Promoting Half-truth

[Nuhen]

There are three main branches of Pentecostalism: the baptismal Pentecostals, the holiness Pentecostals, and the oneness Pentecostals. There are a few of the holiness groups and a large portion of the oneness groups that hold to the doctrine that speaking in tongues is neccessary for salvation. Probably less than 10% of Pentecostals hold to that.

I'd say four main branches, actually. You've got Assemblies of G-d Pentecostals too.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Not at all. I am claiming that it is not accurate to promote that the official church teaching of ALL Pentecostal churches is that salvation relies on the second baptism of the Holy Spirit.

but if there are some that do then aren't you guilty yourself of promoting half-truths

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I'd say four main branches, actually. You've got Assemblies of G-d Pentecostals too.

The AG is baptismal. The baptismal Pentecostal churches are Wesleyan not "baptist". They differ from the holiness churches in that they view the baptism of the Holy Spirit as an enpowerment rather than an act of sanctification.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Can you prove that? I know quite a few Catholics, including my fiancee, and I've studied Catholicism quite a bit. I've never seen them teach that.

you have never heard a catholic say that you have to do the 7 sacraments in order to be saved?????

 

[aspen]

I tend to believe than God could careless about 95% of the issues we think are critical to our Christianity. Are we allowing Christ to love through us? If so Great! If we are more concerned with getting our theological ducks in a row, however, we need to get to the important part - loving God and our neighbor.

Straightening out theological errors is simple compared to making up for a lifetime of refusing God's sanctification

 

[aspen]

you have never heard a catholic say that you have to do the 7 sacraments in order to be saved?????

Of course, it is the heart change - the sanctification involved in doing the seven sacraments that is the only thing that matters, but hey.....it is much more salacious the way you say it

 

[Nuhen]

you have never heard a catholic say that you have to do the 7 sacraments in order to be saved?????

Nope. Every Catholic I know believes the grace of G-d is what saves.

 

[Nuhen]

The AG is baptismal. The baptismal Pentecostal churches are Wesleyan not "baptist". They differ from the holiness churches in that they view the baptism of the Holy Spirit as an enpowerment rather than an act of sanctification.

Ah, okay. I see what you're saying now.

 

[aspen]

but if there are some that do then aren't you guilty yourself of promoting half-truths

I think you need to re-read my first post.

 

[Nuhen]

I tend to believe than God could careless about 95% of the issues we think are critical to our Christianity. Are we allowing Christ to love through us? If so Great! If we are more concerned with getting our theological ducks in a row, however, we need to get to the important part - loving God and our neighbor.

Straightening out theological errors is simple compared to making up for a lifetime of refusing God's sanctification

I agree. Personally, I can't tell you how many churches I've been to where I was asked to leave simply for my theological differences. I didn't parade them around or anything, I just said what I was when asked. In some cases, I was asked to leave soon as I walked in, because I go to church wearing my full Jewish gear. Shawl, kippah, suit, whole nine yards.

Kinda sad. I support unity between the followers of G-d. My interest is in worshiping with those I believe to be my brethren.

 

[aspen]

I agree. Personally, I can't tell you how many churches I've been to where I was asked to leave simply for my theological differences. I didn't parade them around or anything, I just said what I was when asked. In some cases, I was asked to leave soon as I walked in, because I go to church wearing my full Jewish gear. Shawl, kippah, suit, whole nine yards.

Kinda sad. I support unity between the followers of G-d. My interest is in worshiping with those I believe to be my brethren.

Wow - that is sad.

Theology is a hobby, Christ loving through us is our sanctification

 

[Harley_Angel]

Wow, and they let me into church wearing a pirate costume and toteing a 7ft tall athiest man with a black trenchcoat that has a pentegram on it...I hate hearing when people are so intolerant. Church isn't a private club, it's supposed to be a place that welcomes anybody who is willing to open their minds and hearts to Christ and who wants to learn. Medicine is for the SICK, not the healthy.

 

[Nuhen]

Wow, and they let me into church wearing a pirate costume and toteing a 7ft tall athiest man with a black trenchcoat that has a pentegram on it...I hate hearing when people are so intolerant. Church isn't a private club, it's supposed to be a place that welcomes anybody who is willing to open their minds and hearts to Christ and who wants to learn. Medicine is for the SICK, not the healthy.

I agree But, that's just how it is some places.

 

[Graybeard]

This is why I can't go to a "church".....so many different beliefs and doctrines, this one says that one is wrong that one says this one is wrong and they all have scripture to back up their belief.....yet we all are supposed to love each other and follow Jesus Christ?
Why can't we just have simple old fellowship and praise/worship our Lord in agreement??.....Jesus Himself said that unless one becomes like a child they will not enter His Kingdom...how tragic it is that we choose to ignore this simple truth!!

