Purity - Without being purified do we know anything

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Feb 28, 2016
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#41
obviously Cross and Fhs have done their home-work and duty in the scriptures -

hub and I are constantly challenged to master the art of trying to become,
as Paul was,
'all things to all men', that we might by all means save some.'

Christ wants us to work at learning how to communicate in a Godly-manner -
to a pauper, prince, the illiterate, or the PHD.

as Cross has said, we are a work in progress'.
day-by-day, moment-by-moment', Faith-to-Faith
this is our new-lifes work...
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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#42
You previously concluded I didn't. So why ask me now?
In brief...
We have been purified by the blood of Jesus as believers.
We are continually being cleansed as believers.
We will never reach full purity in this life.
(Did I pass your test?)
Sounds like it is just something that happens, rather than we are involved.
How does this fit with Pauls encouragements?

1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything
that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7

So we should avoid certain behavioiur that defiles us.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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#43
As born again believers, this is not possible because God won't allow that to be a permanant sation gor His children.

Philippians 2:13 (KJV) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
(Heb 12:5-8)

You see, 'grace' is more than a religious word, it is God in action for our good.
God surely disciplines us, as it says in hebrews. But equally we need to take our responsibility to
walk in His ways and honour His name.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,311
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#44
Sounds like it is just something that happens, rather than we are involved.
How does this fit with Pauls encouragements?

1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything
that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7

So we should avoid certain behavioiur that defiles us.
He is the Purifier that is why there is the "Holy" Spirit. He sanctifies, He justifies, He glorifies. Ours is a response to what He has done.

We are to present ourselves as those who are dead to sin and alive to God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(Rom 6:11-14)

(I really didn't think you wanted to be a student of mine. I'd recommend you to be a student of Scripture instead.)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,311
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#46
God surely disciplines us, as it says in hebrews. But equally we need to take our responsibility to
walk in His ways and honour His name.
Like I said, ours is a response to what He is already doing in is...

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
(Php 2:12-13)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#48

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#49

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#50
Some seem to believe there is something more than shinning as Gods workmanship, as saints
walking after our Lord, in His ways and His path. Purity is the beginning of seeing what is wrong,
to know what love truly is, why dying for another is the highest form of sacrifice, that the glory of
man is just a clanging gong.
Man has no Glory in respect to Christ righteousness working through him. Dying for another, GOD and our fellow man is the beginning of our walk. Until this Christ can not use us to the potential he would through His Spirit.

John declared to believe we are without sin is sin itself.
Let 's take a look at that.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
So if we walk in the light we are fellowshipping with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanseth us from all sin.

Sin in the above verse is a noun, a state not a verb which would be the action. Please follow along.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We are to confess our Sin when it is a noun before it becomes an action; the verb.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Sin here is a verb and it is in the past tense.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

If it were not possible to live without sinning in action; the verb then John would not write that we sin not.

And if (not when) any man sin, we have an Helper toward the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(1Jn 1:7-2:1)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#51
Show me where I had passed this kind of Judgment on FHS...



Look at post #12.

Are you finished at your cross examination and/or is FHS your client?
RIGHT HERE...
What 'you' declare? You are only confirming my suspicion ...
Which is a judgement and does nothing to further a civil conversation. Here is where you were going. I had gb9 on ignore due to his demeanor so I did see the post.
just so anyone posting or reading this will know- the O.P, does not recognize any definitions of words that he choses , he just makes up his own meanings, with out care for the actual language,

in another thread, he and I were discussing the definition of sin, he stated that the greek language ( which the N.T. was written in ) as a " philosophy ".
that's it, saying no more, just wanted to point out the mindset at work here.
Just what GB9 said above
Which is a slight on his character; a insult. Not that FHS was right either, he went right where you steered him. That being said he posted...
You are simply not declaring your meaning or understanding.
That is not walking in the light. And the trouble with accusers is they
love to play games and hide their real beliefs and foundations, because
simply they are sinners justifying their own behaviour.

It is why Jesus described those who rejected His message as those who
walked in darkness because their deeds were evil.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#52
I agree with you because we receive sustenance from the VINE and you have to be In the VINE to receive sustenance
Amen!

After salvation renew your mind so that you may prove that good and acceptable and the perfect will of GOD.
Renew? I assume you are alluding to Romans 12:2. The Greek word there is
ἀνακαίνωσις
anakainōsis
Thayer Definition:
1) a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better

God has said.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 KJV)

The renovation is done. His Laws were put into our minds and hearts. A complete change for the better. Not an ongoing process.

