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S
Here's a good tool:
BLB - Act 20: Acts of the Apostles 20 (Blue Letter Bible: ESV - English Standard Version)
In regards to that verse, it says the Greek word for "first day" is heis, which is one. It is used for the first day. Click on the Strong's word G1520 and then click "Click here for the rest of the entry" to see the full range of possible translations.
sabbaton would be one of the words for Sabbath in Greek, and it means seventh.
I wish I knew more about the original languages.
My guess is the reason that translation called it the Sabbath is because whoever wrote the translation considers Sunday to be the Sabbath. I do not call Sunday the Sabbath. Some Christians believe there was a transfer of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. I am not one of those. The word Sabbath refers to the seventh day of the week.
The presupposition of some Sunday keepers is that it is the New Covenant Sabbath. That is not my position. The Ten Commandments and the Sabbath are done away with, because they were part of the Old Covenant.
On the other hand, I believe a Christian needs to practice corporate worship on a regular basis and individual worship on a daily basis. If someone wants to do their corporate worship on Saturday or Sunday; it doesn't matter.
BLB - Act 20: Acts of the Apostles 20 (Blue Letter Bible: ESV - English Standard Version)
In regards to that verse, it says the Greek word for "first day" is heis, which is one. It is used for the first day. Click on the Strong's word G1520 and then click "Click here for the rest of the entry" to see the full range of possible translations.
sabbaton would be one of the words for Sabbath in Greek, and it means seventh.
I wish I knew more about the original languages.
My guess is the reason that translation called it the Sabbath is because whoever wrote the translation considers Sunday to be the Sabbath. I do not call Sunday the Sabbath. Some Christians believe there was a transfer of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. I am not one of those. The word Sabbath refers to the seventh day of the week.
The presupposition of some Sunday keepers is that it is the New Covenant Sabbath. That is not my position. The Ten Commandments and the Sabbath are done away with, because they were part of the Old Covenant.
On the other hand, I believe a Christian needs to practice corporate worship on a regular basis and individual worship on a daily basis. If someone wants to do their corporate worship on Saturday or Sunday; it doesn't matter.
yes, do as Yahweh says. and likewise do as Jesus and all the disciples do. since they all without questioning kept the sabbath as Yahweh says (not as mankind and the enemy says),
there's really no question.
possible, sparkman got so much hurt in the group he says he once was in, he's rebelling without thinking against that pain and loss.
if he comes to experiential knowledge of the truth in yahshua, yahweh willing, then
he will
simply do as yahweh says to do, and will keep all of yahweh's word and not pick and chose.
there's really no question.
possible, sparkman got so much hurt in the group he says he once was in, he's rebelling without thinking against that pain and loss.
if he comes to experiential knowledge of the truth in yahshua, yahweh willing, then
he will
simply do as yahweh says to do, and will keep all of yahweh's word and not pick and chose.
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S
My feelings about the issue are irrelevant.
I do not observe it because 1) it's not required as it is part of the ceremonial or ritualistic law that is done away with under the New Covenant 2) it detracts from the true gospel, which is about faith in Jesus Christ and not about works 3) most who keep the Sabbath claim others are unsaved or less spiritual than themselves and 4) many of them attend organizations which have aberrant theology in other ways besides Judaizing.
In addition, most Sabbathkeepers are Judaizers who believe that observing the Sabbath, festivals, clean/unclean meat laws and circumcision are conditions of salvation or necessary fruits of salvation. So, if a person does not observe these things ultimately they are unbelievers and still in their sin. Some may admit they are saved, but are spiritually inferior to other believers.
Sabbathkeepers generally will not come right out and tell other people that, but most of them hold that position. I held it myself as a Sabbathkeeper. I considered everyone who didn't keep the Sabbath, festivals, and other elements of the Old Covenant that I deemed to be required to be an unbeliever and still in their sin.
Jeff_56, would you care to state what your view is on this? If a person doesn't keep the Saturday Sabbath, do you think they are unsaved? What if they never keep the Sabbath in their life? Would you say they are unsaved or spiritually inferior to someone who does?
A lot of Sabbathkeepers will say that they don't judge such a person, and that it is up to God, but in reality they hold one of the above positions and they do not want to admit it.