 

[aspen]

This is why I can't go to a "church".....so many different beliefs and doctrines, this one says that one is wrong that one says this one is wrong and they all have scripture to back up their belief.....yet we all are supposed to love each other and follow Jesus Christ?
Why can't we just have simple old fellowship and praise/worship our Lord in agreement??.....Jesus Himself said that unless one becomes like a child they will not enter His Kingdom...how tragic it is that we choose to ignore this simple truth!!

......Amen

 

[sunshine_debbie]

I'm Anglican, so I'm diet-Catholic. There is a lot I don't agree with that the Catholics do, but there is a lot I don't agree with that everybody else does, too. If I hated everyone who didn't do things they way I thought they should be done, I'd spend all my time hating...which...again...like ruling the world...does not leave me without enough sleep time.

Unfortunately, a lot of people who hate Catholics have never actually set foot in a Catholic church or done any sort of research with a normal Joe who attends Mass. I think a lot of people would be suprised to go to a Catholic Mass and see that it was singing, praying, a sermon, more singing and praying, communion, followed by singing and praying...which, oddly enough sounds like the same thing I do in EVERY other church I've been to, only with more kneeling and some body crossing arm exercises.

My Nana was Catholic and my parents were a Baptist minister and his wife. When we would go with my Nana she would sneak us to Mass with her so I learned a lot of different stuff. (Not that my parents knew)

When I got older I spent a year of high school (private Christian school) studying comparative religion. Granted it was a little (ok a lot) skewed towards Christianity. But there are differences. But there are things that they have as common ground

But praying to saints and to Mary to intercede for us to God, when we can go to him ourselves, is never going to go over in a Protestant religion.

Baptism is immersion, not sprinkling at birth, and we dont cross ourselves. (Although I dont know why, its kinda cool)

But there are similarities that are very important for instance, both religions believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

So we can all sometimes get along right?

Debbie

 

[aspen]

there are differences. But there are things that they have as common ground

Indeed.

But praying to saints and to Mary to intercede for us to God, when we can go to him ourselves, is never going to go over in a Protestant religion.

I think you are right, but I am not sure why. When I was Protestant I used to mistake prayer for worship - that is why I was against praying to Mary, but I do not think this why most Protestants disagree. Praying to Mary is just like asking your friend to pray for you - there is no difference.

Baptism is immersion, not sprinkling at birth, and we dont cross ourselves. (Although I dont know why, its kinda cool)

Catholic dunk and sprinkle - all new catholic churches have baptismals. The Early Church started sprinkling when water was scarce - the Catholic Church just continued the practice, but is certainly not opposed to dunking. I tend to think making this distinction is on legalistic side, but if it really matters to some they should dunk.

But there are similarities that are very important for instance, both religions believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

YES!!!!

Yes we can get along! We just need to focus on the similarities.

 

[karuna]

you have never heard a catholic say that you have to do the 7 sacraments in order to be saved?????

I certainly hope not. If so, single people, those who haven't taken orders, and those who haven't gotten sick enough to warrant anointing are out of luck.

 

[aspen]

Here is another half-truth....

Israel is the only nation guilty of murder.

Israel is responsible for all the problems in the middle east.

 

[pickles]

Here's an idea, let's stop promoting half-truths.

If you disagree with RCC doctrine do not misrepresent their doctrine.

- the church does not practice simony
- the church does not worship mary or any other saints
- the church does not teach us to pray to statues.

If you disagree with LDS doctrine do not misrepresent their doctrine.

- the church teaches that Jesus and satan and all of us are God's children and therefore spirit brothers and sisters - it is not an attempt to equate satan with Christ.

- the church does not practice polygamy.

- the church does not teach that God was once adam.

If you disagree with Pentecostals do not misrepresent their doctrine.

- the church does not teach that second baptism is necessary for salvation.
- that all Pentecostals deny the Trinity.
- the church does not promote anti-intellectualism

Here is the deal - promoting half-truths is characteristic of the serpent in the Garden - if you disagree with other doctrine - represent it properly and state your disagreement. There are plenty of differences between the three doctrines I featured - there is no need to misrepresent them.

At best, misrepresentation of doctrine reveals ignorance, at worst, devilry.

This post made me think of the scripture where the woman was about to be stoned. And Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Somehow it seems aplicable here. Let he who has the perfect church cast the first stone.
Thankyou for this post aspen.
God bless, pickles