Psychological disorders

[MaggieMye]

You are so missing the point and spiritual truth of the matter.
Unless you are an avid student of Greek, it stands that pharmakeia is of witchcraft. Do you understand the meaning of the word witchcraft? It is the controling of a person...thier body, mind, actions, will, and that is what drugs do.
Deliverance and spiritual warfare is what I'm trained in, certified. You will convince no one that is involved in deliverance ministry or spiritual warfare otherwise. Drugs/pharmakeia cause the body to do things which it cannot do on it's own and that is manipulation and control and it side-steps God's healing power.
Maggie

 

[Consumed]

Gods truth that Jesus bore all sin and sickness upon Himself. If we water down the work of the cross and the authority we have over the powers of darkness we deny Jesus in His fulness. I prayed once that God would answer this question for me as to "chemical imbalances" of the mind as it to me a conforming of the world veiw to beleive that its just that and that medication is the only resource available to give any kind of a somewhat distorted normal life. I had a God appointed meeting with whom i found out to be a leading lecturing psychiatrist of the university of sydney here in australia. Wow i thought, thank you Jesus, we spoke about "mental illnesses" and i boldly proclaimed it was all demonic oppression in one form or another and that the chemical imbalance was the fruit of the root. Then she looked at me in a bewildered way, i thought oh oh, and proceeded to tell me that if she could only lecture that from the lectern at the university. Herself not being a beleiver was important in itself during this meeting as it gave the oppurtunity to share the good news of the gospel with her that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. The Dr recieived Christ that day.
End of the chat she paid me $100 for the hour. lol God is good, all the time.

If we beleive that medical science is the answer you get what you beleive. Ive seen many people delivered from ""mental illness"... Just believe in the fullness of Christ and His minisrty, which by the way was 80% healing and delivering people. The mandate Jesus brought is

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Same spirit that lives in us, not i who lives but Christ who lives in me,,,

Lord I believe , help me with my unbelief, we all need to pray this daily

 

[Cleante]

You are so missing the point and spiritual truth of the matter.
Unless you are an avid student of Greek, it stands that pharmakeia is of witchcraft. Do you understand the meaning of the word witchcraft? It is the controling of a person...thier body, mind, actions, will, and that is what drugs do.
Deliverance and spiritual warfare is what I'm trained in, certified. You will convince no one that is involved in deliverance ministry or spiritual warfare otherwise. Drugs/pharmakeia cause the body to do things which it cannot do on it's own and that is manipulation and control and it side-steps God's healing power.
Maggie

Maggie,

I am an avid student of Greek and I am also Greek Orthodox. I stayed in a Greek Orthodox monastery for a few months to study Koine Greek and Orthodox theology. Let me ask you, is insulin a sin in and of itself? If a diabetic intakes insulin are they side-steping God's healing power. God endowed us with reason so that we may use creation for our benefit, but we should not abuse creation. Drugs are given to us by nature. Is aspirin, a derivative of the Willow tree, a sin?

Before you comment on Greek words, please learn the idiosyncrasies of the language.

I'll let you think what you please because I know I will not sway your opinion one way or another, no matter how misinformed it is.

ΙΝ ΙΕΣΥΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ,

Ιοαννης

 

[MaggieMye]

is insulin a sin in and of itself? If a diabetic intakes insulin are they side-steping God's healing power. That would depend on a few things: Is the person a believer? If not, then no, because they do not know God and that they could or can go to Him. If the person is a Believer, then the questions are these: Are they taking care of the vessel that God has given them by eating correctly? Have they broken off generational curses that may have opened the door to the disease? Have they gone to the elders for healing prayer? IF they are taking care of the body and have broken off curses or repented for whatever sins they have of their own and have asked for and receive prayer and their sugar is still high, they can do one of two things: They can take authority over it and trust that God WILL heal them, or they can take the insulin. The 'right or wrong' of it is between them and the Lord. God endowed us with reason so that we may use creation for our benefit, but we should not abuse creation. Drugs are given to us by nature. Is aspirin, a derivative of the Willow tree, a sin? It is IF your body is dehydrated (#1 cause of headaches) (address the natural first) and IF you have not sought the Lord's healing hand first. Sometimes headaches (or whatever) are brought on by the demonic and we are to take authority over it and command them to leave, taking their pain with them. ...Aspirin....Insulin, in and of themselves are not sin...they are THINGS....but they are medications and the use of them without first approaching the Lord IS SIN.