There are some Sabbathkeepers who just observe these things because the days have meaning for them, and they do not judge others that don't observe them, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. I'm not going back into hypocrisy and judgmental attitudes over ceremonial and ritualistic observances. The Sabbath is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim.
I do not observe it because 1) it's not required as it is part of the ceremonial or ritualistic law that is done away with under the New Covenant 2) it detracts from the true gospel, which is about faith in Jesus Christ and not about works 3) most who keep the Sabbath claim others are unsaved or less spiritual than themselves and 4) many of them attend organizations which have aberrant theology in other ways besides Judaizing.
In addition, most Sabbathkeepers are Judaizers who believe that observing the Sabbath, festivals, clean/unclean meat laws and circumcision are conditions of salvation or necessary fruits of salvation. So, if a person does not observe these things ultimately they are unbelievers and still in their sin. Some may admit they are saved, but are spiritually inferior to other believers.
Sabbathkeepers generally will not come right out and tell other people that, but most of them hold that position. I held it myself as a Sabbathkeeper. I considered everyone who didn't keep the Sabbath, festivals, and other elements of the Old Covenant that I deemed to be required to be an unbeliever and still in their sin.
Jeff_56, would you care to state what your view is on this? If a person doesn't keep the Saturday Sabbath, do you think they are unsaved? What if they never keep the Sabbath in their life? Would you say they are unsaved or spiritually inferior to someone who does?
A lot of Sabbathkeepers will say that they don't judge such a person, and that it is up to God, but in reality they hold one of the above positions and they do not want to admit it.
There are some Sabbathkeepers who just observe these things because the days have meaning for them, and they do not judge others that don't observe them, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. I'm not going back into hypocrisy and judgmental attitudes over ceremonial and ritualistic observances. The Sabbath is not a moral absolute like Sabbathkeepers claim.
Jesus told all His disciples to get away often , spend time in prayer with YaHWEH,
EVERY DAY,
and told them that gradually their focus (the focus of His personal students/pupils/ disciples who were with Him daily)
would gradually change from themselves to YaHWEH.
Jesus said then, what you see YaHWEH do, do; what you hear YaHWEH say, say. (just like Jesus did all of His Life).
that's what's important.
EVERY DAY,
and told them that gradually their focus (the focus of His personal students/pupils/ disciples who were with Him daily)
would gradually change from themselves to YaHWEH.
Jesus said then, what you see YaHWEH do, do; what you hear YaHWEH say, say. (just like Jesus did all of His Life).
that's what's important.
J
Hey sparkman and others, I hope y'all are doing well. I know that observing the Sabbath can become a passionate issue, so please don't think I'm here to debate and make a point.
I've only started observing God's holy days within the past year. This is not something that I have been taught. It was never even mentioned in service. There were just some verses that I couldn't deny.
Old Testament:
1) Exodus 20:8 - The Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments. Even Jesus in Matthew 5 did not release us from obeying the commandments.
2) Leviticus 23:2 - God calls the feasts "My feasts" and not Israel's.
3) Ezekiel 20:12-16 - God calls the Sabbath "My Sabbath" and tells how the people have separated from it and Him. He pairs Himself with the Sabbath as a package deal.
4) Ezekiel 22:26 - God shines the light on the cause of the people forsaking the Sabbath...the preachers. Once again, He pairs Himself with the Sabbath as a package deal.
Jesus - Why not choose any of the other six days to do these things? He had to know that this would cause debate:
1) Luke 4:16 - He had a custom on the Sabbath.
2) Luke 4:31-36 - He spirituall healed on the Sabbath.
3) John 5:1-9 - He physically healed on the Sabbath.
4) Mark 2:27-28 - He is Lord of the Sabbath. Why be Lord of something that is/will be done away with?
Jesus showed that the Sabbath isn't about rules but is a reminder.
New Testament - Sabbath observing was still going on after Jesus:
1) Acts 17:2 - Paul developed a custom on the Sabbath like Jesus.
2) Acts 13:14-16 - Paul taught on the Sabbath. Also in Acts 18:4.
The Supposed Opposition - Verses should always be read in context and not isolated:
Romans 14:5-6 speaks of matters that involve choice/preference and how they should not be made into commandment. This is why Paul mentioned the eating of meat vs. plant only. If God doesn't restrict, then you can't turn your opinion and tradition into His commandment (Matt. 15:3, 6 & Mark 7:8-9). How do we know this was not speaking of God's holy days? God never gave a choice to man on these days; they were mandated and there was no discussion.
