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JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#61
No.

Also I believe satin is a smooth glossy fabric which produces no evil in of itself.
(😁 just teasin)

Satan is "the enemy", but much evil comes from fleshly desires and temptations being fed.

I am not sure anyone here would believe all evil comes from the same individual being spoken of in that verse.
O yea he’s called the father of all lies, are all lies evil or are some lies good.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
689
93
#62
O yea his called the father of all lies, are all lies evil or are some lies good.
Joshua 2:4

“And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:”


Was this evil?


In my heart, to answer you I am inclined to say "all lies are evil".


But that has little to nothing to do in regards to if all evil comes from a fallen angel, even if he was the first to transgress and cause stumbling blocks.

We are indeed born with a fallen nature and I accept I made my own mistakes.

Otherwise would I not be justified to just accuse the accuser?
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
267
43
28
#63
I agree according to the scriptures Christ came to serve: Matthew 12:17-18 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles, and we as belivers are to serve Him.
So are we saying God's sole purpose for creating the human race to serve Him? But He still has three quaters of sinless angels serving Him and if I was to compare my servanthood with an angel................ the angel will win hands own.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#64
Joshua 2:4

“And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:”


Was this evil?


In my heart, to answer you I am inclined to say "all lies are evil".


But that has little to nothing to do in regards to if all evil comes from a fallen angel, even if he was the first to transgress and cause stumbling blocks.

We are indeed born with a fallen nature and I accept I made my own mistakes.

Otherwise would I not be justified to just accuse the accuser?
Well I don’t know but you may think that that side is not in a orderly fashion like kind of winging it in a sense but it’s not.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
689
93
#65
Well I don’t know but you may think that that side is not in a orderly fashion like kind of winging it in a sense but it’s not.
I do not understand what you mean.
😕

Sorry.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
689
93
#67
I know probably best to just leave it as such.
Well now I'm curious....😣


hahaha

Fair enough.

God bless you man, I have only seen a few of your posts but I do not believe we have ever clashed..... which is pretty nice.

Some people get veeeeery heated when others disagree.


As long as we all trust in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ and are born again we are family.😏
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,148
1,653
113
#68
either most have hub and I on 'ignore' or else, they simply don't wish to acknowledge or they
are hard of heart and in a state of denial/ego...
scripture speaks for itself...
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#69
Well now I'm curious....😣


hahaha

Fair enough.

God bless you man, I have only seen a few of your posts but I do not believe we have ever clashed..... which is pretty nice.

Some people get veeeeery heated when others disagree.


As long as we all trust in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ and are born again we are family.😏
It’s complicated the deceptions are quite complex, like a serial killer cold, methodical, calculated.

thanks for the kind words though I have clashed with some but i don’t take it to heart.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
341
689
93
#70
It’s complicated the deceptions are quite complex, like a serial killer cold, methodical, calculated.

thanks for the kind words though I have clashed with some but i don’t take it to heart.
I just stick with the simplicity in Christ and am happy when God shows new things to me in my studies.

"I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil."


Usually when something needs a guru or a "wise man" to explain it.....

It can't be proven in scripture.


You can smell most deceptions before you you actually see them. (gives you time to go the other way lol)
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#71
LUKE 22.27
For whether is greater, he that sits at meat, or he that serves? is not he that sits at meat?
but I Am among you as 'He That Serves'.

this scripture speaks wisdom from The Alpha to The Omega -
Christ IS SERVING us, and giving us His example of WHY we are 'here'...
I like that Reminds me of the passage about feeding the five thousand.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#72
I just stick with the simplicity in Christ and am happy when God shows new things to me in my studies.

"I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil."


Usually when something needs a guru or a "wise man" to explain it.....

It can't be proven in scripture.


You can smell most deceptions before you you actually see them. (gives you time to go the other way lol)
That is true nothing wrong with simplicity, there are different levels in the army of the lord, there’s the front line soldiers, the middle, the rear and the reserves, cooks to prepare the food, and gathers of the food. each is just as important so where ones purpose is they all has the same value.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,584
1,798
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#73
Also He was alone and wanted a family. He is our 'Father' in Heaven and we are His 'children'. He has prepared an eternal home for us w/Him in His glorious kingdom, to be with Him and worship Him forever. How good is that!
Did God have a lack?

I don't think we want to say God created man because God had some kind of lack.

This would be to impugn his perfection.
We need to be very careful when making statements about God's character and nature.

If God was "lonely", or "in need of something", then that implies he wasn't perfect.
He couldn't have a lack, or a need, and be perfect in all ways.

Traditionally, it's been the orthodox view that the various persons of the trinity are in relationship with each other.
Thus, there is no loneliness, and no lack.

When we talk about the "why" of God creating man, we need to be very careful that we don't say God "needed" us for something.
That tends to make a really big mess of his perfection and attributes.



Not every question is an easy question.

I think the Calvinists around here would give the traditional answer and say, "God created us because it simply pleased him to do so."
I would have to agree.

Conclusion:
1. God created us because it simply pleased him to create us.
2. That doesn't mean we have no purpose.
3. It just means that our purpose doesn't extend from some kind of need.
4. Our purpose doesn't come from God having a need... our purpose comes from God infusing us with purpose.


.






..
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
2,854
2,360
113
#74
Did God have a lack?

I don't think we want to say God created man because God had some kind of lack.

This would be to impugn his perfection.
We need to be very careful when making statements about God's character and nature.

If God was "lonely", or "in need of something", then that implies he wasn't perfect.
He couldn't have a lack, or a need, and be perfect in all ways.

Traditionally, it's been the orthodox view that the various persons of the trinity are in relationship with each other.
Thus, there is no loneliness, and no lack.

When we talk about the "why" of God creating man, we need to be very careful that we don't say God "needed" us for something.
That tends to make a really big mess of his perfection and attributes.



