Pride goes before destruction

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Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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While this may be true for some here, I do not believe that is the case for all OSAS proponents. There are may who claim to sin daily and yet they are forgiven despite them doing so.
Who?


I can pull up posts by you saying a believer can and will occasionally sin,
.........but you have yet to show us one single post where someone is going around saying it's okay to sin.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Dear Kenneth:

Also, as for being a slave to sin. Well, serial killers have been known to sometimes kill on just occasion. Does that mean they are not really a serial killer because they do not do it all the time?

Now, it is true, God's grace is there for the person who struggles with sin and or for the person who sins on occasion. But God's grace is not for those who think they can get away with sin either habitually or on occasion. For to say that one will never be able to stop sinning is to give into defeat to sin that it has dominion over you. It is making an allowance or an excuse for sin. It is having the wrong mindset or attitude about sin. A believer should always strive to put sin out of their life and they have to believe God will deliver them from their sin. Why? Because the Scriptures say that sin shall not h ave dominion over you. For whether you sin alot or a little on occasion, if one believes they will forever sin at some point, then sin does indeed have dominion over that person.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Who?


I can pull up posts by you saying a believer can and will occasionally sin,
.........but you have yet to show us one single post where someone is going around saying it's okay to sin.
First, most people here voted in the poll that they can die in unrepentant sin such as lying, lusting after women, and hating and still be saved. Second, I have talked with people both online (TOL) and in person who have admitted that they can do really bad and evil things and still be saved while doing so.
 
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psychomom

Guest
Who?


I can pull up posts by you saying a believer can and will occasionally sin,
.........but you have yet to show us one single post where someone is going around saying it's okay to sin.
i give up.

God be with you, though.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
217
63
First, most people here voted in the poll that they can die in unrepentant sin such as lying, lusting after women, and hating and still be saved. Second, I have talked with people both online (TOL) and in person who have admitted that they can do really bad and evil things and still be saved while doing so.
First.....all of your polls are bait and switch. You take deep issues and turn them black and white. Void.
Second....l know who you are, l've seen that you've spilled your Gospel of no hope across the internet. Bravo. You are driven.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Actually, you said that a believer can commit suicide (and stay dead) and be forgiven of it. This is wrong for three major reasons.

#1. Teaching that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved gives them the "green light" that they can kill themselves, whether you want them to do that or not. For all they want to hear is... will they make it to Heaven? You are saying in some cases that is a .... "yes." So they will kill themselves. This is wrong.

#2. God says he will destroy that person who will destroy their own temple. The body is a temple. If a person destroys the body, God will destroy their soul (i.e. erase their existence after the Judgment).

#3. Suicide is self murder; And we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15).

When Jesus says all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven, he was talking primarily in reference to the sin of blasphemy. Yes, Jesus also referenced other sins generally. But "all" does not always mean "all" in the Scriptures. So Jesus was not referencing all other sins. His focus was primarily on the topic concerning blasphemy. Jesus also does not say this is the only unforgivable sin. He does not say that.

No it does not give them the green light that it is okay to do that Jason, so please stop because you are digging yourself further in a hole of passing false accusations.

The problem you have is thinking that a person who goes this far to where they feel there is no way out are still in their right mind frame to discern right from wrong. Depression is a serious illness that takes a hold of a person with a very strong grasp.
Yet a good majority of those who commit suicide do ask for forgiveness in the process when they go this far.

So again do some intense studying on illnesses such as depression before you just up and condemn these people, and again take the mercy and forgiveness out of the Lord's hands and place it in yourself.

You completely misunderstand that scripture of the body being the temple, as the body is made up of all believers in the church.
This is not to be taken as each individual person, as defile the temple means those who come into the body of believers for the sole purpose of teaching heresy to draw people away from the truth. Jesus is speaking of the spirit of antichrist here that sneak in to deceive the body of believers.

If you take this as each individual then you are still condemning those that get tattoo's, and once again make forgivable sins unforgivable.