You're quite snide at the age of 20...just my opinion. What do you know of deliverance or spiritual warfare? Have you studied these ministries to be able to understand what I say? It matters not that your Greek words have many meanings....so do many English words. So what? The crux of the matter is that medication/drugs is a MANIPULATION OF THE BODY/MIND. It is NOT God's will that we resort to that. It is His will that we run to Him, Jesus Christ, Crucified, His stripes the exchange for human malady.
Maggie

 

[VW]

So, when someone with Wilson's disease undergoes chemical chelation and their psychiatric symptoms go away, what happened? Because this has happened and still does happen, you know. Because of a genetic defect, they deposit copper in their cells and over time can develop anything from depression to symptoms that mimic Parkinson's. If the disease hasn't progressed too far, we can make these go away.

When a person with bipolar takes lithium and we note that their damaged hippocampus begins to regenerate, what does this mean? Is it fake? What happens when a person takes the drugs for a while and finds that they no longer need them? Has this person not been healed because somebody else had a bad experience with the drug?

I understand you have a personal anecdote about a bad drug experience and you do have a point to make about the overinvolvement of the drug companies and the way drugs are used, but you've gone so overboard here that you really don't have any credibility left to make those good and necessary arguments.

Actually, the point is that we are all dying, are truly already dead, because of sin. In fact, we are all insane, criminally insane. The cure is Jesus.

In the cases above, are they cured? Do they never need to have chelation again, or never take lithium again? My son is law is bipolar, has been all of his life.

And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

We do not know what we shall become, but when we see Him we shall become just as He is. This is the only cure for our illness. For any illness.

 

[Lifelike]

I think genetic factors can have a lot to do with it, although what has come through the generational line is not just physical. We are spiritual and our choices affect the physical even to the genetic level over time and many mental disorders are because or ungodly activity in our ancestry and the biological effect it has had, resulting in all manner of disfunction and disease. Curses are involved and so are demons. Our words have a lot of power, and there is a law at work that if we speak certain things and partake in certain activities or mindsets then the are results, even to the physical realm. An satan is a legalist, he loves when we give hime ground.

 

[Mulehide]

If my car gets a flat tire, I change the tire. If my car is having problems cuz I ran low on one of the fluids, I refill the fluid. When the transmission messed up, I went to the mechanic. Some of these problems I caused, some are normal for this car, some just happen. The saying goes "eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway,"

We are to take care of our bodies. When we are sick and God has given us the remedy here on earth we should use it. Yet we should not view God simply as a last resort either. Some illnesses, mental or otherwise, are natural and some are demonic. We must accept both possibilities and solutions. This is just my opinion.

 

[Cleante]

If my car gets a flat tire, I change the tire. If my car is having problems cuz I ran low on one of the fluids, I refill the fluid. When the transmission messed up, I went to the mechanic. Some of these problems I caused, some are normal for this car, some just happen. The saying goes "eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway,"

We are to take care of our bodies. When we are sick and God has given us the remedy here on earth we should use it. Yet we should not view God simply as a last resort either. Some illnesses, mental or otherwise, are natural and some are demonic. We must accept both possibilities and solutions. This is just my opinion.

I appreciate your balanced and well-reasoned answer. God granted us reason so shouldn't we use it? I never dismissed the possibility of illnesses caused by demonic forces. What I did dismiss was that all illness is caused by spiritual attack.

 

[Lifelike]

I appreciate your balanced and well-reasoned answer. God granted us reason so shouldn't we use it? I never dismissed the possibility of illnesses caused by demonic forces. What I did dismiss was that all illness is caused by spiritual attack.

Illness can be caused by demonic attack...

 

[karuna]

In the cases above, are they cured? Do they never need to have chelation again, or never take lithium again? My son is law is bipolar, has been all of his life.

I'll quote what I wrote:

What happens when a person takes the drugs for a while and finds that they no longer need them?

Yes, it does happen that people take medications for a while, then find that they no longer need them. I understand that your son hasn't been cured, but what about those who have been? The idea that nobody is ever healed by medications, which is what I was responding to, is demonstrably false. The fact that some people aren't healed by medications doesn't contradict this.

 

[kiwi_OT]

There is so much stigma around mental disorders. In my graduate studies I took a survey of people's perceptions of "what is mental illness" and I got reactions from "crazy people" to "people who scream things out at you as you walk into a store." People I surveyed said that people with mental illness could be sociopathic, unable to control themselves, and be a danger to others because of the nature of their illness (i.e. they might leave the house with candles burning or drive a care without a license, etc.) The ironic thing is that many of the people I surveyed were on medications for things like anxiety, depression and ADHD.

