Psychological disorders

[MaggieMye]

Are you for real??? Do you know the Lord? Do you understand the dynamics of the spiritual realm and how it works for and against us and WHY??" I believe God gave men the wisdom and knowledge to help people who are sick.The Bible states that CHRIST is our healer, not man. Do you not remember that Jesus made some kind of mud ouf of dirt/saliva and placed it in the guy's eyes? Do you understand that by doing so Jesus, GOD, was reforming the mans eyes...literally recreating them as the miracle for the people to see and so believe? It was ALL for GODS glory, not mans. Also, he told the lepers go wash in the Jordan river to be cleansed. There was some kind of action with every healing He did so what makes you think that it's not God's will for someone to go to a doctor and get medicine to get healed. The simple fact that we are to go to God FIRST. HE is our healer. With medications there is ALWAYS some negative thing (not to mention spiritual thing), side affects that are detrimental to the human body. So with every medication....every 'fix it' there also comes another problem. You think THAT is God's way of healing us? Ahhh, NO! I do not believe going to a doctor is a sin and I don't think it's every in Scripture. Believe what you want. It is your choice. But His word tells us that HE is our healer; That when we are sick we are to go to the ELDERS, not the doctors, for prayer for healing. Yes, Luke was a physician. But when he came into Christ's ministry he soon learned that GOD is first. Luke was learned in the affects of herbs and seeds and different foods.
2 Chronicles 16:12 " 12In the thirty-ninth year of his reign Asa became diseased in his feet. His disease was severe, yet even in his disease he (A)did not seek the LORD, but the physicians." This verse shows how Asa sinned against God by elevating the physicians above Him and seeking them first.
Mark 5:26 " 26and had endured much at the hands of many physicians, and had spent all that she had and was not helped at all, but rather had grown worse"
And this verse shows that there are many things that are spiritual, the things which the physcians can NOT HEAL. It is the conditions that physicians cannot heal that are of the spiritual nature...although that does not mean that the ones they can heal are not also of a spiritual origin, understanding that a curse without a cause does not fall.
I am not saying that going to a DR. is sin. I am saying that if you to go a Dr. first without first seeking the Lord and elders for deliverance and prayer...THAT is sin.
Maggie

 

[VW]

It's nonsense. People don't believe the things you're trying to refute. If you don't understand where we disagree, it's because you're over in the corner arguing with shadows and haven't bothered to listen to what we're actually saying.

No, actually, you have not understood any of what I am trying, badly it seems, to say.

#1) While a disease might be cured by a drug or a treatment, (and I don't refute that this happens, just not as often as it should or could,) most often what happens is that the symptoms are treated, not the actual underlying cause of the symptoms. Why? Because we don't know how to treat the underlying cause. So what happens, in the name of what is euphemistically called quality of life. And we see an even greater stride in this with the new proposed health care reform. What is quality of life, but being comfortable in our sickness? Most diseases are treated this way. It is sad.

#2) I went to a doctor when I hurt my hand. I mean, there I was, looking at the back of my hand, and I almost could see all the way through it. I went to have it repaired. When a soldier is injured in battle, I pray that he or she gets the best medical care possible. There have been tremendous strides made in this area in the last century and a half. Even in the last few years. But we are looking at a physical cause, and a physical treatment. How many people are taking drugs that they really don't need? Does anyone actually know? Drugs which treat the symptoms of a disastrous lifestyle.

#3) If I am in a corner, it is one with Jesus there also. Jesus healed people almost everywhere He went. But when He stated His purpose in coming to this world, was it to heal the sick? NO! It was to give us life, and that more abundantly. Does God want us to be sick? Maybe, sometimes. Does the devil want us to be sick, even mentally? You bet. And if you think that drugs will help a case of demon influence or even possession, guess again.

 

[OreoSoleil]

Luke 11: 14-26 -- makes this convo even more interesting

 

[VW]

Luke 11: 14-26 -- makes this convo even more interesting

Yeah, it does, doesn't it.

 

[giantone]

I think the mind is something that can be diseased or malfunctioned in some way.

I think more is true that the mind is molded by person's choices, one who swears uses a different part of the brain then the verbal aria of his brain, one who has lustful thoughts uses that part of the brain, one who is bitter, hateful or condemnation greed uses that part of the brain. these emotions don't give freedom, they make the brain like a clinched muscle never relaxing and only getting tighter. (i over did it at the gym the other day and my arms are sore.)

One who loves or is forgiving or generous or filled with joy and reads the Word of God's promises and good things to look forward to allot. These things produce freedom and with continuing use they flow freely and are not tense or closed off to others.

I think lots of people are in the mental institution because of what they chose to think about and set there hearts on. I also know that the doctors labeling people these diseases sets the disease in concrete and makes the person take ownership of the disease and never truly get free of it.

