Promoting Half-truth

[kujo313]

As far as being repetitive, I think worship songs are much more repetitive then the Rosary. The Rosary only lasts about 15 minutes - worship services can sometimes repeat the same songs over and over again for a 1/2 hour.

But worship songs are towards God. It is HE who deserves all our praise.


Revelation 4:8
The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: “ Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”

There'll be a LOT of God-worshipping in Heaven. Get used to it.

 

[kujo313]

Ahh....so it is okay to repeat prayers as long as it is classified as worship?

You are making my point Gray - reciting the Rosary and repeating worship songs are both pleasing to God. Unfortunately, many Protestants simply refuse to acknowledge a practice that is not familiar to them could be meaningful to others and pleasing to God.

I don't get it. HOW is reciting the Rosary pleasing to God? Most of every thing you recite is towards Mary, no matter what you may be thinking.

It's the modern-day golden calf.

 

[pickles]

But worship songs are towards God. It is HE who deserves all our praise.


Revelation 4:8
The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: “ Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”

There'll be a LOT of God-worshipping in Heaven. Get used to it.

I have found that songs of praise or worship, are very effective in rebuking many evils.
So keep singing!
God bless, pickles

 

[kujo313]

I have found that songs of praise or worship, are very effective in rebuking many evils.
So keep singing!
God bless, pickles

On my mp3 player is over 300 songs. Many of which are Praise and Worship songs (the rest are of Christian singers and groups). I listen to it at work and never tire from listening to them.

 

[kujo313]

Do you follow the Pope as a church leader as most Catholics do? If so what do you think about what he does in this video. He gathers all these religions and says they are praying to the same god. He kisses the koran. He dresses up in pagan garb. He allowed the dali lama to replace the cross with a statue of buda on the altar of St. Peters church for worship. He received the mark of shiva, the hindu lord of death, on his forehead.

GO TO 4:56 OF THIS VIDEO
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ipkzcDHHQ[/video]​

Wow! These people in the video (the Pope, Billy Graham, etc.) seem to be saying "all paths lead to God." That would make Jesus a liar.
I used to enjoy listening to Billy Graham when I was a kid. But if this is his opinion, then I'm done listening to him.
If they're not preaching the One True Gospel, I'm not listening.

ty for posting this video.

 

[Stand_Up_4_God]

I AM AGAINST CONFESSING SINS TO HUMAN BEINGS

Okay....well, yeah...the Bible is clear on this. James 5:16 says Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Now I understand, we shouldn't confess things to someone such as the pope, or the ''fathers'' of the catholic church and so on...not in the manner they do...asking him to forgive them and what not. However, yeah we should confess to a brother or sister in Christ if we have committed a sin and we need help praying we'll be delivered from that.

We don't have to say what that sin is, but we can just say ''I must confess I sinned, and I rather leave it unspoken, but could you help me pray?''. Or if we want, and feel led to do so, we can confess what that sin was, and pray. Anyhow, with respect, that's my view on things. God bless.

 

[aspen]

My goodness! Is this for real? He says nothing of receiving Christ...& then the protestant portion 8:20 in video... hmmm he is promoting itchy ear theology. I'm not speaking to the pope but to Schuler’s comments sadden me that these amazing men of God don’t stand up for the belief that no one comes to the Father except by Christ. The God they promote is a false god an Oprah new age god. Do they have any idea what they are doing when the miss step like this. I am not their judge or their accuser... the video appears real... It just truly saddens me that the pope would do these things and our other religious leaders assume a stance where all roads lead to Heaven. I am lowly in body of Christ but I would NEVER EVER acknowledge or in the name of peace accept making Christianity inclusive of Buddhists or Muslims religious books or idols... yes Muslims & Buddhist can reject this & come to Christ but I HATE to look upon their idols... shakes head.

