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It does in the verses you cited, "today with me paradise"
Then, "his soul not left in Hades",
Then "touch me not have not ascended to father" this is defining paradise for you before the cross.
We know Christ did not go to heaven upon his death:
Jn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God
We know that he was in Hades during the time before he resurrected:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption
We know the thief was said to be with him "today", in Paradise
No reason to mover the comma, because it fits with the remote context.
We know He promised to prepare a place in heaven:
Jn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you
The only logical conclusion, is that at the cross Jesus went to Hades, his soul was not left there, he resurrected,when he ascended, he went to the third heaven, prepared the place he spoke of, changing the location of paradise, because he had to go first into heaven first, after the sacrifice was made.
Paradise was already changed once, as it used to be on earth in the garden.
Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil(HEAVEN);
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
I looked into the comma thing, and that does not fit, because, the only reason to assume this would be if one had a preconceived idea. This would go as far as saying, most of the translations got this wrong, based only on a preconceived idea.
Then after the Cross, as Jesus said he would, "prepare a place for us".
Meaning, Paradise would no longer be in Hades, because he shed his blood, and now would be in Heaven itself. Where the tree of life is.
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Don't know if this is what your asking, but here is where I see the dead being raised first:
II Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words
To FEEDM3: Quote "Hades.
Hades means the unknown. It is a realm created to hold the dead temporary until the judgment.
it is made up of two "compartments"
1. Paradise, also called "Abraham's bosom"(Luke 16 where Lazuras went) and the place Jesus said to the thief next to him, "thou shalt be with me in paradise".
2. Tartars - the place of suffering, the rich man was there, and the angels who sinned according to Jude and Peter
Hades, Hell and sheol are all the same place just different languages. The Grave of mankind, where the dead soul is.
Abrahams Bosom isnt the place mankind goes when dead. Its a Parable
God has never created a place man is to suffer. Are you implying man (the Rich Man ) will suffere BEFORE HE IS JUDGED?
Rich man is also a parable, I assume your refering to the eye of the needle and the rich man...Being rich is NOT a sin, Abraham was RICH.
Job. David were a few that expressed thy felt being left in Hell (Grave) without God would be torment to them, they lived for God. Man is not tormented with pain or suffering, Hell and death is cast away - done away with
Hades means the unknown. It is a realm created to hold the dead temporary until the judgment.
it is made up of two "compartments"
1. Paradise, also called "Abraham's bosom"(Luke 16 where Lazuras went) and the place Jesus said to the thief next to him, "thou shalt be with me in paradise".
2. Tartars - the place of suffering, the rich man was there, and the angels who sinned according to Jude and Peter
Hades, Hell and sheol are all the same place just different languages. The Grave of mankind, where the dead soul is.
Abrahams Bosom isnt the place mankind goes when dead. Its a Parable
God has never created a place man is to suffer. Are you implying man (the Rich Man ) will suffere BEFORE HE IS JUDGED?
Rich man is also a parable, I assume your refering to the eye of the needle and the rich man...Being rich is NOT a sin, Abraham was RICH.
Job. David were a few that expressed thy felt being left in Hell (Grave) without God would be torment to them, they lived for God. Man is not tormented with pain or suffering, Hell and death is cast away - done away with
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The answer to the question of abel blood is yea it cry out. But what did it cry out should be the question. It cry out a cruse for vengeace from the gound. God didn't cruse cain if you read what happean in genesiis 4 god repeat what was said and cain added to the cruse god never said what cain say's he say's. If one will look at heb. 12; 24 one will see the blood of abel (man) cry out vengeace but christ blood cry's out salvation the better witness. the same can be see in Rev. 6;10-11 when man's blood is told to shut up and given a white robe.
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It's not a parable, it does not fit a parable, nor does it teach anything concering the details of the rich and Lazus, both being in a conscinece afterlife, the suffering in a flam, the thirst, the remembrance of loved ones, the gulf between them, all would be unnecessary it were just a parable.
Jesus didnt use what does not happen to us to teach a lesson of greed, and no other Parable mentions anyone by name.
So I hear all say this is a parable, yet never can prove it, or give an valid reason for why.
The only reason is always the same, because of not wanting to believe the fate of the devils children.
If God is going to punish Satan, Angels for ever, why not Satan's children. Angels are his creation as well, why them but not us?
No I dont have to imply it, the Bible clearly says it. This does not mean he will not have to give an account to God, yet all who are in the same place will be thrown into the lake of fire - Rev 20.
Dont know what your talking about here, neve said anything about being rich, the rich and Lazuras Lk 16 is what I was refering, who said being rich was a sin? (in fact my real name is Bill G. No too revealing, lets just say B. Gates)
Hell is not cast away, nor is Hades. Hell is never said to be cast away, Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire.
The same place the beast and false prophet will be, to be tormented night and day forever.
The devil will be tormented, his angels will be tormented, and so will his children.
Matt 25, "and these will go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT prepared for the devil and his angels.
If one will be annihilated or cease to exist, then the punishment is not everlasting, the duration, is not the punishment, one must exist to experience punishment. They will be cast into the same place as the devil, why would you assume children of the devil will be gone, yet not the devil and his angles?
Trust me, I would like to believe what you do, that would narrow my chances have to experience this, yet I am not going to ingnore what is plainly said in passages that clearly tell us of the fate of the children of Satan.