 

[vahn]

I appreciate your balanced and well-reasoned answer. God granted us reason so shouldn't we use it? I never dismissed the possibility of illnesses caused by demonic forces. What I did dismiss was that all illness is caused by spiritual attack.

Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins.

But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

When it says we are healed, it means we are healed. He didn't say, "Well you are free from adultery, but mental illness will rule you"

All illness is spiritual, no matter how nicely you try to dance around it. It is always spiritual.

God gave us authority over Satan and every power in hell.

----------------

As for medication. If your motives behind taking the medication are for a high, then you are in sin. If the motives behind the medication are to heal then God has no concern over this, because deliverance is a process sometimes a lengthy process, you may need the medication, until someday he will tell you that you wont need it.

 

[MaggieMye]

YES HE DID!!

Luke 11:14-26 And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed.

15But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons." 16Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven.
17But He knew their thoughts and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls. 18"If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. 19"And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges. 20"But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
21"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. 22"But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder. 23"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters. 24"When the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and not finding any, it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' 25"And when it comes, it finds it swept and put in order. 26"Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first."

Ever Seen Rob Bell's "Everything is Spiritual" DVD?? EXCELLENT!!Maggie

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I believe that we are to pray for the sick. Every one that isn't instantly healed, we are called to take care of. If someone comes to the door and says, I am so sad that I cannot even function (clinically depressed) and we lay hands upon them and bless them and send them away, we have done nothing. The body of Christ is built not from it's stengths but from its weaknesses. We cannot say to the weaker member of the body, we have no need of you. for those that have such needs are more important to the body that we might show our love for one another. If it was easy everyone would do it.

 

[greatkraw]

I'm interpreting a psychology class and this was recently studied. Are disorders such as schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders medical or spiritual? They say there is scientific proof of parts of the brain being effected.

On the other hand, my Dad's family has dealt with different mental disorders. He claimed I Timothy 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." and has had no mental illness of any kind. His twin sister loves the Lord and likewise has not had any mental illness. Coincidence or God's protection?

There are three broad categories that describe the cause of mentaldisorders;

guilt, fear and discontent

everyone expereinces these andif they deal with them the wrong way they can lead to mental disorders

the fact is that Jesus died for our guilt and our fears

he is also the answer to our discontent

people who deal with these things in an unhealthy or destructive way over a prolonged period may eventually end up with psychological problems and physical symptoms

as far as tracking bodily changes in regards to emotions; these are not the causes of the emotion but the effects!

 

[Consumed]

After reading alot of the posts given i am encouraged with those that believe Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever and discouraged by those who proclaim Christ Jesus but not in the fullness of the work of the cross.

Be of one mind and accord - wow, do not be conformed to this world - wow,
these signs shall follow those who believe-wow, have the mind of Christ -wow

but lets just believe we have no authority given us over any sickness and illness??

who cares what it is,spiritual/physical - its only cure is the cross of Jesus

tree of life vs tree of knowledge - i choose the life tree thanks

stand in the gap people - pray and fast for them,

 

[nohtsreeyah]

Well I have been diagnosed as Bi-Polar manic depressive. and people say why are you depressed. But It is a chemical imbalance.when my mother was pregnant with me my father beat her very badly trying to get her to "loose me" or have a miscarriage. I came out banging my head against my hands and later as I was growing up I would bang my head against walls and my pillows and sometimes now even at the age of 41 I feel like banging my head sometimes. I have been in eleven mental hospitals. My father admits to beating my mother while she was pregnant with me. and now I have to take medication. I Wet the bed for years. But now God has delivered me through his word and his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit himself put my in the bath sometimes and helps me clean my house. You can say this is because of sin and that. But I was in the womb and went through that. Yes I have sinned and fallen short. But my illness wasn't my fault.And I need my medicine. Yes I have called for the elders of the church. They prayed for me but they didn't put olive oil on me. I have prayed for myself too. But any way Jesus is my Lord and savior. He died for me and he arose from the dead. I believe that and have been baptized in the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit. and yes an evil spirit now bothers me from the inside. please pray for me as i pray and feed on the word of God. My Joy is the Holy Spirit and His day to day love for me. I'm learning Hebrew. And working on reading the bible all the way through this year using "OUR Daily Bread". Love and Shalome.

