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Mar 14, 2011
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#81
Servant

I don't think there's any disagreement about the actual core of this discussion - that God sustains us and cares for us.

I think the issue just revolves around the connotations of the word "servant."
The word can be used in different ways.

The word "servant" often connotes a person who is subservient to someone else, or under someone else's authority.
Obviously, this definition doesn't really fit God in his heavenly glory.

2 Definitions:

A. If we're using the word to mean someone who "cares for, sustains, ministers to"... then God is a servant.
B. If we're using the word to mean someone who is "subservient to, and under authority of someone higher", then God is not a servant.

Jesus:
Please remember, when Jesus was in his earthly form, he fit BOTH definitions... because he put away his divine glory, for a time, and "took on the form of a servant".

Sometimes people are not really disagreeing, they're just looking at the same word in different ways.

.

..
Thanks, I tried to explain this earlier. This is probably a better explanation
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
6,606
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#82
God can be a loving father without God having a "need" for us.
These two concepts are not mutually inclusive.


Tabin,
All I did was give you a very orthodox answer that I believe most theologians would agree with.

I didn't give you the easiest answer, or the most popular answer in christian culture; I gave you the orthodox theological answer which has passed the test of time for millennia, and which will hold up to any kind of serious scrutiny.

We can say that God loves us.
But we cannot say that God created us because he had some kind of need or lack within himself.
That would be to impugn God's perfection.

That constitutes a very serious theological error.

Theologically and philosophically we don't want to go there.

Take care.

..
Parents don't have children out of lack or need but because they want a family (at least that's the general idea).
 
Aug 17, 2019
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#83
Romans 10:9-13
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I confess Jesus as my Lord and not my servant and that God raised Him from the dead. If I confess Him as my servant, will I be saved?
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#84
Romans 10:9-13
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I confess Jesus as my Lord and not my servant and that God raised Him from the dead. If I confess Him as my servant, will I be saved?
Have you known someone who said I confess he is my servent? Or is that just switching it around and asking a question that probably no one has
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
3,982
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Philippines Age 40
#85
Jeremiah 9:24 KJV

But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord .

God is also our king aside from being a father to us. If our father is a king, we must be royalty also. Royal heirs but are also servants since He is a king. And in revelation, the righteous will have a chance to reign with Christ for 1,000 years.
 
Aug 17, 2019
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#86
Have you known someone who said I confess he is my servent? Or is that just switching it around and asking a question that probably no one has
Let's not go beyond what is written so I have provided some verses for your discretion.

Matthew 12:34-37
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Matthew 10:24-25
“A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#87
Let's not go beyond what is written so I have provided some verses for your discretion.

Matthew 12:34-37
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Matthew 10:24-25
“A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!
I like the second verses, I’m interested on the Matt 12 posting, in what way do you think that has meaning with rather someone says my or a servant
 
Aug 17, 2019
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#88
I like the second verses, I’m interested on the Matt 12 posting, in what way do you think that has meaning with rather someone says my or a servant
I just want to show from that verse that what comes out of the mouth as in confession of Jesus as Lord is from out of the overflow of the heart whether you say or not the word "confess".
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#89
I just want to show from that verse that what comes out of the mouth as in confession of Jesus as Lord is from out of the overflow of the heart whether you say or not the word "confess".
I think I understand now, say like if someone did say my servant, could that be of arrogance or pride and not meekness humbleness?
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,197
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#90
I appreciate this question. It was the catalyst to a specific study... ty

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Colossians 1:16 ESV


For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10 ESV


His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20


he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Ephesians 1:5‭-‬6 ESV


O Lord , our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory above the heavens.
Psalms 8:1 ESV


But now thus says the Lord , he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine. everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."
Isaiah 43:1‭, ‬7 ESV


Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 4:11 KJV

All about Him, because of Him, for Him, because He so chose.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,449
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#91
Dear Adstar: I love your discussion points. Now I have question?
Question 1: Lucifer, Lucifer is also interpreted "the day star" or " son of the morning" as the scripture goes on it describes how this Lucifer has lifted up his heart before God even to the point of declaring himself above God. Now comes the scripture that no one seems to want to except. This scripture describes how Lucifer was brought down. It says "Is this THE MAN that made the earth to tremble that did shake
kingdoms. The scripture clearly states this is a man. What are your thoughts?
Do you know that demonic spirits can posses people?
Do you not realize that satan himself can possess people?
In the Bible there will be a man called the Beast who will do lying signs and wonders by the power of satan ( lucifer's current name)

So yes the verses you quote are from the OT Prophet Isaiah who's future predictions include history all the way up to and passing the return of my LORD Jesus Christ..

The Anti-christ, wicked one, the Beast will make the world shake He will be a great leader and lead nations and peoples to great wars and persecutions and i believe billions of people will be killed because of his actions..

You know one of the titles of Jesus is ""son of man"" We believe Jesus came in the flesh in the body of a man.. So Jesus was a flesh man but at the same time God manifested in the flesh.. So likewise satan will also come in the flesh of a man and will deceive the world.. I believe the Anti-christ will fool millions into believing that he is the promised Messiah for the Jews and the returned Messiah Jesus for many religious people who will not be guarded by the Holy Spirit because they have not truly accepted the true Gospel of our LORD Jesus.. I quote the following portion of scripture for those who wish to understand..

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, {10} And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: {12} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,948
16,170
113
#92
Romans 10:9-13
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I confess Jesus as my Lord and not my servant and that God raised Him from the dead. If I confess Him as my servant, will I be saved?
Your not understanding my point at all..
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#93
The heavens declare his glory

Mankind a display of His love.

In that way God is not a man as us. God is Spirit. . . . God is light and God is Love as the vey essence..

