probably the greatest weakness of Hebrew Roots

[Grace777x70]

The law of Moses is the one that those in Christ have died to, are released from and are not under. This includes the 10 commandments.

Paul said that coveting was brought out in him by the hearing of the Law. The law did it's job and exposed his need for a Savior.

There is no such thing as "separating out the Law"...that is a man-made tradition so that they can say we live by the 10 commandments. We live by the life of Christ now who fulfilled the Law not by the keeping of external laws.

Romans 7:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great article that speaks about what is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ. I like to use this website as it has at the bottom a place where you can ask questions and sometimes I learn from that area a lot.

The Law Written on Our Hearts is not the Ten Commandments

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,” says the Lord. “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” (Heb 10:16)

“This is obviously a reference to the law of Moses,” says the law-preacher. “The Ten Commandments were written in stone, now they’re written in the hearts and minds of God’s people.”

Not true. Here are seventeen reasons why God has not written the Ten Commandments on your heart:

1. The law inflames sin (Rom 5:20) and the strength of sin is the law (1 Cor 15:56). Why would God want to stir up sin in your life?


2. The law condemns (2 Cor 3:9), yet there is no condemnation to those in Christ.


3. The law ministers death (2 Cor 3:7), but God wants you to enjoy abundant life.


4. Law and grace don’t mix. You are under grace, not law (Rom 6:14).


5. Living by the law will alienate you from Christ (Gal 5:4).


6. Living by the law is cheating on Jesus (Rom 7:1-6). Why would God do anything to encourage spiritual adultery?


7. We’re to live by faith but the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12). The law encourages us to depend on ourselves instead of Jesus.


8. Those who live under the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10). Why would God curse those he has blessed?


9. The law binds and enslaves (Rom 7:6), but Jesus wants you free.


10. The law keeps you immature for it makes nothing perfect or complete (Heb 7:19).


11. We have died to the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and “not in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6).


12. When there has been a change of priesthood, the law must be changed also (Heb 7:12). For God to write the old law on our hearts would be like saying Aaron is greater than Jesus.


13. God found fault with the law-keeping covenant and made it obsolete (Heb 8:7,13). Why would God insult his Son’s sacrifice by giving you the very thing his sacrifice rendered obsolete?


14. The law is a shadow of the good things to come and not the reality (Heb 10:1). Why would God give you the shadow instead of “the good thing”?


15. The Jews considered the law to be ordained by angels (Heb 2:2). If so, says the author of Hebrews, then it is inferior to the gospel of Jesus (Heb 1:4). Why would God give you an inferior gift?


16. Some Christians think that God gives them the law as a guide to live by, but why would God want you to repeat the mistake of the Galatians (Gal 3:2)? Why would God do anything to make you fall from grace?


17. The old law-keeping covenant required an accounting or remembering of sin, but the new covenant is characterized by God forgiving and forgetting on account of Jesus (Heb 10:17). If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, then Jesus died for nothing.

If God has written the Ten Commandments on your heart and mind, you should be able to list all ten with no trouble. Can you? What’s the seventh commandment? You can’t do it because it’s not there, and a very good thing that is too! If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, you’re in big trouble.

The good news is that God has written in us a far better law. What is this new and better law?

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...-commandments/

 

[PeterJens]

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:8-10

We are not under the law but we fulfill the law by loving in Christs transforming power.

The form of faith has changed but its core principles remain the same.

Unfortunately some like G7 can only ever repeat the propoganda of Hyper Grace from the
escape to reality web site, and condemn anyone who they think comes close to legalism,
which is everyone outside their group as "anti-christs"

The idea we are called to walk in righteousness and be righteous is their enemy and those
who hold to this in any form they oppose, twist and distort everyones position, and create
lots of conflict and division hoping others get annoyed and break the forums rules.
This is their strategy and approach.

 

[Grace777x70]

What some extreme sects of the Hebrew Roots teachings do is - unfortunately they exchange the life of Christ Himself in us for keeping the law of Moses.

We can't be left hanging here about what or rather Who is written on our hearts now that we are in Christ. We are joined as one spirit with the Lord Jesus Christ in our inner man - the new creation. He is our life! Ga. 2:20 Col. 3:3

What is this new law that is written on our hearts seeing as we know it's not the ten commandments in the form given in the Law.

What is this New Covenant that Ezekiel is prophesying about that was to come and now is here manifested in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection?

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts?

Six-hundred years before Jesus came, the prophet Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant that God would make with his people:


“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” (Jer 31:33-34)

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

• It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.

• It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.

• It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Christ Himself.

Let’s look at three things the New Testament says about the new law in our hearts.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.”

But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)

God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

• Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.

• Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.

• Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6).

What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)? It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals His righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy.

Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus Himself.

How do you know He’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin. Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...on-our-hearts/

 

[MacBestus]

You can paste in articles faster than I can type on my phone. But i will go through these step by step using scripture to prove sin is not good. I know sin is pleasurable but it angers our father. And you wont like what it pays.

Proverbs 20:17 Bread of deceit is sweet to a man; but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel.

Hebrews 11:25 lets us know sin is pleasurable....for a season.