I know that Robert Schuler has become a Universalist in his later years. As far as the Pope is concerned, he is not advocating or even agreeing with other religions – he is simply acknowledging that they exist and nurture some really amazing, spiritually minded people. I used to be afraid of this kind of thing, too; but now, doctrinal correctness takes a backseat to sanctification of the heart. We are all guilty of doctrinal errors – which can and will be corrected easily enough it Heaven. I am much more concerned about the condition of my heart and the hearts of my neighbors – are we going to be able to accept correction or will we resist and possible argue with God about the way things really are? Believe me, I have met more than one Calvinist that was willing to go toe to toe over doctrine and take no prisoners! After being reduced to a theological grease spot on the ground, I wondered if they were practicing for a showdown with God, someday. As unorthodox as this may sound – the Buddhists I know have a much better understanding and practice of managing pride then many of the Calvinists I have run into me. Sheesh, even the men who passed up the Samaritan were not guilty of knocking him on his butt in the first place!

The most important thing is not what you know about God, it is the sanctification of your heart. Are you humble enough to receive correction – it your focus on caring for your neighbor or correcting him?

 

[aspen]

I am not trying to argue - I am trying to make a simple point.

The Rosary has been referred to as babbling pagan nonsense, which is condemned by Jesus in the Bible.

I am refuting that claim, by comparing the Rosary to Protestant worship services - both take the form of prayer and worship and both involve repeating phrases directed to God.

For some reason, Protestants have no problem recognizing repetitious songs, sung during worship services as acceptable forms of fellowshiping with God; however, they refuse to see the Rosary as an acceptable form of fellowship and worship towards God. Instead they only see the repetitive nature of the rosary (without acknowledging the fact that their own songs share this repetitive format) and label it as pagan babble.
That's true and Protestants would be hypocrites in that sense.

Thank you for acknowledging this point. Why is this so difficult for some Protestants to see? Also, it is not my intention to condemn Protestants for having an uplifting worship service – far from it – I think Catholic need to adopt the idea. All I am trying to say is stop throwing stones.

However I believe the issue is the manner in which it is done. In Catholic, they tell you what you should say and how many times.

​

You can tailor the Rosary anyway you want to. More times than not, I have substituted the never ending prayer found in Revelation, in place of the Hail Mary prayer.

In protestant, you repeat whatever you feel is in your heart to God.

I believe you because I attended many worship services as a Protestant, but if I was looking in from the outside, without concern for understanding what was really going on, it would appear that the entire congregation was parroting the chorus of a specific worship song on the giant overhead, which was being repeated over and over again by the worship leader. I am just saying…

And that Mary is focused upon so much in the rosary is other proof for its 'paganism'.

I understand your confusion. From the outside it looks like Mary is the focus – but inside a Catholic’s head, as they are reciting the work of Christ in Mary’s life, they are also meditating on the birth, life, death, resurrection, and glorification of Jesus and the completed sanctification of Mary in heaven.

 

[MahogonySnail]

In protestant, you repeat whatever you feel is in your heart to God.

I believe you because I attended many worship services as a Protestant, but if I was looking in from the outside, without concern for understanding what was really going on, it would appear that the entire congregation was parroting the chorus of a specific worship song on the giant overhead, which was being repeated over and over again by the worship leader. I am just saying…

Yes you're right, singing worship songs over and over could be considered similar. Put it this way, you're supposed to take to heart the words you are singing and sing them back to God. But I gather few actually do that. It would be the same in Catholic.


When I go to Catholic services they're no different to protestant ones, in some ways better because it is focussed on the mass but protestant churches, outside your mainstream anglican, lutheran etc either a) dont have communion at all, or b) have it once a month.. with cheese flavored rice crackers and apple juice if they can't be bothered going to the shops :0

 

[imoss]

My goodness! Is this for real? He says nothing of receiving Christ...& then the protestant portion 8:20 in video... hmmm he is promoting itchy ear theology. I'm not speaking to the pope but to Schuler’s comments sadden me that these amazing men of God don’t stand up for the belief that no one comes to the Father except by Christ. The God they promote is a false god an Oprah new age god. Do they have any idea what they are doing when the miss step like this. I am not their judge or their accuser... the video appears real... It just truly saddens me that the pope would do these things and our other religious leaders assume a stance where all roads lead to Heaven. I am lowly in body of Christ but I would NEVER EVER acknowledge or in the name of peace accept making Christianity inclusive of Buddhists or Muslims religious books or idols... yes Muslims & Buddhist can reject this & come to Christ but I HATE to look upon their idols... shakes head.