In Colossians 2:16-17, take notice that whether the Gentile saints at Colossae were keeping the Sabbath was never questioned by Paul. What was addressed was that some had put rules on how the occasions should be observed that God had not said so to do. For example, being told that you must address younger men in the church as "Brother so-and-so" and if you do not do so then you are wrong. God did not mandate this, yet people were governing as if it were God's commandment. People were trying to dictate what kind of meat and what kind of bread. This is not scripture to do so. Also notice that verse 17 says "are a shadow of things to come" and not "were". Paul speaks in the present tense and Jesus has already come for the first round. That means God's holy days point towards Jesus' second coming.
Read Galatians 4:8-10 together. When were God's holy days sourced from weak and beggarly elements? Verse 10 is speaking of using ungodly means to predict the future as well as pagan/idolatrous festivals (Leviticus 19:26, Deu. 18:10-14 & 2 Kings 21:6).
The Explanation:
Hebrews 3:7-Hebrews 4 shows how the physical rest taken in the old testament translated into spiritual rest for us in the new testament. Jesus used many physical parables to teach us spiritual lessons. Who do you think Jesus got that method from? God uses the Sabbath and the other holy days as a reminder like an alarm clock. He taught Peter that reminding the people is so necessary that to not do so is neglect (2 Peter 1:12). Sadly, people get so caught up in the OT vs. NT/the law vs. Jesus/Saturday vs. Sunday argument that they completely miss the beauty that God loves us so much as to leave us reminders to not miss the bus so to speak. Remember, God said the 7th day, not Saturday or Sunday, but the end of your work week. For some, Wednesday might be their day off from work. God is trying to keep you reminded that only those that are complete will enter into His rest (John 19:30; Hebrews 4:10; James 1:4). Don't get distracted.
While Jesus is all things God and all things from God, He does not replace the event itself (Hebrews 4:8-9). Jesus told Martha that He is the resurrection (John 11:25). While that is true, Jesus does not replace the actual event of the dead rising from their graves, otherwise Paul would have been false and we would have nothing to look forward to other than just staying dead (1 Thess. 4:16). Jesus only replaced the sacrifice in the Passover, not the event itself. Even He participated in the event (John 13:1). Have we ever known Jesus to pick and choose from God's law?
I've only started observing God's holy days within the past year. This is not something that I have been taught. It was never even mentioned in service. There were just some verses that I couldn't deny.
Old Testament:
1) Exodus 20:8 - The Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments. Even Jesus in Matthew 5 did not release us from obeying the commandments.
2) Leviticus 23:2 - God calls the feasts "My feasts" and not Israel's.
3) Ezekiel 20:12-16 - God calls the Sabbath "My Sabbath" and tells how the people have separated from it and Him. He pairs Himself with the Sabbath as a package deal.
4) Ezekiel 22:26 - God shines the light on the cause of the people forsaking the Sabbath...the preachers. Once again, He pairs Himself with the Sabbath as a package deal.
Jesus - Why not choose any of the other six days to do these things? He had to know that this would cause debate:
1) Luke 4:16 - He had a custom on the Sabbath.
2) Luke 4:31-36 - He spirituall healed on the Sabbath.
3) John 5:1-9 - He physically healed on the Sabbath.
4) Mark 2:27-28 - He is Lord of the Sabbath. Why be Lord of something that is/will be done away with?
Jesus showed that the Sabbath isn't about rules but is a reminder.
New Testament - Sabbath observing was still going on after Jesus:
1) Acts 17:2 - Paul developed a custom on the Sabbath like Jesus.
2) Acts 13:14-16 - Paul taught on the Sabbath. Also in Acts 18:4.
The Supposed Opposition - Verses should always be read in context and not isolated:
Romans 14:5-6 speaks of matters that involve choice/preference and how they should not be made into commandment. This is why Paul mentioned the eating of meat vs. plant only. If God doesn't restrict, then you can't turn your opinion and tradition into His commandment (Matt. 15:3, 6 & Mark 7:8-9). How do we know this was not speaking of God's holy days? God never gave a choice to man on these days; they were mandated and there was no discussion.