No Jesus was not just referring to blasphemy, notice the conjunction there "and"......
He is not saying all sin of blasphemy, but said all sin and blasphemy both will be forgiven. He only excluded one sin from that list and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Sorry you can not clearly see that and want to continue to make sins that are forgivable to be unforgivable. Whatever you will have to answer to the Lord for this when He asks why you did not have forgiveness or mercy toward these people as He commanded !!! I see where your issue is though and that is you want to change the conjunction word "and" to the word "if" in that scripture. Changing the word of God is very dangerous !!!
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
First.....all of your polls are bait and switch. You take deep issues and turn them black and white. Void.
Second....l know who you are, l've seen that you've spilled your Gospel of no hope across the internet. Bravo. You are driven.
... by whom? The answer is actually pretty scary. And it ain't who he claims is driving him. Jason might be proof tares don't know who they are. That is, if he's not being outright deceptive about why he preaches heresy.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
No it does not give them the green light that it is okay to do that Jason, so please stop because you are digging yourself further in a hole of passing false accusations.

The problem you have is thinking that a person who goes this far to where they feel there is no way out are still in their right mind frame to discern right from wrong. Depression is a serious illness that takes a hold of a person with a very strong grasp.
Yet a good majority of those who commit suicide do ask for forgiveness in the process when they go this far.

So again do some intense studying on illnesses such as depression before you just up and condemn these people, and again take the mercy and forgiveness out of the Lord's hands and place it in yourself.

You completely misunderstand that scripture of the body being the temple, as the body is made up of all believers in the church.
This is not to be taken as each individual person, as defile the temple means those who come into the body of believers for the sole purpose of teaching heresy to draw people away from the truth. Jesus is speaking of the spirit of antichrist here that sneak in to deceive the body of believers.

If you take this as each individual then you are still condemning those that get tattoo's, and once again make forgivable sins unforgivable.

No Jesus was not just referring to blasphemy, notice the conjunction there "and"......
He is not saying all sin of blasphemy, but said all sin and blasphemy both will be forgiven. He only excluded one sin from that list and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Sorry you can not clearly see that and want to continue to make sins that are forgivable to be unforgivable. Whatever you will have to answer to the Lord for this when He asks why you did not have forgiveness or mercy toward these people as He commanded !!! I see where your issue is though and that is you want to change the conjunction word "and" to the word "if" in that scripture. Changing the word of God is very dangerous !!!

I meant to say "and" to the word "of".............................
 
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Rosesrock

Guest
Dear Kenneth:

Also, as for being a slave to sin. Well, serial killers have been known to sometimes kill on just occasion. Does that mean they are not really a serial killer because they do not do it all the time?

Now, it is true, God's grace is there for the person who struggles with sin and or for the person who sins on occasion. But God's grace is not for those who think they can get away with sin either habitually or on occasion. For to say that one will never be able to stop sinning is to give into defeat to sin that it has dominion over you. It is making an allowance or an excuse for sin. It is having the wrong mindset or attitude about sin. A believer should always strive to put sin out of their life and they have to believe God will deliver them from their sin. Why? Because the Scriptures say that sin shall not h ave dominion over you. For whether you sin alot or a little on occasion, if one believes they will forever sin at some point, then sin does indeed have dominion over that person.
Hey jason, i think im tracking you with this one....
Scripture says hot or cold, ill spew you out of my mouth?

This is the christian life, not salvation... but since you dont believe in eternal security. Now i see our difference
 
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psychomom

Guest
Kenneth, i don't agree with everything you say, but it's clear you have a heart...

it's clear you can be merciful and kind.

and your baby girl is stunning. :)
(could i have her? haha)

ps--VW-- professional assessment of my observations?
about myself... (see user name :p))
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Dear Kenneth:

Also, as for being a slave to sin. Well, serial killers have been known to sometimes kill on just occasion. Does that mean they are not really a serial killer because they do not do it all the time?

Now, it is true, God's grace is there for the person who struggles with sin and or for the person who sins on occasion. But God's grace is not for those who think they can get away with sin either habitually or on occasion. For to say that one will never be able to stop sinning is to give into defeat to sin that it has dominion over you. It is making an allowance or an excuse for sin. It is having the wrong mindset or attitude about sin. A believer should always strive to put sin out of their life and they have to believe God will deliver them from their sin. Why? Because the Scriptures say that sin shall not h ave dominion over you. For whether you sin alot or a little on occasion, if one believes they will forever sin at some point, then sin does indeed have dominion over that person.