I know that Robert Schuler has become a Universalist in his later years. As far as the Pope is concerned, he is not advocating or even agreeing with other religions – he is simply acknowledging that they exist and nurture some really amazing, spiritually minded people. I used to be afraid of this kind of thing, too; but now, doctrinal correctness takes a backseat to sanctification of the heart. We are all guilty of doctrinal errors – which can and will be corrected easily enough it Heaven. I am much more concerned about the condition of my heart and the hearts of my neighbors – are we going to be able to accept correction or will we resist and possible argue with God about the way things really are? Believe me, I have met more than one Calvinist that was willing to go toe to toe over doctrine and take no prisoners! After being reduced to a theological grease spot on the ground, I wondered if they were practicing for a showdown with God, someday. As unorthodox as this may sound – the Buddhists I know have a much better understanding and practice of managing pride then many of the Calvinists I have run into me. Sheesh, even the men who passed up the Samaritan were not guilty of knocking him on his butt in the first place!

The most important thing is not what you know about God, it is the sanctification of your heart. Are you humble enough to receive correction – it your focus on caring for your neighbor or correcting him?

So correct me if I'm wrong in my assesment of this post. You have indicated a budhist will go to heaven If they have the right heart? Sounds just like the all roads lead to Heaven new age garbage Oprah supports & Yes I think I will remain, not afraid of this sort of thing, but vehemently opposed!

 

[aspen]

So correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment of this post. You have indicated a Buddhist will go to heaven If they have the right heart?

Like the Pharisees, you are relying too heavily on your own mind – God works through people regardless of the completeness of their theological understanding. I agree that Christianity is the most correct religion, but others are on a continuum of correctness – CS Lewis taught this as well and there was nothing new age about him. The fact is, Buddhism is almost right; the only difference (which, I agree is a big difference) is that their focus is managing personal desire – Christianity’s focus is to love God, self and neighbor. Therefore, it is less likely that a Buddhist would be concerned with Jesus’ sanctification of his heart than a Christian, but it is possible for him to be open to it without possessing a correct doctrinal understanding of Christianity.

Your indication that we need to have a complete understanding of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is troubling for two reasons:

1.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]What happens to mentally impaired people? What happens to children? What happens to folks who do not have a Western mindset? What happens to people who become ‘saved’, but retain pagan cultural practices? Are these people exceptions? If so, why is it okay to give them a pass, but attribute other people’s inability to understand Christian doctrine as stemming from pride?

What happens to Christians in our country who get saved, yet still buy into our consumer, narcissistic culture – they’ve read the word and accepted Jesus – they may even have a seminary education, yet they continue to participate fully in the consumption of products they do not need at the expense of poor nations……this issue is more complicated then you believe it to be.

I simply cannot believe that Jesus separates the sheep and the goats based on the unbiblical phrase “Jesus come into my heart”, which is often uttered once and then forgotten. God is to just for this – His will is going to be done in the hearts of people whether they are theologians or not, based on their hearts capacity to love.

2.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]How much knowledge is enough? Do we simply need to believe that Jesus died for us? Or do we need to understand and be able to diagram the Trinity? Do we only need to confess our sins to God or do we have to understand the way Christ’s process of justification and sanctification works in our hearts to save us? Do we only need to trust Jesus or are we supposed to be about to take a stand on the interplay between faith and works? Finally, do we need to interpret the Bible literally, as our sole authority or are we supposed to study God’s sanctification process in the lives of the saints and look to the Church as equal in authority to the Bible?