The attribute of jealousy protects his love. . .His love is not jealous even though He owns all things but because he is long suffering his love is kind having no need to boast.

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
 
Aug 20, 2019
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#94
Jesus was setting and example for man to follow, I don't consider showing a fellow human compassion as a service, I do it out of love, that's what Jesus taught me with this parable.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#95
PERFECTION said: Dear Adstar: I love your discussion points. Now I have question?
Question 1: Lucifer, Lucifer is also interpreted "the day star" or " son of the morning" as the scripture goes on it describes how this Lucifer has lifted up his heart before God even to the point of declaring himself above God. Now comes the scripture that no one seems to want to except. This scripture describes how Lucifer was brought down. It says "Is this THE MAN that made the earth to tremble that did shake
kingdoms. The scripture clearly states this is a man. What are your thoughts?
I would offer..This MAN can be any man that brings another gospel, another mediator other than Christ alone.

One of the differences is in the word bright as in "bright" and morning star when referring to the Son of God as to the hidden glory. A source and or as a reflective witness.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Stars are used as witnesses. Just as the Sun and moon are used as witnesses of time. The Son of God as the bright source of light is also witness to that light. You could say the Father the source, and Son work a witness together working in perfect harmony and submissiveness as the peace of God's government .

Satan who is not a man is simply a lying spirit. He has not voice or form of his own. He speaks his lies as the father of any lie.

Influencing the heart of man to destroy the true source of bright light.

Peter used one of the many antichrists (humans) as THE MAN that made the earth to tremble that did shake kingdoms.

Peter used as a example was forgiven of his blasphemy trying to destroy the gospel .Today and until the end of time men cannot no longer be forgiven .

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind
me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew16:22-23

I would say if the bright light of the gospel is not revealing the path... rest. . . the new light where there is no night is just over the horizon.

A beautiful parable below

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the (bright) light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Revelation 21: 22-26

Twice to emhasize he uses into it .No glory coming from the clay
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#96
Was JESUS (GOD) serving when he was washing feet.......?

I would say yes serving the will of His Father. Teaching his father not seen is not served by human hands . The father moved the Holy men of old according to Philippians 2:12 as imputed.

The Spirit of faith, Christ's. . . that mutually indwells our earthen bodies of all who beleive have a future hope, a living abiding hope. .

That parable of washing feet was not understood as the kind of food the disciples knew not of at first. Peter refused the understanding .
It was one of the many without parables as opportunities the Holy Spirit performed revealing the hidden gospel message teaching us to walk by faith the unseen eternal and not after what the eyes see. Giving us the light to walk. .
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
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#97
Do you know that demonic spirits can posses people?
Do you not realize that satan himself can possess people?
In the Bible there will be a man called the Beast who will do lying signs and wonders by the power of satan ( lucifer's current name)

So yes the verses you quote are from the OT Prophet Isaiah who's future predictions include history all the way up to and passing the return of my LORD Jesus Christ..

The Anti-christ, wicked one, the Beast will make the world shake He will be a great leader and lead nations and peoples to great wars and persecutions and i believe billions of people will be killed because of his actions..

You know one of the titles of Jesus is ""son of man"" We believe Jesus came in the flesh in the body of a man.. So Jesus was a flesh man but at the same time God manifested in the flesh.. So likewise satan will also come in the flesh of a man and will deceive the world.. I believe the Anti-christ will fool millions into believing that he is the promised Messiah for the Jews and the returned Messiah Jesus for many religious people who will not be guarded by the Holy Spirit because they have not truly accepted the true Gospel of our LORD Jesus.. I quote the following portion of scripture for those who wish to understand..

2 Thessalonians 2: KJV
8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, {10} And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: {12} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Even when it comes to this "beast" with a number assigned to it "666" the scripture says this is a MAN. Your thoughts.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#98
Even when it comes to this "beast" with a number assigned to it "666" the scripture says this is a MAN. Your thoughts.
It resembles natural unconverted man as a beast of the field all from the same lump of un converted clay . The mark of Cain, a restless (no faith) wanderer who killed the first martyr. He was given a suffering he could not bear suffering the living pangs of hell with no rest. .One suffering that Christ alone did bear.

He uses a beast of burden bullock accustomed to going its own way (no yoke with Christ). . The call of salvation turning us by repenting us so that we in return can ease our ownself (repent) being reminded of childish things.

Jeremiah 31:18-19 King James Version (KJV) I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: "turn thou me", and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that "I was turned", I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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#99
It resembles natural unconverted man as a beast of the field all from the same lump of un converted clay . The mark of Cain, a restless (no faith) wanderer who killed the first martyr. He was given a suffering he could not bear suffering the living pangs of hell with no rest. .One suffering that Christ alone did bear.

He uses a beast of burden bullock accustomed to going its own way (no yoke with Christ). . The call of salvation turning us by repenting us so that we in return can ease our ownself (repent) being reminded of childish things.

Jeremiah 31:18-19 King James Version (KJV) I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: "turn thou me", and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that "I was turned", I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
Please forgive my insistence :This beast is it or is it not a man as the scripture states?
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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I am His son, but He is greater than I.


Even if we are heirs, no we are not His equal.

He is the first, we are created.

He is all powerful, we are limited.

He is all knowing, we are not.

He is righteous, without Him we are could never be.

He is king, we are not.


We are in no way His equal.[/QUOTE

The Jews rejected Christ because He as a man called God His Father making Himself equal with God. If as Christians we confess that we are in Christ and Christ is in us making ourselves to be one with Christ and we call out to God as our Father are we not guilty of this same crime ? As a matter of record so you know God is my Father and I am His Son. Because Jesus is in the Father and I am in His Son the Father shows the Son great and wonderful things and because I am in the Son I also see great and wonderful things. However the Jews say because I call God my Father I am a blasphemer. What say you?