Stop forgetting the whole concept of repentance and confession !!!!

You want a black or white answer; To you either one is perfect and never sins = salvation........Or they sin, even here or there = condemnation

Your whole concept even though you mention repentance and confession, voids the concept of it.
A serial killer is still slave to sin even if there murders come sparatically, because they never have any repentance or sorrow in them. So once again your debate is flawed in the example you give!!!

But even so if you want to mention a serial killer, lets break it down to how the bible would handle this;

A serial killer spends 25 years killing people and over that time span ends up having 12 victims. After those 25 year killing spree ended and sometime in the future after that something happened to bring them to God, rather it be life in prison, the thought of being put to death, or whatever that brings them to feel true sorrow for what they have done and repented of their lifestyle. They will be forgiven !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
That was directed at Jason.
But....okay.

I know, l know, you said the term was coined by Calvin. Who cares who came up with it. I hate labels anyway.
"OSAS" is just the fastest way to type it....you know, when l'm spreading the truth about OSAS and how the Bible clearly supports it.

Well Reborn that is what you and others have been taught down the line by the elders in the churches you guy's belong to by just pulling a few verses out of the bible to support this doctrine that did not and was not taught in the early church.

There are way to many scriptures that when all of God's word is put into proper context they totally dismiss OSAS.
I have mentioned James 5:19-20 a lot on here as well as others have, and it continually gets rejected by the OSAS supporting crowd. Some of you have even tried to twist it and make it say something else, so I went and posted exactly how the Greek word psuche is used in this verse from the Strong's and Thayer's Greek study guides. It shows this passage is speaking of saving the soul from eternal death !!!
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
ps--VW-- professional assessment of my observations?
about myself... (see user name :p))
My professional opinion is that it is an invalid moniker. But I haven't seen you with your kids, either. It is a compound name, so perhaps the first half of the persona only applies when the second half of the persona is activated


 
Jul 22, 2014
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a simple answer would be lovely...

why do you not take seriously the Biblical admonitions about gathering together and being taught?

wouldn't you accept refusing those would be sin?
I did answer you. You are under the assumption that I need to go to an OSAS church (Which is what most churches today believe). However, do you not know that narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it?

Also, you assume that command applies to going to an actual church building when that is clearly not what it is talking about in regards to fellowship (Because no actual churches that we have today existed back then). In other words, what I am trying to say is that you cannot fellowship be with other believers in a home or online or at work?

You seem to be under the view that the church buildings of today existed back then and that believers did not meet up in people's homes and on missionary journies together.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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God will never forsake us, and when we turn our back on Him then we have walked away from that grace He has shown us.
We can't walk away from God's grace. Its like being outside without shelter trying to walk away from sunshine. And even when its raining, the Sun is still above giving its light. Same thing with God's grace.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Stop forgetting the whole concept of repentance and confession !!!!

You want a black or white answer; To you either one is perfect and never sins = salvation........Or they sin, even here or there = condemnation

Your whole concept even though you mention repentance and confession, voids the concept of it.
A serial killer is still slave to sin even if there murders come sparatically, because they never have any repentance or sorrow in them. So once again your debate is flawed in the example you give!!!
Okay, so a Christian can be serial killer who kills on occasion as long as they confess?

But even so if you want to mention a serial killer, lets break it down to how the bible would handle this;

A serial killer spends 25 years killing people and over that time span ends up having 12 victims. After those 25 year killing spree ended and sometime in the future after that something happened to bring them to God, rather it be life in prison, the thought of being put to death, or whatever that brings them to feel true sorrow for what they have done and repented of their lifestyle. They will be forgiven !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not doubting that serial killers can be forgiven of their killings. But if they are a believer (and they have not been captured by the Law) and they keep killing (even on occasion), have they truly repented?
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
We can't walk away from God's grace. Its like being outside without shelter trying to walk away from sunshine. And even when its raining, the Sun is still above giving its light. Same thing with God's grace.
Galatians 5:4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Christ of no effect = No remission of sins

Fallen from grace = Not under God's grace

The Galatians left God's grace to go back to being justified by the law.......................
 
