Profanity from claiming "Christians"

[posthuman]

I would have to disagree.

As with everything else, Jesus Christ must always be our example.

It is written of Christ that "out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword" (Rev. 1:16), and, of course, we all recognize that the "sharp two-edged sword" refers to the word of God:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb. 4:12)

In other words, as Christ said oftentimes in ways very similar to the following:

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." (John 12:49)

If we are to properly represent Christ upon this earth, then we need to be careful to only speak that which the Father would have us to speak as Christ did himself.

Jesus only spoke the incorruptible seed of the word of God (I Pet. 1:23), and this is why I deliberately chose to cite the verse which instructs us to "let no corrupt communication proceed out of our mouths".

Would Jesus be swearing like a sailor?

Of course, he would not be, and neither should we be.

Again, we should only be speaking "that which is good to the use of edifying" or building up, but that can be a little tricky because we oftentimes need to root out, pull down, destroy, or throw down in order to properly build up or plant (Jer. 1:10).

Our underlying motive in everything that we say or do must be to "minister grace unto our hearers", but, again, we oftentimes need to rebuke in order that others might truly repent and be recipients of God's grace.

When it comes to the vocabulary that we employ in this process, we must strive to be careful to stay within the parameters of scripture.

God/Jesus said some pretty strong things throughout scripture in order to hopefully awaken people to their true conditions, and I've similarly employed some pretty strong language in my own dealings with people over the years.

HOWEVER, unlike God/Jesus, I have admittedly crossed the line at times, and I've needed to repent myself after doing so.

i just don't think that 'corrupt communication' should be tacitly assumed to be 'swear words'
'swear words' are a subjective subset of vocabulary. but objectively if i call someone "a sack of poop" the only difference between that & calling them "a sack of ####" is that i've tried to dress up my insulting, non-edifying comment. i've tried to polish my turd, so to speak.

having read that paragraph, now ask yourself, did i sin by saying any of those words or keep myself from sinning by putting #### instead of the word we all know i was intending? did i sin by bringing it up. is there a 'holy word' i should use if i need to have a conversation about defecation, or do i sin if i mention it at all?

so i meant to point out that Ephesians 4:29 gives us a definition of what he's talking about when he says 'corrupt communication,' because he gives us what the opposite meaning is. 'corrupt communication' is anything that is not edifying & does not minister grace to the hearer. to the hearer indicates that the person we're speaking to has a lot to do with how 'corrupt communication' is defined, and you don't have to use certain vocabulary in order to be edifying. you don't have to avoid certain vocabulary in order to be edifying. the property of being edifying has to do with the intent & content of what you say, and how well it is communicated.

so i'm not trying to excuse 'vulgar speech' ((tho the word 'vulgar' only means 'common' -- i.e. how the 'not rich people' speak)), i'm pointing out that, IMO, this is not a verse about avoiding the word 'damn' but about being careful and purposeful and wise about the things you communicate to others. chatting about the Kardashians or how much you wish democrats would all drop dead is moreso 'corrupt communication' than uttering an expletive when you smash your thumb in a cabinet door.


as far as what the world considers 'swear words' to me that's more like the concept of not causing your brother to stumble by eating meat waved before an idol in front of him if his conscious is bothered by it. language is a tool to communicate ideas. it's the ideas that are the important things, and how well the 'tool' is used to convey them, not whether you got your tools from Oxford or Yale or you're using things Harbor Freight had on sale. but if my brother is offended by torx-bit screwdrivers ((and 'the church' indeed brings people up to be so offended, giving an appearance of righteousness through self-imposed outward behavioral modification)) then i guess i'll make do with a flathead. i got no problem with that.

i really don't think 'whitewashing a tomb' is Paul's intent here. a great many people say despicable things with grand, flowery words.

 

[Live4Him]

i just don't think that 'corrupt communication' should be tacitly assumed to be 'swear words'
'swear words' are a subjective subset of vocabulary. but objectively if i call someone "a sack of poop" the only difference between that & calling them "a sack of ####" is that i've tried to dress up my insulting, non-edifying comment. i've tried to polish my turd, so to speak.

having read that paragraph, now ask yourself, did i sin by saying any of those words or keep myself from sinning by putting #### instead of the word we all know i was intending? did i sin by bringing it up. is there a 'holy word' i should use if i need to have a conversation about defecation, or do i sin if i mention it at all?

so i meant to point out that Ephesians 4:29 gives us a definition of what he's talking about when he says 'corrupt communication,' because he gives us what the opposite meaning is. 'corrupt communication' is anything that is not edifying & does not minister grace to the hearer. to the hearer indicates that the person we're speaking to has a lot to do with how 'corrupt communication' is defined, and you don't have to use certain vocabulary in order to be edifying. you don't have to avoid certain vocabulary in order to be edifying. the property of being edifying has to do with the intent & content of what you say, and how well it is communicated.