 

[Grace777x70]

You can paste in articles faster than I can type on my phone. But i will go through these step by step using scripture to prove sin is not good. I know sin is pleasurable but it angers our father. And you wont like what it pays.

Proverbs 20:17 Bread of deceit is sweet to a man; but afterwards his mouth shall be filled with gravel.

Hebrews 11:25 lets us know sin is pleasurable....for a season.

I am really not trying to convince you of anything - that is the Holy Spirit's role. I am just putting out on the thread what I believe is true about the gospel of Christ. Others can read it and make their own minds up about that they believe. I will put it all in the hands of the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to us.

With that - I will leave this thread as I have said all that is necessary as Paul says avoid controversies of the law as they are unprofitable and worthless. Titus 3:9. I bid you well as you walk in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do definitely agree that sin is destructive but deliverance from sin is not found in the law - it is found in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and in the fact that we too have died with Him and have risen to newness of life - not in the oldness of the letter.

Sin is deceitful and distorts our view of our loving Father, it distorts our view of others and of ourselves as well. It promises "life" but there is no real life there. It is a deception. The only life to be found is in the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Sin destroys us, our loved ones and our witness of the goodness of the Lord to others in the world that need to know and see His love and grace towards them.

Walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires. We have a new heart now in Christ - walk by the life of Christ in us now in the new creation which ahs been created in righteousness and holiness.

Christ Himself is our only true life. - And of Him all the law and the prophets testified of Him.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Sigh. Okay...

"If the Christian has*died to the law*of Moses,*been released from the law*of Moses and*is not under the*law of Moses anymore because we have died with Christ on the cross and been raised from the dead with Christ in His resurrection - how are we to live now?*What will govern our lives now since we are in Christ?"

Ummmmm, Christ??

 

[MacBestus]

I am really not trying to convince you of anything - that is the Holy Spirit's role. I am just putting out on the thread what I believe is true about the gospel of Christ. Others can read it and make their own minds up about that they believe. I will put it all in the hands of the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to us.

With that - I will leave this thread as I have said all that is necessary as Paul says avoid controversies of the law as they are unprofitable and worthless. Titus 3:9. I bid you well as you walk in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do definitely agree that sin is destructive but deliverance from sin is not found in the law - it is found in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and in the fact that we too have died with Him and have risen to newness of life - not in the oldness of the letter.

Sin is deceitful and distorts our view of our loving Father, it distorts our view of others and of ourselves as well. It promises "life" but there is no real life there. It is a deception. The only life to be found is in the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Sin destroys us, our loved ones and our witness of the goodness of the Lord to others in the world that need to know and see His love and grace towards them.

Walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires. We have a new heart now in Christ - walk by the life of Christ in us now in the new creation which ahs been created in righteousness and holiness.

Christ Himself is our only true life. - And of Him all the law and the prophets testified of Him.

I am glad that you admit sin is bad. And i am sorry you feel the need to run before rebuttal. That being said. I and most other HRM never say sin for salvation. That is a false witness. We say as Paul did that we keep the law because we are saved. And so we try to have nothingng more to do with sin.

We are not under the law for salvation. We are saved by Yahshuas Grace. Should we therefore sin? YHWH forbid.

Why do you hate this so? It is as messiah walked. It is as all the apostles walked. It is as the early church walked.

Paul said law breaking angers our father. Why would uou want to do that?

If your earthly father doesn't like having his ear pulled, he says it pains him, would you keep doing it to prove he loves you so much he wont spank you for doing what pains him? What kind of logic is that?

 

[MacBestus]

Ummmmm, Christ??

you know that the quotes around that block show thay the comment was originally by Grace777x70 that I was responding to right? Not something i had said.Lol

 

[FreeNChrist]

you know that the quotes around that block show thay the comment was originally by Grace777x70 that I was responding to right? Not something i had said.Lol

Thats what the "quote" feature ^^^ is for.

The answer remains. Jesus didn’t save us in order to return us to the ministry of condemnation and death that led us to Him. He saved us in order to free us from it, by being Himself, in us, our divine directive.

 

[Grace777x70]

Thats what the "quote" feature ^^^ is for.

The answer remains. Jesus didn’t save us in order to return us to the ministry of condemnation and death that led us to Him. He saved us in order to free us from it, by being Himself, in us, our divine directive.

I saw this comment and so I wanted to respond to it.

I agree about the ministry of condemnation vs. the ministry of life which is Christ Himself. Jesus said "I am the Life" - not that "The Law of Moses is the life".

The law is holy but it is not for us - the righteous ones that are in Christ. All the law was fulfilled in Christ and we are in Him.

Jesus said that the priest which stand in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are not guilty - why? He said because they were in the temple. We are the temple now of the living God.

The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.

The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12

The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.

The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".

It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.

 

[MacBestus]

Thats what the "quote" feature ^^^ is for.

The answer remains. Jesus didn’t save us in order to return us to the ministry of condemnation and death that led us to Him. He saved us in order to free us from it, by being Himself, in us, our divine directive.