Renewal in Romans 12:2 is in the Dative case.
Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine


With the above understanding of the dative case with Hebrews 8:10 in consideration I believe renewal should be understood as the indirect object or instrument not locative. So with that I see Romans 12:2 as follows....

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed to the renewal of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
(Rom 12:1-3)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#53
Which is a judgement and does nothing to further a civil conversation. Here is where you were going. I had gb9 on ignore due to his demeanor so I did see the post.
Neither does your nitpicky judgments, playing prosecuting attorney, further civil discourse. Are you a Mod? If you can't stick to the subject of the OP, then feel free to put me on ignore as well.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#54
Amen!



Renew? I assume you are alluding to Romans 12:2. The Greek word there is
ἀνακαίνωσις
anakainōsis
Thayer Definition:
1) a renewal, renovation, complete change for the better

God has said.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 KJV)

The renovation is done. His Laws were put into our minds and hearts. A complete change for the better. Not an ongoing process.

Renewal in Romans 12:2 is in the Dative case.
Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine


With the above understanding of the dative case with Hebrews 8:10 in consideration I believe renewal should be understood as the indirect object or instrument not locative. So with that I see Romans 12:2 as follows....

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed to the renewal of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
(Rom 12:1-3)
The KJV says BY the renewal of your mind.When we were In the world everything we did was recognized by using our GOD given 5 sense knowledge and we agreed with our senses In this flesh.

Paul wrote that although I delight In the law of GOD after the INWARD man I see another law In my flesh warring Against the law of my Mind bringing me Into Captivity to the law of sin so then what were we suppose to do but be carnal and the mind learned It’s behavior from trying to satisfy the flesh so then when Paul wrote By the mercies of GOD present your bodies a living sacrifice and renew your mind I don’t see how that could not be a continuous renewal because If Its not continual then how do we get rewards In our walk because our walks would not require faith and the Bible says that the just shall live by faith?

You would be right If there were no progressive sanctification and only positional sanctification but you are In error.

GOD Is a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must worship HIM our spirit to HIS SPIRIT and HIS SPIRIT to our spirits.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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#55
Neither does your nitpicky judgments, playing prosecuting attorney, further civil discourse. Are you a Mod? If you can't stick to the subject of the OP, then feel free to put me on ignore as well.
shoe doesn’t fit huh? Thought maybe you being a professing christian....
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
#57
Hmm, not only a prosecuting attorney but a Judge as well.
You are funny. You start making comments about someone rather than address the points they make. They respond to your slights. And then you say they are judgmental and now I am judgmental because I pointed it out to you. lol

Your turn.....
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
#58
The KJV says BY the renewal of your mind.When we were In the world everything we did was recognized by using our GOD given 5 sense knowledge and we agreed with our senses In this flesh.[\quote]Spiritual things are Spiritual discerned.
Paul wrote that although I delight In the law of GOD after the INWARD man I see another law In my flesh warring Against the law of my Mind bringing me Into Captivity to the law of sin so then what were we suppose to do but be carnal and the mind learned It’s behavior from trying to satisfy the flesh
Head knowledge is not what is being said in relation to Heb 8:10






You would be right If there were no progressive sanctification and only positional sanctification but you are In error.
God said that He put His Laws in our minds and in our hearts. Romans 10:6-8 says the same thing but in other words. It says through GOD's Spirit. The Word (Christ) is in our heart and in our mouth.
God said it so it must be so.
It is the means of our sanctification.
GOD Is a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must worship HIM our spirit to HIS SPIRIT and HIS SPIRIT to our spirits.
Through HIS Spirit our spirit must be put to death. For it is He that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. For it is a certainty that in HIM we move live and have our being.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#59
The KJV says BY the renewal of your mind.When we were In the world everything we did was recognized by using our GOD given 5 sense knowledge and we agreed with our senses In this flesh.

Spiritual things are Spiritual discerned.
Yes but before salvation we understood with our senses then when we got saved It was our spirits that was made new and the Bible says that Everyman that has this hope purifies his mind to match his spirit.

Head knowledge is not what is being said in relation to Heb 8:10

Hebrews 8:10
King James Version


10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
+++

You say that this scripture Is not talking about head knowledge.Would you agree then that we are positionally saved AND there Is no need for progressive sanctification.

Why does the Bible mention rewards If we are already made perfect In the mind,I mean no Imperfect thoughts?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#60
You are funny. You start making comments about someone rather than address the points they make. They respond to your slights. And then you say they are judgmental and now I am judgmental because I pointed it out to you. lol

Your turn.....
Look back, post #19 is where it turned personal.