Puzzling Question about Satan

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The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#21
Jun 20, 2022
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#21
it's funny, because most of my life i have heard preachers and teachers across the board claim Angels are basically robots with the Will to Choose or Deny God. but in my study of Satan, which gets very dark the more you understand, he was given a variety of emotions. we see him full of envy, pride, jealousy, and much more. he really was a special creation. the most unique of all the Angels.

i also enjoy a Theory, that i don't know is factual but can be made factual using Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4 and Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel called the Luciferian Theory.

in this theory, Satan, was given a similar role that Yeshua holds [Mediator between creation and God]. the more Satan dealt with creation, the more he saw how easy it was to deceive them. he made himself God to them so when he would visit Earth between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 creation would see him and worship him as God. which ultimately led to the conditions we read in Genesis 1:2.

it's a nice theory, but it also illustrates the deception within Satan himself believing he was MORE than just God's most unique creation.


but one thing is for certain. our God is a God who knows the ENDING from the BEGINNING. and we see that clearly how every situation in the Bible that presents a Problem already had a Solution before the Problem ever began.

God gives us ALL Free Will.

but knowing the End from the Beginning, God knew before the moment He created Satan what would take place. including, God Himself becoming a human Sacrifice for the sins that Satan would bring forth upon all creation.
 
NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
#22
May 17, 2015
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#22
I know it has no real bearing on this discussion, but I've heard and read recently that "Lucifer" wasn't Satan's pre-rebellion name, but rather a title. In other words, prior to his fall, he was the "light-bearer".

With that out of the way, I tend to look at the rebellion as evidence that Satan wasn't fully "good", even prior to his fall. Only God is truly perfect, good, just and holy. Anything that He creates will by default be "imperfect" in some way, and that includes angelic beings. Because to be "perfect" in the sense that God is would be equality with Him and the Scriptures plainly say that God has no equal.

Also, evil is not a thing in and of itself. It is simply the absence of good. Just like darkness is the absence of light or cold is the absence of heat.

Although we humans can't fully understand it, there had to be something in the mind of Satan that caused him to believe that he could replace God. We can agree that it was his pride and that it came from within himself, but on a more philosophical level, there had to be some sort of "imperfection" in his thought process that led him to believe that he could ever take the place of God. Lest there be any misunderstanding, I'm not excusing Satan at all; he had the choice to NOT rebel against God. I'm just saying that there were things that only God knew about Satan and his mindset that we humans don't know.

And consider this: God also knew what would have happened had there been no rebellion; Satan's thoughts and actions didn't take God by surprise.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#23
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#23
arthurfleminger said:
I can understand how Adam and Eve could be fooled and disobey and reject God. But I've never understood what could have caused Satan and his angels to rebel against and reject God. After all, they were actually in heaven, in God's precense and could experience God's love and goodness.

The Bible tells us very little about the war in heaven. What did Satan and his minions hope to acheive. I understand that Satan's sin was one of pride, I just don't understand how he thought he was going to rebel and win against God. Any ideas on what motivated Satan?
Click to expand...
Pride and lust for power fog the senses. Could also ask why any man would neglect such great salvation. This definitely shows us that Satan is not infinitely wise like His creator is.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#24
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#24
The_Watchers_2017 said:
i also enjoy a Theory, that i don't know is factual but can be made factual using Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4 and Psalms, Isaiah, Ezekiel called the Luciferian Theory.

in this theory, Satan, was given a similar role that Yeshua holds [Mediator between creation and God].
Click to expand...
This theory comes straight from Lucifer himself. Satan never was equal to the Son of God (and obviously never will be.) We must remember that Jesus is part of the Trinity and along with His Father was the creator of all things. Satan was never slotted to be our mediator, intercessor, or the atonement for our sins.

All things pointed to Jesus from the very beginning.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#25
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#25
oyster67 said:
This theory comes straight from Lucifer himself. Satan never was equal to the Son of God (and obviously never will be.) We must remember that Jesus is part of the Trinity and along with His Father was the creator of all things. Satan was never slotted to be our mediator, intercessor, or the atonement for our sins.

All things pointed to Jesus from the very beginning.
Click to expand...
How does this theory filling a role designed by God make Satan equal to God?

If the theory is correct or not, filling a role doesn't make one equal to something they are not.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#26
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,331
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#26
NotmebutHim said:
I know it has no real bearing on this discussion, but I've heard and read recently that "Lucifer" wasn't Satan's pre-rebellion name, but rather a title. In other words, prior to his fall, he was the "light-bearer".

With that out of the way, I tend to look at the rebellion as evidence that Satan wasn't fully "good", even prior to his fall. Only God is truly perfect, good, just and holy. Anything that He creates will by default be "imperfect" in some way, and that includes angelic beings. Because to be "perfect" in the sense that God is would be equality with Him and the Scriptures plainly say that God has no equal.

Also, evil is not a thing in and of itself. It is simply the absence of good. Just like darkness is the absence of light or cold is the absence of heat.

Although we humans can't fully understand it, there had to be something in the mind of Satan that caused him to believe that he could replace God. We can agree that it was his pride and that it came from within himself, but on a more philosophical level, there had to be some sort of "imperfection" in his thought process that led him to believe that he could ever take the place of God. Lest there be any misunderstanding, I'm not excusing Satan at all; he had the choice to NOT rebel against God. I'm just saying that there were things that only God knew about Satan and his mindset that we humans don't know.

And consider this: God also knew what would have happened had there been no rebellion; Satan's thoughts and actions didn't take God by surprise.
Click to expand...
Lucifer is a Latin Translation. Latin did not even exist as a language when Isaiah wrote his thoughts. Lucifer is an add in and no one should ever call the Adversary that. It's never been his name.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#27
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#27
The_Watchers_2017 said:
How does this theory filling a role designed by God make Satan equal to God?
Click to expand...
Only the Son of God Himself could fulfil the role you are trying to attribute to Satan (before he fell.) Please let go of this blasphemy.

The_Watchers_2017 said:
If the theory is correct or not, filling a role doesn't make one equal to something they are not.
Click to expand...
Satan was never eligible to fulfil said role. Please give it up. I beg you.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#28
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
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#28
oyster67 said:
Only the Son of God Himself could fulfil the role you are trying to attribute to Satan (before he fell.) Please let go of this blasphemy.


Satan was never eligible to fulfil said role. Please give it up. I beg you.
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i never said i followed this theory.
but if the theory were true and the role was given by God to Satan it still does not ever make Satan equal to God.

do you ever read what you type?
because it does not match what i was saying.
you just judged me out of your presumption of assumption and then applied it as if you have such authority.
 
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