Pride goes before destruction

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Jul 22, 2014
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It is death to the flesh and the redemption of our body that will cause every believer to cease from sin and not until then. If we suffer in the flesh we can keep sin from reigning in our mortal bodies. Jesus did not die only for the sin of our past lives, he died for all sin. In that, all have sinned and come short. The sin of tomorrow is included in the shedding of blood. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JASON? The sin we commit after we have been justified is under the blood Jason. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? Next year's sin is under the blood. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JASON?

The sin of the whole world is under the blood, even the sin of those who have not even been born and have not done any good or evil. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JASON? Being under the blood means that all sin has been judged through the death of Christ's sacrifice, the Lamb of God. Without the shedding of that blood there is no remission of sins. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself (by putting away their sin) and not imputing their trespasses unto them (2 Cor 5:19). DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JASON? This is the gospel that we are to preach, Christ has paid for your sins and when you put your trust in what he has done for you, you be cleansed and forgiven of all sin. DO YOU BELIEVE AND PREACH THAT GOSPEL JASON?
1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as he is in the light then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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No way. Not at all. The parable of the prodigal son also shows this same truth in James 5:19-20. When the Prodigal son came home, the father had said to his son twice that he was once dead and now he is alive again. This is of course speaking in spiritual terms.

In 1 Timothy 5, The believing widows who later lived in pleasure were considered dead while they lived. But does that mean, they are forever dead? No. God calls even various churches to repent in Revelation 2-3.
Now we're getting close to come into other topics. Well, whatever way you try to put it, it does still not add up with scripture to say one can get saved then lose it and get unsaved and then get saved again (and again and again...)! Maybe you should think a tad bit closer on terminology and see what comes out of this going in and out of salvation idea. Or what your view on salvation actually is. After all, it seems that your actual view is close to Kenneth's, namely that salvation is not a reality here and now, on earth, for anyone.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Not at all. Salvation is in God and in His ability to change you so that you can follow His Word or Commands (See Ezekiel 36:26-27). But if we resist God and we stop to continue in His Word and do not do what it says, then we will be judged by His very words in the last day (John 12:48).

The Scriptures say that we are to hide God's Word in our hearts so that we may not sin against him. Does it sound like that we can still sin if that is the case? Does doing such a thing sound like it it is the Burger King way or the King of King's way?

The Scriptures also say that we are to pray so as not to be led into temptation. Where can sin happen if we are praying so as not to be led into temptation?

So you see, it is something that you desire from God to do in your life. Not the other way around.

If you believe salvation is in God's hands alone, then step back think about what you are saying and how you put it forth to others.

Because I have seen you a number of times make forgivable sins and make them unforgivable...................

Once again habitual sin that carries no repentance or no true repentance even though the person may state they repent.
A person who is a believer if they stumble and commit a sin will not forfeit their salvation. Stumble means they commit a sin during their walk and then repent of it and move forward in the light.
The prodigal son and James 5 is speaking of going back to a life of habitual sin again, not just stumbling !!!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Now we're getting close to come into other topics. Well, whatever way you try to put it, it does still not add up with scripture to say one can get saved then lose it and get unsaved and then get saved again (and again and again...)! Maybe you should think a tad bit closer on terminology and see what comes out of this going in and out of salvation idea. Or what your view on salvation actually is. After all, it seems that your actual view is close to Kenneth's, namely that salvation is not a reality here and now, on earth, for anyone.
While I am not entirely sure about Ken's beliefs on assurance of salvation. He does tend to push those verses that talk about Glorification in relation to salvation alot. I believe one can have an assurance of salvation right now (1 John 5:13).

As for 1 Timothy 5, not sure how you can twist the verses on those believing widows who lived in pleasure and were dead (spiritually) while they were yet alive. That is pretty rock solid to me. They were believers. They lived in pleasures. They were dead while they lived. Why? Because they went back to live in pleasure.

This is the same concept as.... he that shall save his life shall lose it.... and he that shall lose his life for Christ's sake shall save it. I do not see Eternal Security in those types of verses. A believer has to endure in their faith and continue to abide with Christ (According to His Word).
 
Jul 22, 2014
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If you believe salvation is in God's hands alone, then step back think about what you are saying and how you put it forth to others.
I say to people that it is God that does the work in you and it is not ultimately you.

Because I have seen you a number of times make forgivable sins and make them unforgivable...................
Please do not take offense, but I believe this is based upon your misunderstandng in one verse taught in Scripture. For clearly if a person destroys their temple God will destroy them.