 

[MaggieMye]

Well I have been diagnosed as Bi-Polar manic depressive. and people say why are you depressed. But It is a chemical imbalance.when my mother was pregnant with me my father beat her very badly trying to get her to "loose me" or have a miscarriage.This treatment of you and your mother before your birth has opened you up to spirits of rejection, trauma, anger, and fear. It is no wonder that you suffer. I came out banging my head against my hands and later as I was growing up I would bang my head against walls and my pillows and sometimes now even at the age of 41 I feel like banging my head sometimes. That is because you have not been set free from these things. The door was opened and the unclean spirits have found a home in your physical body. The first thing you MUST do is to forgive your father for his unloving behavior towards you and your mom (remember forgiveness is NOT a feeling, but a choice) and also forgive your mom for subjecting you to that anger and hatred coming from your father (remember that people that abuse have almost always been abused themselves...not an excuse, but to show you the 'generational curse' of how you came to have these issues)I have been in eleven mental hospitals. My father admits to beating my mother while she was pregnant with me. and now I have to take medication. Have you thought of working with some deliverance ministers? If you email me what town you live in, I could try to find some credible people that can help you.I Wet the bed for years. But now God has delivered me through his word and his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit himself put my in the bath sometimes and helps me clean my house. You can say this is because of sin and that. But I was in the womb and went through that. Yes I have sinned and fallen short. But my illness wasn't my fault.And I need my medicine. No, sweetie...you need deliverance and healing which is what Christ died to provide for you Yes I have called for the elders of the church. They prayed for me but they didn't put olive oil on me. I have prayed for myself too. But any way Jesus is my Lord and savior. He died for me and he arose from the dead. I believe that and have been baptized in the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit. and yes an evil spirit now bothers me from the inside. please pray for me as i pray and feed on the word of God. My Joy is the Holy Spirit and His day to day love for me. I'm learning Hebrew. And working on reading the bible all the way through this year using "OUR Daily Bread". Love and Shalome. Speak out the forgiveness. Using your authority in Christ, BREAK the curses of rejection (out loud in the name of Jesus), trauma, hatred, anger and fear over your life. Then command all spirits attached to those curses to leave you and never return in the name of Jesus.

Let me know if you have any questions. Your medication is OK...but God has a much more excellent way!! Complete Freedom in Christ Jesus! I'm excited for you!!
Maggie

 

[vahn]

After reading alot of the posts given i am encouraged with those that believe Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever and discouraged by those who proclaim Christ Jesus but not in the fullness of the work of the cross.

Be of one mind and accord - wow, do not be conformed to this world - wow,
these signs shall follow those who believe-wow, have the mind of Christ -wow

but lets just believe we have no authority given us over any sickness and illness??

who cares what it is,spiritual/physical - its only cure is the cross of Jesus

tree of life vs tree of knowledge - i choose the life tree thanks

stand in the gap people - pray and fast for them,

Jesus did die for all our sins. Who are you referring to? Also, to comment on your tree of life vs tree of knowledge statement, you say that having knowledge is sinful?

 

[Cleante]

Jesus did die for all our sins. Who are you referring to? Also, to comment on your tree of life vs tree of knowledge statement, you say that having knowledge is sinful?

Vahn, he is probably referring to me. Anywho, to emphasize the healing power of God does not mean that human efforts at healing are down-graded. On the contrary, medical treatment is also seen as a human cooperation with God's healing purposes and goals.

I will paraphrase from my Greek Orthodox book.

Orthodoxy recognizes a place for human effort, striving and cooperating with God's will. This belief, called Synergy, requires the exercise of human talents and abilities for spiritual growth, for moral behavior, for achievement of human potential as well as for the fulfillment of God's will in all things related to our community and social life.

So, in principle, the use of healing, medicines, therapeutic diet practices, even surgical operations have generally been understood throughout history in the Church as appropriate, fitting and desirable ways of cooperating with God in the healing of human illnesses.

In essence, God has provided us with the knowledge to heal illnesses. When we use this knowledge we are cooperating with God's will for the protection of the sanctity of human life. To say that it is a sin to seek medical care before actually praying is just bad theology.

 

[vahn]

Vahn, he is probably referring to me. Anywho, to emphasize the healing power of God does not mean that human efforts at healing are down-graded. On the contrary, medical treatment is also seen as a human cooperation with God's healing purposes and goals.

I will paraphrase from my Greek Orthodox book.

Orthodoxy recognizes a place for human effort, striving and cooperating with God's will. This belief, called Synergy, requires the exercise of human talents and abilities for spiritual growth, for moral behavior, for achievement of human potential as well as for the fulfillment of God's will in all things related to our community and social life.

So, in principle, the use of healing, medicines, therapeutic diet practices, even surgical operations have generally been understood throughout history in the Church as appropriate, fitting and desirable ways of cooperating with God in the healing of human illnesses.

In essence, God has provided us with the knowledge to heal illnesses. When we use this knowledge we are cooperating with God's will for the protection of the sanctity of human life. To say that it is a sin to seek medical care before actually praying is just bad theology.

I don't think Maggie meant taking medication to be sinful, as I do agree that it does cooperate with the purpose of healing. Where it does become a sin is if the motives behind taking the medication are for a high.