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Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Maybe this is just referring to his body? Because in the below verse it seems his Spirit did go to the Father
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Maybe this is just referring to his body? Because in the below verse it seems his Spirit did go to the Father
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Psalm 68:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.
It appears to be about the resurrection of Jesus, sin was our captivity. We are all "the rebellious" for we were called out of our own iniquity.
King James Version (KJV)
18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.
It appears to be about the resurrection of Jesus, sin was our captivity. We are all "the rebellious" for we were called out of our own iniquity.
Now I'm puzzled. When Jesus was on the cross He said to the thief "today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43) which to me says those saved who are physically dead are now in Heaven but without their complete bodies. But on that day of the rapture they will be transformed first and then the rest of us. Same goes for those who aren't saved that go straight to hell (the first death) prior to lake of fire on judgement day (2nd death).
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Not at all it's about jesus desending to sheol the grave in Hebrew tongue (translated hell for why I don't know) Eph.4;10 tell about it in the new test.. And then Christ set free the captivity form sheol even the rebellious ones. The foundation of the new begian see also Matt. 27;51-53. Now let's talk about what happean next. thanks deadtosin for looking it up.
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Christ peeps ! Do not believe to be deceived, feed is feeding you His Truth, not some argument cast on you about unsaved dying and just being nothing. Where are the dead cast away said in scripture? I'll tell you where scripture says this. Nowhere .!
Read rev. 20:10 and then 14,15. .feed explanation perfect !
Laod is feeding you punctuational argument, oh please, must we denigrate God's defined meaning.
Paradise = sheol.
Yes, Laod, you say, 'no,' but Christ DID go to paradise. 'Ascending' does NOT matter, my friend.
Today you will be with me in paradise speaks of a connect of Jesus going to speak to the spirits in prison. Prison=hell,csheol, call it whatever you want, there is NOWHERE that the word '.parable' is mentioned in Luke 19 Lazarus and Dives.
Nowhere! Nowhere! Nowhere!
You deceptive moneychangers, cheapening the reality of God's word.
And, no, ahhh, another thing spirit=breath, which is life. What did God breath into Adam? 'The breath of life.'.
Our 'life,' when we die goes to God.
Hey how about breaking up this verse this way, someone else find it, but verse says 'nobody has descended to God but Jesus. Hey, that means what? No body has gone to Heaven. Ok, so, Our bodies not in Heaven yet. Yet. But what about our individual essences? What about our breath of life?
Within that breath of life fan there be our soul?
Where does our soul go? Could it be that it is with our spirit ?
Yes !
Read rev. 20:10 and then 14,15. .feed explanation perfect !
Laod is feeding you punctuational argument, oh please, must we denigrate God's defined meaning.
Paradise = sheol.
Yes, Laod, you say, 'no,' but Christ DID go to paradise. 'Ascending' does NOT matter, my friend.
Today you will be with me in paradise speaks of a connect of Jesus going to speak to the spirits in prison. Prison=hell,csheol, call it whatever you want, there is NOWHERE that the word '.parable' is mentioned in Luke 19 Lazarus and Dives.
Nowhere! Nowhere! Nowhere!
You deceptive moneychangers, cheapening the reality of God's word.
And, no, ahhh, another thing spirit=breath, which is life. What did God breath into Adam? 'The breath of life.'.
Our 'life,' when we die goes to God.
Hey how about breaking up this verse this way, someone else find it, but verse says 'nobody has descended to God but Jesus. Hey, that means what? No body has gone to Heaven. Ok, so, Our bodies not in Heaven yet. Yet. But what about our individual essences? What about our breath of life?
Within that breath of life fan there be our soul?
Where does our soul go? Could it be that it is with our spirit ?
Yes !
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With many such parables he spoke the word to them [the crowds], as they were able to hear it; he did not speak to them except in parables, but he explained everything in private to his disciples. (Mark 4:33-34).
'Those outside,' Jesus referred to the multitudes (seekers) , but was Luke 19 speaking any deciphering parable AFTER the Lazarus and Dives conversation [why MUST you insist this is a 'parable,' nowhere is it called one in scripture. Nowhere !
Remember , sower parable, it was of seeds thrown on ground , some grew on rocky ground, some thrown, just went into wind, gone, parachuting away like dandelion seeds. Then, after 'seeds' parable, the disciples were CONFUSED so Jesus explained the meaning behind the seeds.
I pray God shows mercy on those teaching luke 19 wrongly and, therefore, teaching hell (the 'second death,' which if you read Rev. 20:10 and 14-15 , the reality of death NOT really death, but 'torment day and night forever and ever' becomes clear.
And, no, that ^ is no parable
'Those outside,' Jesus referred to the multitudes (seekers) , but was Luke 19 speaking any deciphering parable AFTER the Lazarus and Dives conversation [why MUST you insist this is a 'parable,' nowhere is it called one in scripture. Nowhere !
Remember , sower parable, it was of seeds thrown on ground , some grew on rocky ground, some thrown, just went into wind, gone, parachuting away like dandelion seeds. Then, after 'seeds' parable, the disciples were CONFUSED so Jesus explained the meaning behind the seeds.
I pray God shows mercy on those teaching luke 19 wrongly and, therefore, teaching hell (the 'second death,' which if you read Rev. 20:10 and 14-15 , the reality of death NOT really death, but 'torment day and night forever and ever' becomes clear.
And, no, that ^ is no parable