - with the sin nature - just like now - living on earth throughout the 1000-year reign of Christ.

(The 144,000 will be mortal.)

 

[GaryA]

We are not told we will have a second chance.... second chance doctrines are from Satan so people feel safe putting off what needs to be done today.

Don't get me wrong - I know the Bible tells us our "last chance" will be in this life - and that we are not guaranteed tomorrow. I agree with your statement here.

The parable about the 10 virgins shows that when Jesus come you are saved or lost no second chance.

Including those who have not been born yet?

What I am referring to here is that mortal people will be born, live, and die during the 1000-year reign of Christ.

I do agree that saved-or-lost does apply at the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[TMS]

An angel comes down from heaven - to where?

Where is the bottomless pit located?

Where are the nations that the Devil deceived and will deceive again? (There is a major clue in verse 8 and verse 9. Look for the word 'earth'.)

If not on earth - what is there to reign over?

If not on earth - what is happening on earth for 1000 years?

Did the nations "remove" from the earth to somewhere else at the start of the 1000 years and then "return" to the earth at the end of the 1000 years?

Fire comes down from heaven - to where?

The verse does not say people will be on earth until the 1000 years is over.

Satan is bound for 1000 years on earth and the earth is destroyed when Jesus returns so no people are living for this time.

But at the end of the 1000 years the second resurrection takes place. The unsaved are raised to face judgement.

And are destroyed for ever,

Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished....

 

[TMS]

Do you Believe there is 1000 years between the resurrection of the saved and the resurrection of the lost?

? ? ?

Joh 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rev 20:4-6
4 ......and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

John states that all will be raised to life in the resurrection of life or the resurrection of damnation. The first resurrection is the one we need to be part of... this is when we are changed and given new bodies...

1Co 15:50-54
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This happen at the coming of Jesus.

The Earth is destroyed

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The Earth is destroyed

The world, ie man's system, is destroyed, not the earth

 

[Iconoclast]

Yep - and, the prophecy as a whole covers a long span of time and not a short one.

Take a look at this chart:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Second_Coming.html

Each and every verse/passage in the list is referring to the same singular 'event' - the Second Coming of Christ, the Wrath of God, etc.

All of the sun, moon, and stars "language" is not just "being poetic" - it is actually talking about the Second Coming of Christ, the Wrath of God, etc. - in each and every case.

I like the work you put into your chart, but I believe it is mistaken, in that you try to put it all future to the second coming.
The Judgements were day of the Lord judgments that already happened in OT.Time.
There have been several, not one.
Peter does not say the events of Pentecost were spread over a long period of time...He said THIS IS THAT.
Now you are free to hold whatever you want. I have offered what I see, you offer what you see. Both are not correct.

 

[Iconoclast]

Adstar,


[Did people approach Jesus when they where still sinners in the days of the first coming of Jesus? Yes...]

Hello Adstar,
Yes ,people did approach Jesus here on earth, before the cross.
He had taken upon Himself a "body of flesh".
This took place before He ascended up to the Throne as the risen glorified Christ.
Was there any difference? Yes Indeed?
The apostle John had seen Jesus after the resurrection, and at His ascension.
However, look at how John reacts and was affected when He saw the glorified Christ;

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
King James Version (KJV)
He fell at His feet as a dead man! Do you get a glimpse here in scripture of the Glorified Christ is???

 

[GaryA]

Satan is bound for 1000 years on earth and the earth is destroyed when Jesus returns so no people are living for this time.

Look very carefully at the wording of these verses:

Revelation 20:

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years - so that he cannot deceive the nations during that time - after which, he is let out to deceive the nations once more.

The bottomless pit is on earth.

The nations are on earth - before, during, and after the 1000 years.

If no one is living on earth for 1000 years - how does the population grow to reach 'the number of whom is as the sand of the sea' at/by the end of the 1000 years?

 

[GaryA]

Do you Believe there is 1000 years between the resurrection of the saved and the resurrection of the lost?

Yes - and that Jesus will be ruling-and-reigning on earth for the entire 1000-year span of time.

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is referring to the second resurrection - after the 1000 years is fulfilled - before/at the GWTJ. And, everything referred to in these verses occurs at the same singular 'event' that is the second resurrection - it is not talking about two separate resurrection 'events'.

Revelation 20:

4 ... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is referring to the first resurrection - when Jesus returns - at the beginning of the 1000 years.

The Earth is destroyed

No, it is not - that is, not until after the 1000 years is fulfilled and the GWTJ occurs.

 

[GaryA]

The Judgements were day of the Lord judgments that already happened in OT.Time.
There have been several, not one.

There is only one 'THE day of the Lord' in prophecy.

Peter does not say the events of Pentecost were spread over a long period of time...He said THIS IS THAT.