Not every question is an easy question.

I think the Calvinists around here would give the traditional answer and say, "God created us because it simply pleased him to do so."
I would have to agree.

Conclusion:
1. God created us because it simply pleased him to create us.
2. That doesn't mean we have no purpose.
3. It just means that our purpose doesn't extend from some kind of need.
4. Our purpose doesn't come from God having a need... our purpose comes from God infusing us with purpose.


.





..
Idk about you but I see God as my absolute loving kind Father in Heaven who does love and cares for me and at times discipline also. Imo He is perfect and as a Father, wanting children to love and adore Him, does not mean He is imperfect. He is w/o end and seems wonderful He wants to share His Kingdom. That's who I think He is, thx.
Why did He create Adam then, and all of us ?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,584
1,798
113
#75
God can be a loving father without God having a "need" for us.
These two concepts are not mutually inclusive.


Tabin,
All I did was give you a very orthodox answer that I believe most theologians would agree with.

I didn't give you the easiest answer, or the most popular answer in christian culture; I gave you the orthodox theological answer which has passed the test of time for millennia, and which will hold up to any kind of serious scrutiny.

We can say that God loves us.
But we cannot say that God created us because he had some kind of need or lack within himself.
That would be to impugn God's perfection.

That constitutes a very serious theological error.

Theologically and philosophically we don't want to go there.

Take care.

..
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#76
God can be a loving father without God having a "need" for us.
These two concepts are not mutually exclusive.


Tabin,
All I did was give you a very orthodox answer that I believe most theologians would agree with.

I didn't give you the easiest answer, or the most popular answer in christian culture; I gave you the orthodox theological answer which has passed the test of time for millennia, and which will hold up to any kind of serious scrutiny.

We can say that God loves us.
But we cannot say that God created us because he had some kind of need or lack within himself.
That would be to impugn God's perfection.

That constitutes a very serious theological error.

Theologically and philosophically we don't want to go there.

Take care.

..
who knows could of been a need in heaven. like O there’s some pondering going on.

Alone doesn’t equate to non perfection, that’s silly imo.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,584
1,798
113
#77
who knows could of been a need in heaven. like O there’s some pondering going on.

Alone doesn’t equate to non perfection, that’s silly imo.
Perfection & Lack - how it works:

A. If God had some kind of need, that means there is some way in which God could be BETTER.
B. If God could be BETTER in some way, then he wasn't already perfect... he wasn't already as great or perfect as he could be.
C. If God EVER had some kind of need or lack within himself, then he wasn't yet perfected... he wasn't perfect.

That's basically how it works.

That has been the orthodox view of God's perfection for a very long time.

It's very sound reasoning, it's very biblical, and I didn't just dream it up on a whim.
:)

If you don't agree, that's fine.
It didn't come from me... it's been the traditional and orthodox view for a long time.

Take care.

.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
748
312
63
#78
Perfection & Lack - how it works:

A. If God had some kind of need, that means there is some way in which God could be BETTER.
B. If God could be BETTER in some way, then he wasn't already perfect... he wasn't already as great or perfect as he could be.
C. If God EVER had some kind of need or lack within himself, then he wasn't yet perfected... he wasn't perfect.

That's basically how it works.

That has been the orthodox view of God's perfection for a very long time.

It's very sound reasoning, it's very biblical, and I didn't just dream it up on a whim.
:)

If you don't agree, that's fine.
It didn't come from me... it's been the traditional and orthodox view for a long time.

Take care.

.
An orthodox tradition hmm and who created that view

The man spoken about in Isaiah experienced loneliness.

Isaiah 53
He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

did he feel alone heading to the whipping post, with all the disciples left him.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,265
9,826
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#79
Jesus was certainly a servant for us in that He died for us, but that's about as far as God being the servant to us that we can go.

BECAUSE He died for us, WE are now HIS servant. Paul makes this case in numerous places. But this idea that God created us for HIM to be our servant is just wrong. In some sense very wrong.

Imagine us facing God upon our death and saying to Him "Well done my faithful Father and servant". If He IS our servant, why couldn't we say that?

I would much rather HEAR from HIM "Well done my faithful servant". I prefer this image:

36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.

37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
I can’t agree brother

God serves us by giving us our health. Our families. Our churches. Teaching us, Our planet, He gives us food. He serves us in so so many ways.

That what his plan.

You serve your children, If your a good servant, your relationship with yur children will flourish

If your a bad servant, Your relationship with yoru children will be restrained.

We pay and seek God, because we NEED HIM, to serve us,, so we can BETTER serve him and others.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,584
1,798
113
#80
I can’t agree brother

God serves us by giving us our health. Our families. Our churches. Teaching us, Our planet, He gives us food. He serves us in so so many ways.

That what his plan.

You serve your children, If your a good servant, your relationship with yur children will flourish

If your a bad servant, Your relationship with yoru children will be restrained.

We pay and seek God, because we NEED HIM, to serve us,, so we can BETTER serve him and others.
Servant

I don't think there's any disagreement about the actual core of this discussion - that God sustains us and cares for us.

I think the issue just revolves around the connotations of the word "servant."
The word can be used in different ways.

The word "servant" often connotes a person who is subservient to someone else, or under someone else's authority.
Obviously, this definition doesn't really fit God in his heavenly glory.

2 Definitions:

A. If we're using the word to mean someone who "cares for, sustains, ministers to"... then God is a servant.
B. If we're using the word to mean someone who is "subservient to, and under authority of someone higher", then God is not a servant.

Jesus:
Please remember, when Jesus was in his earthly form, he fit BOTH definitions... because he put away his divine glory, for a time, and "took on the form of a servant".

Sometimes people are not really disagreeing, they're just looking at the same word in different ways.

.

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