 

[Consumed]

Jesus did die for all our sins. Who are you referring to? Also, to comment on your tree of life vs tree of knowledge statement, you say that having knowledge is sinful?

Have the mind of Christ and to have the knowledge of Christ says to me to eat from the tree of life. The tree of knowledge in the garden represented sin in itself, it held the law, never Gods intent we walk by the law as He demonstrated that the law cant save, only He is perfect as proved by Jesus.


So let me ask you now bro, what did Jesus mean then when He said "these signs shall follow those who believe, you (including you) shall lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed". That scripture troubled me always as i thought "i believe so do alot of others", until it was revealed to me its what you believe in,period. We all believe in Christ Jesus the saviour, what about healer we see and are told to be in scripture, not my word, and you would agree that Jesus is not a liar,
Jesus Ministry was 80% healing and delivering when He walked, not i who lives but Christ Jesus who lives in me. Why think He is not the same yesterday today and forever. Do you believe??? I do, and its amazes me still to this day He is the same

.
father son holy spirit

 

[pickles]

I'm interpreting a psychology class and this was recently studied. Are disorders such as schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders medical or spiritual? They say there is scientific proof of parts of the brain being effected.

On the other hand, my Dad's family has dealt with different mental disorders. He claimed I Timothy 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." and has had no mental illness of any kind. His twin sister loves the Lord and likewise has not had any mental illness. Coincidence or God's protection?

Thankyou mulehide, this is a good thing to discuss.
I think that it is important to point out that mental illness is an illness just as any part of the body.
When one reads the scriptures they understand that illness can come from sin, by the person that is ill, or the sins of the parents.
But scripture also speaks of illness as not being from any sin but to God's perpose, glory.
OreoSoleil posted from Luke that supports that some are ill from no sin.
Also Job was stricken for Gods glory.
I believe that all must understand that any affliction of the body is illness.
Now, we are also told in the scriptures that any one can and will be healed, but we also have Gods will.
Im sure this is a good debate as well.
One of my children has multiple medical illnesses due to a genetic defect that occered at the moment of conception. By no fault of care. But it affects everthing in the body and mind.
Now wether this is due to sin of fathers before, it is not easy to say since all of us and before us sinned.
I believe all is possible in Jesus, that healing is possible. My hope and my childs hope is to claim this.
But what disturbs me is the assumption that if one suffers a psy. illness that they are more of sin than another.
Also that only psy is possesion.
Scripture shows us this.
Many illnesses can come from possesion as well.
All is illness, wether from sin or not. It is wrong to judge one as more over the other.
I am saddened when I see the discrimination in this, often making the sufferer of a psy illness believing they are more evil , faithless, or under sin than another, that is ill from an illness that calls sympathy instead of judgement.
We need to break away from this discrimination.
We are called to live in Jesus, heal in His name, remove the curse of sin and evil from those possessed .
Not to condemn one over another simply because it is easyer to blame or explain one over the other.
In Jesus, God bless. pickles

 

[vahn]

Have the mind of Christ and to have the knowledge of Christ says to me to eat from the tree of life. The tree of knowledge in the garden represented sin in itself, it held the law, never Gods intent we walk by the law as He demonstrated that the law cant save, only He is perfect as proved by Jesus.


So let me ask you now bro, what did Jesus mean then when He said "these signs shall follow those who believe, you (including you) shall lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed". That scripture troubled me always as i thought "i believe so do alot of others", until it was revealed to me its what you believe in,period. We all believe in Christ Jesus the saviour, what about healer we see and are told to be in scripture, not my word, and you would agree that Jesus is not a liar,
Jesus Ministry was 80% healing and delivering when He walked, not i who lives but Christ Jesus who lives in me. Why think He is not the same yesterday today and forever. Do you believe??? I do, and its amazes me still to this day He is the same

.
father son holy spirit

Still unsure of what you mean. I can't tell what you are disagreeing with.

 

[vahn]

Have the mind of Christ and to have the knowledge of Christ says to me to eat from the tree of life. The tree of knowledge in the garden represented sin in itself, it held the law, never Gods intent we walk by the law as He demonstrated that the law cant save, only He is perfect as proved by Jesus.

God didn't make us to walk by the law yes, but he also didn't make us stupid.

Sorry for double post.

 

[aeon]

You know the Bondage Breaker by Neil Anderson covers this question within the first chapter. Check it out and read for yourself. He makes som valid points -- ones I never saw before.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
uh, Bondage Breaker is very powerful book. I actually had one i found it in our book shelves at our province. I finished the book and indeed it gave me great impact on how such bondages coud be broke and what are those bondages in my past years in life. I'll mark that 10 and highly recommend it. I had already shared that book to others after i red it, hope they would experience the same way too.