And, the 'THAT' is the 'last days' and not the [single] day of Pentecost only. He is not saying that every-last-detail of the prophecy happened on the day of Pentecost. Rather, that what they were seeing on that day was part of a prophecy of Joel.

 

[TMS]

Look very carefully at the wording of these verses:

Revelation 20:

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years - so that he cannot deceive the nations during that time - after which, he is let out to deceive the nations once more.

The bottomless pit is on earth.

The nations are on earth - before, during, and after the 1000 years.

If no one is living on earth for 1000 years - how does the population grow to reach 'the number of whom is as the sand of the sea' at/by the end of the 1000 years?

He can't decieve the nations because no one is there. The unsaved are destroyed by the coming of Jesus and the earth with no living people is a jail...

When the second resurrection happens at the end of the 1000 years (the resurrection of damnation), all that have lived and are not save will be raised.
Satan is freed because he now has people to tempt and ways to work against God.

A lifeless earth = jail for Satan and his demons.
When the 1000 years are over and the second resurrection happens he can go out to decieve the world again.

And then they shall be destroyed.

 

[TMS]

If no one is living on earth for 1000 years - how does the population grow to reach 'the number of whom is as the sand of the sea' at/by the end of the 1000 years?

The resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All that are not raised when Jesus comes will be raised at the end of the 1000 years.

 

[TMS]

This is referring to the second resurrection - after the 1000 years is fulfilled - before/at the GWTJ. And, everything referred to in these verses occurs at the same singular 'event' that is the second resurrection - it is not talking about two separate resurrection 'events'.

On what grounds do you make this statement??

John 5 is talking about two resurrections.

The resurrection of damnation and the resurrection of life.
Those that are raised in the first are with Jesus for the 1000 years.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

There is no sin in God's kingdom.

Jesus does not reign over a sinful kingdom.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There is only one 'THE day of the Lord' in prophecy.

This is an unfortunate misconception. There have been many days of the lord. The Hebrew phrase "the day of the lord" does not appear in OT prophecy; it always says "a day of the lord".

 

[TMS]

When Jesus comes it is not a small event....
A huge resurrection. 1 Thes 4:16, and the saved living and dead are changed..1 Cor 15:50.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Jer 25:33
And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

2Th 1:7-9
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

When Jesus returns there is going to be lots of destruction for the wicked and salvation for the saved.

 

[TMS]

The day of the Lord ....

2Pe 3:9-12
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1Th 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Act 2:20-21
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The day of the Lord....
The context is clearly talking about the second coming of Jesus. 2 Thes 1:7.
1 Thes 4:16.

 

[TMS]

Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years - so that he cannot deceive the nations during that time - after which, he is let out to deceive the nations once more.

The bottomless pit is the Earth.
The word used for bottomless pit is

abussos
= bottomless, unbounded
= the abyss
the Pit, the immeasurable depth of Orcus, a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth used as the common receptacle of the dead and especially as the abode of demons.

The same word in greek is used in Gen 1:2. "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Deep = abussos.

So the Earth was called the bottomless pit or abyss before God created order and design and life.

Satan will be stuck with this disorderly chaos. The Earth will be void of life.

Demons can not be held with literal chains or walls. So God must be making a prison that is symbolic. The only way to stop Satan and his demons from deceiving people for the 1000 years is to seperate him from them.

What is the chain..? God has chained Satan to the Earth. And by removing the saved from the Earth Satan will have no one to decieve.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

He has no access to any human during the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

....People to decieve again....

Rev 20:7-8
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The unsaved are raised for judgement and Satan uses the opportunity to decieve them again.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is only one 'THE day of the Lord' in prophecy.


And, the 'THAT' is the 'last days' and not the [single] day of Pentecost only. He is not saying that every-last-detail of the prophecy happened on the day of Pentecost. Rather, that what they were seeing on that day was part of a prophecy of Joel.

The phrase “the day of the Lord” is used often in the Old Testament (e.g. Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5) and several times in the New Testament (e.g. Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14).

The Old Testament passages dealing with the day of the Lord often convey a sense of imminence, nearness, and expectation: “Wail, for the day of the Lord is near!” (Isaiah 13:6); “For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near” (Ezekiel 30:3); “Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming. It is close at hand” (Joel 2:1); “Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision” (Joel 3:14); “Be silent before the Lord God! For the day of the Lord is near” (Zephaniah 1:7). This is because the Old Testament passages referring to the day of the Lord often speak of both a near and a far fulfillment, as does much of Old Testament prophecy. Some Old Testament passages that refer to the day of the Lord describe historical judgments that have already been fulfilled in some sense (Isaiah 13:6-22; Ezekiel 30:2-19; Joel 1:15, 3:14; Amos 5:18-20; Zephaniah 1:14-18), while others refers to divine judgments that will take place toward the end of the age (Joel 2:30-32; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:1, 5).