The thing that makes mental illness different from physical illness is that mental illness is often a result of imbalanced neurotransmitters (brain chemicals), but it also is affected by experiences (war, abuse, trauma, etc.) biology (there is scientific proof demonstrating that some people are more prone to develop certain disorders), relationships (does the person have a strong support network or are they left to deal with life on their own), upbringing (did they have a healthy, stimulating environment as a child or were they neglected and abused?) etc.

To say that a mental disorder is all spiritual or all biological, I think, is too simple of an explanation. Satan knows our weaknesses and is ready to exploit them every chance he gets. If he knows a person is prone to depression, don't you think he will use every opportunity to exploit that? Chronic pain? Satan is ready to use every weakness to his advantage, and susceptibility to addictions or schizophrenia is definitely a weakness and he often knows all the right buttons to push. On the other hand, it is just as easy to say that Satan can cause physical afflictions as well--headaches, chronic pain, etc. Does he really CAUSE it or does he set up circumstances for it to happen, or both?

On the other hand, it is unloving and unhelpful to tell people who suffer from mental illness that they just need to pray more and believe God will heal them. Would you tell that to someone who has cancer? Medications can do wonders in a person's life, and God has allowed them to human beings as a gift, both for physical illness as well as mental illness..

I hope that offers a little insight.
Be blessed

Ahh brilliant sound words!
Where were you when I was writing up my mental health paper last week?

 

[Cleante]

Illness can be caused by demonic attack...

Did you read my post? I never said that it couldn't.

 

[VW]

I'll quote what I wrote:



Yes, it does happen that people take medications for a while, then find that they no longer need them. I understand that your son hasn't been cured, but what about those who have been? The idea that nobody is ever healed by medications, which is what I was responding to, is demonstrably false. The fact that some people aren't healed by medications doesn't contradict this.

Are they really cured?

Our medical science has progressed, or so it seems. At least we don't bleed people when they are sick, trying to let the poisons out. But there is so much we don't know, and in fact we will never know.

I am not one of those who believe in the advancement of mankind over time, but rather we have degenerated in the last 2 generations to all time lows. Much of this is due to what we call our advancing society.

But what I was trying to get across, is that if one is sick and then cured, even by medications, have they dealt with the real illness? The body is nothing but a place for us to inhabit, and if we have heard His voice, for the Spirit to inhabit with us. The body is already dead because of sin.

I am not disdainful of modern medicine as it would seem. Just a few months ago, I had an accident with a router, and severed both extensor tendons for the index finger of my right hand. And while I am pleased to say that things look good in my recovery, I will also say that the ER surgeon, while operating on my hand, sewing one tendon together, (wrong even though,) was answering his cell phone the whole while that he was working in my hand. No thoughts for sterility at all. I thought about saying something, but in my spirit I knew that I would not become infected. And I did not.

So I will just say that while the medical profession is helpful, I don't place my trust in them. My plastic surgeon did a really good job. But I trust in Jesus, and in the Spirit of God.

 

[karuna]

Are they really cured?

So if a person prays and no longer shows symptoms, have they really been cured? If we look under the microscope and don't see the neuronal damage anymore, are they really cured? You're setting up a theology of doubt here that means nobody anywhere ever really can be cured of a particular disease, even if they really look like it. This isn't helpful - it's dangerous.

But what I was trying to get across, is that if one is sick and then cured, even by medications, have they dealt with the real illness? The body is nothing but a place for us to inhabit, and if we have heard His voice, for the Spirit to inhabit with us. The body is already dead because of sin.

We don't have to get all mystical about the real illness, when people do actually get real illnesses. I understand you're trying to make a point about our bigger situation, but if you've got a throat infection, you've actually got a real throat infection regardless of your spiritual stance. And the throat infection can be fixed. It isn't a fake illness as opposed to the real illness. Are you still a fallen human? Yes, but if you take your meds, you can be a fallen human without a throat infection.

Doctors can't give you eternal life, granted.

So I will just say that while the medical profession is helpful, I don't place my trust in them. My plastic surgeon did a really good job. But I trust in Jesus, and in the Spirit of God.

Then we agree - the medical profession is helpful. Some people, including the one I responded to, try to imply that they don't ever heal anybody with their evil drugs. And we also agree - there's no use in putting our trust in man above God, but occasionally it's helpful to see a lawyer, mechanic, or doctor.

 

[OreoSoleil]

You know the Bondage Breaker by Neil Anderson covers this question within the first chapter. Check it out and read for yourself. He makes som valid points -- ones I never saw before.

You know all the things you hear in your head -- majority of them are lies -- that's how satan gets to us. If we hear things in our heads -- then that means others do -- those that are not saved -- what do u think they hear? Satan torments us -- and he takes new routes when the old ones stop working because we get stronger. Medical wise -- check out Job -- God allowed satan to inflict him.