In my humble opinion, doctrine is a hobby – I love discussing it – I certainly would not be on this board if I didn’t; but it has nothing to do with the sanctification God can work in the heart that desires humility and love.

Sounds just like the all roads lead to Heaven new age garbage Oprah supports & Yes I think I will remain, not afraid of this sort of thing, but vehemently opposed!

Then you are missing the point of Christianity completely. God is interested in humility and our capacity to exercise and receive love – forgiveness being the highest expression of love. This has little to do with the mind – our mind simply needs to help us comply to the sanctification that Jesus uses to change us into humble, loving beings. There is nothing universal about this – it is rare to find a heart that is being sanctified to be humble and loving – inside Christianity or out. Jesus had no problem with the theology of the Pharisees – indeed, they had all their theological ducks in a row; Jesus was concerned with the state of their hearts. Instead of complying to sanctification of the heart, the Pharisee where all in their heads and it was acting as a stumbling block for them and the people. This is why Jesus tried to move their knowledge from their brains to their hearts – getting all work up about the Sabbath is meaningless if you are using the law to bind people – in fact, the Sabbath was made to help man – not to bind men in chains

 

[imoss]

I'm sorry, I didnt read your post past the point of referring to me as a pharisees and I choose to no longer speak to you. I do pray that you will come to receive Jesus as your Lord & savior as no one comes to the Father except by HIM. Many spiritual blessings to you.

 

[VW]

I'm sorry, I didnt read your post past the point of referring to me as a pharisees and I choose to no longer speak to you. I do pray that you will come to receive Jesus as your Lord & savior as no one comes to the Father except by HIM. Many spiritual blessings to you.

You did not want to read it more. It leaves out Jesus and His sacrifice for us, and uses reasoning to belittle everything that God has done through Jesus for us.

Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, (which means that He came and died and rose again,) is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Christ is not of God.

 

[miktre]

You did not want to read it more. It leaves out Jesus and His sacrifice for us, and uses reasoning to belittle everything that God has done through Jesus for us.

Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, (which means that He came and died and rose again,) is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Christ is not of God.

Amen..........

 

[aspen]

Jesus is God. His sacrifice on the cross paid for our sins. If we recognize Jesus' sacrifice, receive baptism and practice the sanctify work Jesus is doing in our hearts by loving God, our selves and our neighbors we will know God and be with Him for eternity.

I guess it is ok for you to dismiss my posts as garbage, but how dare I mention your habit of focusing too much on the cognitive aspects of doctrine is exactly what the Pharisee s did.

Too bad, we both could have learned something.

 

[aspen]

You did not want to read it more. It leaves out Jesus and His sacrifice for us, and uses reasoning to belittle everything that God has done through Jesus for us.

Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, (which means that He came and died and rose again,) is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Christ is not of God.

Obviously you didn't read my post either. At least imoss was honest about it. I talked about Jesus throughout the post.

 

[karuna]

The fact is, Buddhism is almost right; the only difference (which, I agree is a big difference) is that their focus is managing personal desire – Christianity’s focus is to love God, self and neighbor. Therefore, it is less likely that a Buddhist would be concerned with Jesus’ sanctification of his heart than a Christian, but it is possible for him to be open to it without possessing a correct doctrinal understanding of Christianity.

I'm not sure this is the only hurdle.

For instance, the idea of a sacrifice on our behalf is addressed explicitly in Buddhist thought, since in pre-modern India sacrifices were a popular method of cleansing sin and keeping the gods happy. To a Buddhist, however, they led directly to one of the hells. Your average Buddhist would be appalled at the idea of a sacrificing a chicken, much less relying on a self-sacrificing god, not only because it's violent...

...but also because it simply wouldn't work. In Buddhist thought, gods are simply those who are more karmically fortunate. Dead or alive, they have no power to adjust the trajectories of others. Since everyone is responsible for his karma, full stop, the shedding of another's blood is irrelevant at best. Rejoicing in the fact that Jesus died for us would be indulging in wrong views.