Once again habitual sin that carries no repentance or no true repentance even though the person may state they repent.
A person who is a believer if they stumble and commit a sin will not forfeit their salvation. Stumble means they commit a sin during their walk and then repent of it and move forward in the light.
The prodigal son and James 5 is speaking of going back to a life of habitual sin again, not just stumbling !!!
I totally agree with what you written here. But I do not think a believer can say to themselves that they will forever be a slave to their sin, though. That is making an allowance for evil. It is having the wrong attitude about sin that is not Scriptural. The Scriptures say, sin shall not have dominion over you. Yet by what you have said to me so far, it makes it sound like you are saying that this is not the case.
 
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psychomom

Guest
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do you know there are Christians who would love to go to church?
the elderly and infirm who miss it? (wouldn't you like to visit them? :))

you think about that. and make some plans to get to church.
while you wait for the weekend, how about a systematic theology?

i haven't read it yet, but i hear Wayne Grudem published a good one--quite comprehensive.
there are others, though, if he's not your cup of tea. :)
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
I say to people that it is God that does the work in you and it is not ultimately you.



Please do not take offense, but I believe this is based upon your misunderstandng in one verse taught in Scripture. For clearly if a person destroys their temple God will destroy them.



I totally agree with what you written here. But I do not think a believer can say to themselves that they will forever be a slave to their sin, though. That is making an allowance for evil. It is having the wrong attitude about sin that is not Scriptural. The Scriptures say, sin shall not have dominion over you. Yet by what you have said to me so far, it makes it sound like you are saying that this is not the case.

You are the one who misunderstands that scripture Jason, for the Lord Jesus is very clear what is forgivable in that scripture and what is not. There is no way to even confuse that scripture, the only thing you can do is twist it to make that which is forgivable unforgivable. If it is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that is done, it can be forgiven...........No ifs or buts about it, Jesus is clear ALL SINS except for one of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit !!!


You are not a slave to sin if you stumble here or there, being a slave to sin means you can never give it up once you start doing it. It controls your every walk from here on out, and stumbling and then repenting is not being a slave to it !!!
 
Dec 1, 2014
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That is not true VW because I have more than once mentioned my testimony on here, that growing up I was raised in a Baptist background that thought the OSAS philosophy. When I was around 19 I walked away from God to live my own life disassociating from the church. When I did this I was not under God's grace headed for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
Yes you were, Brother. God did not forsake you, but rather He allowed you to engage in your free will, all the while knowing you were going to come back home. You were being prepared for His plans for you that seriously involved glorifying His name to others.

I smoked pot almost everyday for seven years, all the while loving God and worshipping Him. Then one day God smacked me but good, and I straightened out. But it was God in is His loving mercy and wisdom that allowed me the experience to engage in that nonsense because it prepared me to be able to relate to folks who have chemical dependencies. See how one man's garbage (mine) is God's treasure.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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View attachment 121923


do you know there are Christians who would love to go to church?
the elderly and infirm who miss it? (wouldn't you like to visit them? :))

you think about that. and make some plans to get to church.
while you wait for the weekend, how about a systematic theology?

i haven't read it yet, but i hear Wayne Grudem published a good one--quite comprehensive.
there are others, though, if he's not your cup of tea. :)
You keep pushing that I need to go to a church that no doubt teaches OSAS (Which is something that the Bible does not agree with). Sorry, if you and others here cannot properly answer the verses I have brought forth (that refutes OSAS), then I sincerely doubt a church will be able to do so, either. In fact, I talked with a Pastor about OSAS after the sermon once. Let's just say we do not agree.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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You keep pushing that I need to go to a church that no doubt teaches OSAS (Which is something that the Bible does not agree with). Sorry, if you and others here cannot properly answer the verses I have brought forth (that refutes OSAS), then I sincerely doubt a church will be able to do so, either. In fact, I talked with a Pastor about OSAS after the sermon once. Let's just say we do not agree.
Have you ever considered going to a church that teaches OSAS?
It might change your mind?
 
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psychomom

Guest
You keep pushing that I need to go to a church that no doubt teaches OSAS (Which is something that the Bible does not agree with). Sorry, if you and others here cannot properly answer the verses I have brought forth (that refutes OSAS), then I sincerely doubt a church will be able to do so, either. In fact, I talked with a Pastor about OSAS after the sermon once. Let's just say we do not agree.
you, in fact, do have need of someone to teach you.
we all do... even pastors have pastors.

why don't you take that part of the Scriptures seriously?

(edited to add)

what made you think i was only speaking to you?
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Yes you were, Brother. God did not forsake you, but rather He allowed you to engage in your free will, all the while knowing you were going to come back home. You were being prepared for His plans for you that seriously involved glorifying His name to others.