God allows us to suffer to make himself known

 

[VW]

The man born blind was healed, and the man who had a legion of demons was delivered, and the woman who had a discharge was healed, just from touching the hem of His robe. I did not say that those who pray are not healed, but that those who are healed by medical science are not truly healed, but still just as dead in sin as before.

You see, I know that people are trying to help. But help is not all that is needed.

I am on the wrong side of 55 now, and each day I see deterioration, of my body. It is getting old, as it must, because of sin. But I am not my body, I live in my body. And I know that God is sustaining my body for as long as He desires. And if He chooses, He will sustain it until Jesus returns. If He chooses that I return to Him, no amount of medical science will change the fact that I am leaving this body and this world. Now that may seem fatalistic, but it is the truth of the matter.

 

[karuna]

I did not say that those who pray are not healed, but that those who are healed by medical science are not truly healed, but still just as dead in sin as before.

Who is expecting a doctor to bring them back to life and out of sin? Who are you talking to?

If He chooses that I return to Him, no amount of medical science will change the fact that I am leaving this body and this world.

Who is saying otherwise? Who are you talking to? The belief that you're trying to refute, no one here seems to have.

 

[VW]

Who is expecting a doctor to bring them back to life and out of sin? Who are you talking to?



Who is saying otherwise? Who are you talking to? The belief that you're trying to refute, no one here seems to have.

Hard to pin down.

Just what are you saying that you disagree with me on?

I have said that modern medicine is not, not, the miracle that so many think it is. I don't believe that it has made our lives better. I don't believe that the root of illness is addressed, and that most often the symptoms are treated, and not the underlying cause, even if it is not a spiritual cause, but rather a physical cause.

Now why I believe these things is that I know that man's wisdom and intelligence is not efficacious as it would appear. There seems to be progress in man's battle against sickness, but soon we will find just how miserably man has failed in this battle.

And most ****ing of all is that man is becoming arrogant in his belief in his science, of which medicine is a part. And the hope of these who believe in medicine is that one day we will be able to live forever.

But even worse, the medical industry, (and it is an industry, buying and selling and making deals for the health of people,) is not the caring organization that we would like to think. There are a great many people involved who are as caring as anyone in the world, but the leaders, the ones calling the shots are not caring about anything but profit. And that taints the whole thing.

 

[karuna]

Just what are you saying that you disagree with me on?

Two things. #1) Drugs do occasionally completely cure people. I understand that you have a personal anecdote about your bipolar son, but that doesn't mean that the people who have found cures in drugs are faking it. When you say things like...

There seems to be progress in man's battle against sickness, but soon we will find just how miserably man has failed in this battle.

...all you're saying is that "sure, a lot of people appear to be cured of their diseases, but just you wait - you'll find out otherwise." I'm not impressed. Anybody can make up evidence in the future that will prove their case now.

#2) People don't go to their doctors because they want to be cured of sin, so nobody's confused on this point. You're asserting that we need to be told, for instance, that doctors can't keep you alive if God wants you dead, but nobody is saying anything remotely like that. Essentially, you're shadowboxing so that you can look better. Let me give you an example, changing the words around, of what you're doing:

I don't put my money in a bank because God told me to lay up my treasures in heaven. If I'm going to be rich, it's because he made me rich, not because I talked to an investment banker. No matter how much money I have when I get to the gates, it won't get me in.

Nobody here believes that investment bankers can get you into heaven (or that doctors can cure you of sin). Nobody here believes that by putting money in a bank, you're trying to become rich without God's help (or that by taking medicine, you're arrogantly trying to heal yourself without God's consent). Nobody believes that if you invest, you necessarily believe that the profits investment bankers make are fair (or that by taking medicine, you agree with the bad practices of modern medicine).

It's nonsense. People don't believe the things you're trying to refute. If you don't understand where we disagree, it's because you're over in the corner arguing with shadows and haven't bothered to listen to what we're actually saying.

 

[solmarie]

The DRS. don't even believe in it for the most part. But the Bible tells us that we are to go to God FIRSt for healing. Running to Drs. first is, in itself, sin.

Maggie

Are you for real??? I believe God gave men the wisdom and knowledge to help people who are sick. Do you not remember that Jesus made some kind of mud ouf of dirt/saliva and placed it in the guy's eyes? Also, he told the lepers go wash in the Jordan river to be cleansed. There was some kind of action with every healing He did so what makes you think that it's not God's will for someone to go to a doctor and get medicine to get healed. I do not believe going to a doctor is a sin and I don't think it's every in Scripture.