so i'm not trying to excuse 'vulgar speech' ((tho the word 'vulgar' only means 'common' -- i.e. how the 'not rich people' speak)), i'm pointing out that, IMO, this is not a verse about avoiding the word 'damn' but about being careful and purposeful and wise about the things you communicate to others. chatting about the Kardashians or how much you wish democrats would all drop dead is moreso 'corrupt communication' than uttering an expletive when you smash your thumb in a cabinet door.


as far as what the world considers 'swear words' to me that's more like the concept of not causing your brother to stumble by eating meat waved before an idol in front of him if his conscious is bothered by it. language is a tool to communicate ideas. it's the ideas that are the important things, and how well the 'tool' is used to convey them, not whether you got your tools from Oxford or Yale or you're using things Harbor Freight had on sale. but if my brother is offended by torx-bit screwdrivers ((and 'the church' indeed brings people up to be so offended, giving an appearance of righteousness through self-imposed outward behavioral modification)) then i guess i'll make do with a flathead. i got no problem with that.

i really don't think 'whitewashing a tomb' is Paul's intent here. a great many people say despicable things with grand, flowery words.

No offense, but I'm amazed at the lengths certain people are going to in order to defend certain types of speech.

Again, my simple suggestion is as follows:

If Jesus wouldn't say it, then we, as those who profess to follow him, shouldn't say it either.

Is it really that difficult for some people here to just say "Amen" to the obvious?

 

[posthuman]

No offense, but I'm amazed at the lengths certain people are going to in order to defend certain types of speech.

c'mon now, didn't you read my post? i'm not defending offending people with your vocabulary.
i'm saying that this is about our heart, not about our clothes. put on fine clothes, sure! but if our heart isn't changed, that's where the object of our repentance needs to be. and if our hearts are truly changed, what will follow? do we doubt it?

putting on sheep's clothing never made anyone *not a wolf* -- tho they may deceive many. that's all i want to get across.

 

[posthuman]

changing your vocabulary in order to 'appear Christian' is by very definition, superficial.
the Bible isn't giving us superficial advice.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

No offense, but I'm amazed at the lengths certain people are going to in order to defend certain types of speech.

Again, my simple suggestion is as follows:

If Jesus wouldn't say it, then we, as those who profess to follow him, shouldn't say it either.

Is it really that difficult for some people here to just say "Amen" to the obvious?

I don't know how you managed to attribute those quoted words to me, but ya somehow managed to.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

AS a former sailor I know full well how to cuss as one. Yet there is a time and place for certain communication. Profanity is aha bit and can be changed in the Christian. Some people I know who have been saved not long ago still have these issues. God will work them out. But we are to ensure our language is seasoned with grace and love.

Agree totally.
Making sure we season our words with grace and love.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Hello YMPMI, sadly, there are a lot of folks who "claim" to be Christian but are not. In fact, the Lord tells us that what we say/how we speak can be an indicator of who we really are (or are not) .. e.g. Matthew 12:34-37. That said, the Bible makes it clear that profanity and harsh language is unacceptable for true believers (in most situations anyway) .. e.g. Ephesians 5:4; Colossians 3:8.

Perhaps you should pray for your dog-walking neighbor (and even get to know him if you can), for his sake (so that you'll truly know how to pray for him .. and help him find the Lord if he is CINO).

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - along with my favorite verse concerning this issue .. Ephesians 4:29 (this is a blind post by me, but surely this verse has already been posted in this thread), here's a similar thought from missionary Amy Carmichael.

Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word
as is good for edification, according to the need of the moment,
so that it will give grace to those who hear.
Ephesians 4:29​

.

What about the true rotten monsters of this world? It might be the right thing to do to tell him he a rotten monster that is head straight to hell.

 

[Live4Him]

I don't know how you managed to attribute those quoted words to me, but ya somehow managed to.

I have no idea how that happened, but it certainly wasn't intentional.

I clicked "reply"...don't know what happened after that...???

 

[posthuman]

OK this is off topic but -- it edifies

If you're one who professes Jesus as Lord, then give him your lips.

i do agree with the sense of what you say here, but your words are wrong. ((sin? you decide)):

how do i "give" something that's not my own?



i can't.
what i do is relinquish my false claim of ownership, which isn't the same as "giving" -- i let go of what i thought i could steal. turn myself in. plead no lo contendere.

 

[Live4Him]

how do i "give" something that's not my own?



i can't.
what i do is relinquish my false claim of ownership, which isn't the same as "giving" -- i let go of what i thought i could steal.