Is it possible that he'd be open to the possibility of sanctification from without? I suppose so, but at that point he's no longer thinking as an orthodox Buddhist and one wonders if we're really asking the original question. If we really want to know if a Buddhist can be saved while not knowing the details of Christianity, I think we're asking about someone who truly typifies the religion, in which case I have serious doubts.

I think, though, that most people are lucky in that they don't typify the label they've chosen. In other words, your average "Buddhist" is living with a common sense spirituality he's cobbled together over time. (Don't do bad. Try to do good. You're not the biggest thing out there.) These people have much more of a chance.

 

[pickles]

I think it is very dangerous to assume what will pass for entry to heaven or eternal life.
Jesus did say, no one can come to the father except through me.
I do understand the argument about mentally challanged or those that for various reasons did not have the oppertunity to know Jesus.
But, I firmly believe that this judgement belongs to God and what he desides.
The concern is that once we begin to give reason for another to not accept Jesus we may just give reason for condemnation.
I would not want to face God Our Father saying well I told some ,that in this case, You would understand?
I see so many in this day accepting God yet rejecting Jesus as simply this or that, because as long as we believe in God we are ok.
The very name of Jesus Our Lord and Savior is defineing. The name of Jesus very much separates the goats from the sheep simply because this is
our very hope and truth.
The name of Jesus is our truth and guard.
The cross is foolishness to those that reject him.
We shouldl not pass judgement apon any one, as that belongs to Our Lord God.
But, we cannot give excuse ether. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light.
The rest is in the hands of God.
God bless, pickles

 

[VW]

Obviously you didn't read my post either. At least imoss was honest about it. I talked about Jesus throughout the post.

Your post was a little out there brother. It sounded like an endorsement for everyone can come to God just any ol way. I was actually suprised at it's message.

 

[aspen]

Originally Posted by aspen

As far as being repetitive, I think worship songs are much more repetitive then the Rosary. The Rosary only lasts about 15 minutes - worship services can sometimes repeat the same songs over and over again for a 1/2 hour.

But worship songs are towards God. It is HE who deserves all our praise.

I am not sure why you refuse to believe the Rosary is directed towards God. Also, most Christians who criticize the Rosary do so because it is repetitive. Once again, the Catholic Church does not teach us to worship Mary. Worship is reserved for God alone. We do acknowledge and exault the sanctifying work God has done in Mary and ask here to pray for us.

Hail Mary, full of Grace (the greeting Mary received from the angel Gabriel during the annunciation)

The Lord is with you (The gospels confirm that the Lord was with Mary)

Blessed art thou and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. (Mary was called blessed by Gabriel and we know Jesus was blessed.)

Holy Mary mother of God (Mary was made Holy as the Christ-bearer and she is the mother of Jesus, who is God)

Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen (Simple request for pray)

Now, while Catholics are asking Mary for prayer, we are worshiping Christ through meditation on His birth (joyous mysteries), life and ministry (luminous mysteries), His death (sorrowful mysteries) and His resurrection, and His completed sanctification in the heart of Mary (glorious mysteries).

There are also 5 times during the Rosary when we say the Lord’s prayer; 1 times when we say the Apostles Creed; 5 times we say “Glory be to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and always will be world without end.”.

Revelation 4:8
The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: “ Holy, holy, holy, [is the] Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”

Yep. Awesome verse – I actually have that verse playing in my head most of the time, and I often replace it for the Hail Mary on my Rosary

There'll be a LOT of God-worshipping in Heaven. Get used to it.

Hmm….why do you seem so frustrated? It sounds like you believe that I will be surprised by all the worship of God in Heaven? On the contrary, I cannot wait to worship God for eternity. Hopefully, I will take my unearned seat next to all the saints and spent forever reveling in adoration for God – and thank God I will never ‘get used to it’ – it will always be new and satisfying.