I smoked pot almost everyday for seven years, all the while loving God and worshipping Him. Then one day God smacked me but good, and I straightened out. But it was God in is His loving mercy and wisdom that allowed me the experience to engage in that nonsense because it prepared me to be able to relate to folks who have chemical dependencies. See how one man's garbage (mine) is God's treasure.

Your right He did not forsake me, but for that time I turned my back on Him.

This is the area the Holy Spirit is working through me to get acrossed to others, as God will never forsake us, and when we turn our back on Him then we have walked away from that grace He has shown us. If we return to Him then and only then does our souls become saved again unto salvation. James 5:19-20 clearly shows this standard, and I posted a few posts back from the Strong's Greek how the usage of soul is used in this passage. It clearly is saving their soul from eternal death in the lake of fire......For a person can not serve flesh and God both, as this is clearly stated no less then 3 times in the bible !!!

(God: Joshua 24:15........Lord Jesus: Matthew 6:24...........Apostle Paul: Romans 6:16)
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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you, in fact, do have need of someone to teach you.
we all do... even pastors have pastors.

why don't you take that part of the Scriptures seriously?

(edited to add)

what made you think i was only speaking to you?
It's okay ,Ellie.

Jason is starting to see the light. He is moving towards OSAS a little more each day.
We now got him saying, that a believer can and will sin occasionally, so, with that, he just seems a bit confused.

Baby steps.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Have you ever considered going to a church that teaches OSAS?
It might change your mind?

I belonged to a Baptist church for 12 years that taught OSAS when I was younger............God, His Holy Spirit's guidance, and the Word of God showed me His true path to lead others......

God kept me from going back to that doctrine because it is not supported by His word...
 
Jul 22, 2014
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You are the one who misunderstands that scripture Jason, for the Lord Jesus is very clear what is forgivable in that scripture and what is not. There is no way to even confuse that scripture, the only thing you can do is twist it to make that which is forgivable unforgivable. If it is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that is done, it can be forgiven...........No ifs or buts about it, Jesus is clear ALL SINS except for one of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit !!!


You are not a slave to sin if you stumble here or there, being a slave to sin means you can never give it up once you start doing it. It controls your every walk from here on out, and stumbling and then repenting is not being a slave to it !!!
Actually, you said that a believer can commit suicide (and stay dead) and be forgiven of it. This is wrong for three major reasons.

#1. Teaching that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved gives them the "green light" that they can kill themselves, whether you want them to do that or not. For all they want to hear is... will they make it to Heaven? You are saying in some cases that is a .... "yes." So they will kill themselves. This is wrong.

#2. God says he will destroy that person who will destroy their own temple. The body is a temple. If a person destroys the body, God will destroy their soul (i.e. erase their existence after the Judgment).

#3. Suicide is self murder; And we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15).

When Jesus says all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven, he was talking primarily in reference to the sin of blasphemy. Yes, Jesus also referenced other sins generally. But "all" does not always mean "all" in the Scriptures. So Jesus was not referencing all other sins (as if it was to be read with some kind of odd wooden literalism). His focus was primarily on the topic concerning blasphemy. Jesus also does not say this is the only unforgivable sin. He does not say that.
 
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psychomom

Guest
It's okay ,Ellie.

Jason is starting to see the light. He is moving towards OSAS a little more each day.
We now got him saying, that a believer can and will sin occasionally, so, with that, he just seems a bit confused.

Baby steps.
s&d.jpg

thanks for the update.

not keeping up too well these days. :)
 
Jul 22, 2014
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It's okay ,Ellie.

Jason is starting to see the light. He is moving towards OSAS a little more each day.
We now got him saying, that a believer can and will sin occasionally, so, with that, he just seems a bit confused.

Baby steps.
While this may be true for some here, I do not believe that is the case for all OSAS proponents. There are may who claim to sin daily and yet they are forgiven despite them doing so.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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I belonged to a Baptist church for 12 years that taught OSAS when I was younger............God, His Holy Spirit's guidance, and the Word of God showed me His true path to lead others......

God kept me from going back to that doctrine because it is not supported by His word...
That was directed at Jason.
But....okay.

I know, l know, you said the term was coined by Calvin. Who cares who came up with it. I hate labels anyway.
"OSAS" is just the fastest way to type it....you know, when l'm spreading the truth about OSAS and how the Bible clearly supports it.
 
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psychomom

Guest
While this may be true for some here, I do not believe that is the case for all OSAS proponents. There are may who claim to sin daily and yet they are forgiven despite them doing so.
a simple answer would be lovely...

why do you not take seriously the Biblical admonitions about gathering together and being taught?

wouldn't you accept refusing those would be sin?