Again, I'm literally stunned at the lengths some of you are going to.

All of these words when a simple "Amen" would have sufficed.

Whatever.

 

[posthuman]

All of these words when a simple "Amen" would have sufficed.

and let you keep going using bad vocabulary?

then i would be in sin, bro.

 

[Live4Him]

and let you keep going using bad vocabulary?

then i would be in sin, bro.

You're already in sin here, but I'll leave it to God to show you the same.

You can have the last word or words.

Perhaps you'd like to call me a sack of ####?

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[notuptome]

There is no reason to use profanity. Only those who are unsanctified use profanity.

If you talk like a sailor or a drunken sailor just stop it. Cease from that which defiles your testimony for Christ. No excuse is an acceptable reason to use profanity.

We are told to be holy as the Lord is holy.

If it is language that is not appropriate in front of women or children and not something you would say in church do not say it anywhere.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You're already in sin here, but I'll leave it to God to show you the same.

You can have the last word or words.

Perhaps you'd like to call me a sack of ####?

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me.

Again with the judgment that is not ours to cast.
Yet it specific words that are the problem. Sorry , that's out of line.
You accuse the man of sin, yet aren't willing to name it, and accused him falsely or desiring to call you a derogatory name, when he has not indicated so; in any form or fashion.
Yet it's the vernacular that is the problem. I don't think so. What you have done is expressly forbidden, but you wish to rather impose on others that which is a cultural construct.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

There is no reason to use profanity. Only those who are unsanctified use profanity.

If you talk like a sailor or a drunken sailor just stop it. Cease from that which defiles your testimony for Christ. No excuse is an acceptable reason to use profanity.

We are told to be holy as the Lord is holy.

If it is language that is not appropriate in front of women or children and not something you would say in church do not say it anywhere.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No one is talking about profanity, we are talking about specific words that are deemed profanity by a social construct that supports actual profanity, and vulgarity while knocking down straw men.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

There is no reason to use profanity. Only those who are unsanctified use profanity.

If you talk like a sailor or a drunken sailor just stop it. Cease from that which defiles your testimony for Christ. No excuse is an acceptable reason to use profanity.

We are told to be holy as the Lord is holy.

If it is language that is not appropriate in front of women or children and not something you would say in church do not say it anywhere.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No one is talking about profanity, we are talking about specific words that are deemed profanity by a social construct that supports actual profanity, and vulgarity while knocking down straw men

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Actual profanity is to use that which is Holy as a common thing and treat that which is common as Holy.

 

[Deuteronomy]

What about the true rotten monsters of this world? It might be the right thing to do to tell him he a rotten monster that is head straight to hell.

We are to always speak the truth to others .. in love (but how we accomplish that can be different in different situations, of course).

I remember a street evangelist (when I was in college) who walked right up, handed you a Gospel of John, and delivered this short and memorable 4 word message, "You're going to Hell" It wasn't what you might think of as being "gracious" right off the bat, but it was certainly thought-provoking and memorable (even 45 years later ), which is what this particular evangelist was apparently after.

I know that course/abrupt language is the only thing certain groups of people hear or pay attention to, so if that's the reason that a Christian ends up using otherwise inappropriate language, I'm for it. However, the careless use of words (which would normally include the use of course language/profanity) is a Biblical no-no that comes with a pretty serious warning from the Lord (see v36-37 below).

Matthew 12​

34 You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.​

35 The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.​

36 But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting of it on the day of judgment.​

37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.​

​

 

[oyster67]

A guy was taking his 3 dogs for a walk and stopped by my daughter's house (she lives across the street from me). I asked Hubby if he knew him, and he said yes, he's acquainted with him... "claims he's a "Christian" yet swears like a sailor".

If we claim to be "Christian's, we should ACT and Speak the part as well. Yeshua tells us to lay off profanity and unclean tongues, etc... and if we TRULY love Him as we tell others we do, then we wouldn't want to do any of these things. Right?

Your thoughts?

Yes. Amen. Old habits die hard. Thanks for reminding me. Please pray for me. I know how bad it sounds when I hear others do it. You are right, I don't want to do it. Please pray for me. I want to grow in the Lord. A little deeper every day.

 

[CS1]

There is no reason to use profanity. Only those who are unsanctified use profanity.

If you talk like a sailor or a drunken sailor just stop it. Cease from that which defiles your testimony for Christ. No excuse is an acceptable reason to use profanity.

We are told to be holy as the Lord is holy.

If it is language that is not appropriate in front of women or children and not something you would say in church do not say it anywhere.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Just want to say most sailors do not have to be drunk to cuss. That is a false narrative they cuss just as much sober LOL