Breaking quotes is hard for me on my phonr so i eschewed technology for plain English...thats what the quote marks are for lol. Its obvious you wanted to say that to show that despite the teachings of the bible and the quotes from Paul you ignored in the post you replied to, you think sin is good and YHWHs law bad. But without any verse to back it up....

 

[FreeNChrist]

Breaking quotes is hard for me on my phonr so i eschewed technology for plain English...thats what the quote marks are for lol. Its obvious you wanted to say that to show that despite the teachings of the bible and the quotes from Paul you ignored in the post you replied to, you think sin is good and YHWHs law bad. But without any verse to back it up....

Right. What I wanted to say was that I think sin is good......

You're true colors are showing.

 

[MacBestus]

Right. What I wanted to say was that I think sin is good......

You're true colors are showing.

They were never hidden You preach the doctrine it is okay to sin. I say it is not.

Or maybe it is correct to say you preach it is impossible to sin?

If i am wrong please show me how. I am not trying to insult you. Nor am I saying we must keep the law to be saved. I am saying that once saved we are to sin no more... Am i wrong i ask again? Chapter and verse please....

 

[PeterJens]

Breaking quotes is hard for me on my phonr so i eschewed technology for plain English...thats what the quote marks are for lol. Its obvious you wanted to say that to show that despite the teachings of the bible and the quotes from Paul you ignored in the post you replied to, you think sin is good and YHWHs law bad. But without any verse to back it up....

This particular group are ex-legalists who now live under constant condemnation which is
made worse by reading the law and the sermon on the mount.
Their escape is though they feel condemnation, God has forgiven them so the condemnation
is from the enemy and they should feel forgiven because of the perfect spirit they have now
become with a sinful flesh, dualist theology close to gnosticism.

They love to deny all the above or play around being innocents using christian language of
repentance but redefining everything. It is like dealing with a shape shifter, lol.

For my part, if you follow Christ hallelujah, welcome brother, for these guys we are all
anti-christs, slanderers, evil, the lowest of the low, which is the true fruit of their
doctrines and ideas.

 

[FreeNChrist]

They were never hidden You preach the doctrine it is okay to sin. I say it is not.

Or maybe it is correct to say you preach it is impossible to sin?

If i am wrong please show me how. I am not trying to insult you. Nor am I saying we must keep the law to be saved. I am saying that once saved we are to sin no more... Am i wrong i ask again? Chapter and verse please....

I have a better idea. You get back to me when you can show where I have ever said I believe any of those things you are projecting unto me.

 

[MacBestus]

I have a better idea. You get back to me when you can show where I have ever said I believe any of those things you are projecting unto me.

When you preached we no longer need to keep the law. Breaking the law is sin. At least according to Paul and John.

Paul told us not to sin because of Grace.


We do not keep the law for salvation. We keep the law to not sin.

As messiah said....Go forth and sin NO MORE! Which (sin) is defined as breaking the law.

Messiah outranks anyone else who ever walked this planet. Even Paul who agreed with this. Even YOU!

The law has not changed.

The definition of sin has not changed.

Either we keep the law to please our Father and show love to our brethren.

Or we sin (which is breaking the law) to please ourselves.

There are no other choices given in Scripture.

Have I stated wrong when I stated you are not in the camp of living sin free as possible? (law keepers)

Do you try and keep the law?

Understand, we all sin. We all break the law. That is why we NEED Grace.


But some of us break the law willfully. Not even trying to cease sinning. Which again is defined by breaking the law.

You have repeatedly put yourself in the Sin Doctrine Camp verses the Law Doctrine Camp. Or did I miss something?

 

[FreeNChrist]

When you preached we no longer need to keep the law. Breaking the law is sin. At least according to Paul and John.

Paul told us not to sin because of Grace.


We do not keep the law for salvation. We keep the law to not sin.

As messiah said....Go forth and sin NO MORE! Which (sin) is defined as breaking the law.

Messiah outranks anyone else who ever walked this planet. Even Paul who agreed with this. Even YOU!

The law has not changed.

The definition of sin has not changed.

Either we keep the law to please our Father and show love to our brethren.

Or we sin (which is breaking the law) to please ourselves.

There are no other choices given in Scripture.

Have I stated wrong when I stated you are not in the camp of living sin free as possible? (law keepers)

Do you try and keep the law?

Understand, we all sin. We all break the law. That is why we NEED Grace.


But some of us break the law willfully. Not even trying to cease sinning. Which again is defined by breaking the law.

You have repeatedly put yourself in the Sin Doctrine Camp verses the Law Doctrine Camp. Or did I miss something?

Yeah, you missed something alright.

 

[MacBestus]

Yeah, you missed something alright.

As I said...chapter and verse. Or is that all you have? Snide remarks and a rolling eye emoticon? Put substance to the third choice or else all will know this is just your opinion. And that you choose it over scripture.

 

[FreeNChrist]

As I said...chapter and verse. Or is that all you have? Snide remarks and a rolling eye emoticon? Put substance to the third choice or else all will know this is just your opinion. And that you choose it over scripture.

LOL. You falsely accuse me and then you want to dialog?