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Rosesrock

Guest
Galatians 5:4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Christ of no effect = No remission of sins

Fallen from grace = Not under God's grace

The Galatians left God's grace to go back to being justified by the law.......................
Galatians 5 is about christian liberty
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Okay, so a Christian can be serial killer who kills on occasion as long as they confess?



I am not doubting that serial killers can be forgiven of their killings. But if they are a believer (and they have not been captured by the Law) and they keep killing (even on occasion), have they truly repented?

Around and around we go !!!

You are referring to habitual sinning, as if a person keeps doing it with no repentance or no true repentance then they are in habitual sin.........................................

The whole concept of 1 John 2:1 is about future sins committed by a believer, that when confessed the advocate our Lord Jesus Christ will forgive them. Do not take 2:1 out of the equation !!!
This does not give a free reign to sin then confess then sin again, but it does do as I have said previously that if a believer does stumble and confess they will be forgiven rather you like it or not.

And Lord Jesus made a showing that you can not put a limit on how many times this is acceptable, so you can not say well this person did it 5 times so they are saved but this person did 25 so they are not saved. Jesus put a unreachable number on times repentance can be made.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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No it does not give them the green light that it is okay to do that Jason, so please stop because you are digging yourself further in a hole of passing false accusations.
How is it a false accusation if you believe a person can be saved and still commit suicide? Are you saying you don't believe that now? Cannot someone misunderstand you when you say this and do the wrong thing because of this belief?

The problem you have is thinking that a person who goes this far to where they feel there is no way out are still in their right mind frame to discern right from wrong. Depression is a serious illness that takes a hold of a person with a very strong grasp.
Yet a good majority of those who commit suicide do ask for forgiveness in the process when they go this far.
That is not true repentance. One cannot do a particular sin while asking to be forgiven of it. That could mean we can do any kind of sin we like as long as we ask for forgiveness for it during the act. I mean, is an axe murder truly sorry when he says to God that he seeks to be forgiven as he chops off someone's head? No.

So again do some intense studying on illnesses such as depression before you just up and condemn these people, and again take the mercy and forgiveness out of the Lord's hands and place it in yourself.
No, you are looking at the worldy explanation and not what God's Word says. Suicide is a sin that you cannot repent of (If you stay dead).

You completely misunderstand that scripture of the body being the temple, as the body is made up of all believers in the church.
This is not to be taken as each individual person, as defile the temple means those who come into the body of believers for the sole purpose of teaching heresy to draw people away from the truth. Jesus is speaking of the spirit of antichrist here that sneak in to deceive the body of believers.
No way. This is what the passage says,

"Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defiles the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."

In other words, the context is the Spirit of God dwelling in a person and we are not to destroy the temple in which he lives in.

If you take this as each individual then you are still condemning those that get tattoo's, and once again make forgivable sins unforgivable.
I am not sure if tattoos actually decreases a person's life expectancy. But if it came to a point where by doing so did threaten their life and or put it at risk (Whereby they didn't care if it did), then I would see this as a problem. But as a general rule: I do not see the painting of gang signs on one's Temple as being the same as taking a sludge hammer or a tank and trying to knock the temple down.

No Jesus was not just referring to blasphemy, notice the conjunction there "and"......
He is not saying all sin of blasphemy, but said all sin and blasphemy both will be forgiven. He only excluded one sin from that list and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Sorry you can not clearly see that and want to continue to make sins that are forgivable to be unforgivable. Whatever you will have to answer to the Lord for this when He asks why you did not have forgiveness or mercy toward these people as He commanded !!! I see where your issue is though and that is you want to change the conjunction word "and" to the word "if" in that scripture. Changing the word of God is very dangerous !!!
We know the Bible cannot contradict itself. If we know that a person cannot repent of suicide and they stay dead, they cannot be forgiven of such a sin, then we know that the passage you are talking about is not in reference to "all" sin on an exhaustive scale. Jesus was referencing sin in general. If Jesus were to also bring up suicide, it would have confused the issue or point he was trying to make in regards to blasphemy.
 
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