In Colossians 2:16-17, take notice that whether the Gentile saints at Colossae were keeping the Sabbath was never questioned by Paul. What was addressed was that some had put rules on how the occasions should be observed that God had not said so to do. For example, being told that you must address younger men in the church as "Brother so-and-so" and if you do not do so then you are wrong. God did not mandate this, yet people were governing as if it were God's commandment. People were trying to dictate what kind of meat and what kind of bread. This is not scripture to do so. Also notice that verse 17 says "are a shadow of things to come" and not "were". Paul speaks in the present tense and Jesus has already come for the first round. That means God's holy days point towards Jesus' second coming.
Read Galatians 4:8-10 together. When were God's holy days sourced from weak and beggarly elements? Verse 10 is speaking of using ungodly means to predict the future as well as pagan/idolatrous festivals (Leviticus 19:26, Deu. 18:10-14 & 2 Kings 21:6).
The Explanation:
Hebrews 3:7-Hebrews 4 shows how the physical rest taken in the old testament translated into spiritual rest for us in the new testament. Jesus used many physical parables to teach us spiritual lessons. Who do you think Jesus got that method from? God uses the Sabbath and the other holy days as a reminder like an alarm clock. He taught Peter that reminding the people is so necessary that to not do so is neglect (2 Peter 1:12). Sadly, people get so caught up in the OT vs. NT/the law vs. Jesus/Saturday vs. Sunday argument that they completely miss the beauty that God loves us so much as to leave us reminders to not miss the bus so to speak. Remember, God said the 7th day, not Saturday or Sunday, but the end of your work week. For some, Wednesday might be their day off from work. God is trying to keep you reminded that only those that are complete will enter into His rest (John 19:30; Hebrews 4:10; James 1:4). Don't get distracted.
While Jesus is all things God and all things from God, He does not replace the event itself (Hebrews 4:8-9). Jesus told Martha that He is the resurrection (John 11:25). While that is true, Jesus does not replace the actual event of the dead rising from their graves, otherwise Paul would have been false and we would have nothing to look forward to other than just staying dead (1 Thess. 4:16). Jesus only replaced the sacrifice in the Passover, not the event itself. Even He participated in the event (John 13:1). Have we ever known Jesus to pick and choose from God's law?
S
In regards to this topic concerning the Sabbath, I highly suggest that individuals who are being persuaded by Hebrew Roots or "Church of God" (Armstrongism) or Seventh Day Adventist teachings on this study the book of Galatians thoroughly.
Galatians refutes the claims of Judaizers who say that you must observe these non-moral elements of the Old Covenant.
Here is a good video that James White did on works-righteousness groups who make such claims:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70aoknJgGGY
I spent 10 years of my life following these sorts of teachings.
In addition, you will find that many of the groups who teach such things think they are the only true church, deny the salvation of other Christians, deny the Trinity, and teach other aberrant doctrines.
Galatians refutes the claims of Judaizers who say that you must observe these non-moral elements of the Old Covenant.
Here is a good video that James White did on works-righteousness groups who make such claims:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70aoknJgGGY
I spent 10 years of my life following these sorts of teachings.
In addition, you will find that many of the groups who teach such things think they are the only true church, deny the salvation of other Christians, deny the Trinity, and teach other aberrant doctrines.
S
This post is full of assertions and it's hard to address them all at one time.
I will comment on Matthew 5 first:
Sabbathkeepers will often claim Matthew 5:17-19 proves the need for New Covenant Christians to keep the Sabbath.
Matt 5:17-19 states the following:“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The phrase“Law and Prophets” refers to the Old Testament Scriptures.The Old Testament is divided into three different sections; the Law, Prophets, and Writings.The Law includes the first five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers).The Prophets include all of the books of the Prophets.The Writings include the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job.
Jesus was saying that he did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.He came to live a perfect life of obedience to the Old Covenant on our behalf.As God, he was able to be sinless and to fulfill the entire law.He was the reality that the animal sacrifices pointed to.Christ came to fulfill everything that the Old Testament said about him, including his sacrificial death on the behalf of mankind in Isaiah 53.
When did Christ fulfill the Law?He fulfilled the Law, as well as the prophecies concerning him, at the Cross:
John 19: 28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.” 29 A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
With regards to “these commandments” one could view this Scripture in two different ways.
One, if Christ is talking about the Law, referring back to verse 17, then the Law doesn’t apply to anyone today, although it did apply to the individuals he was speaking to…the Jews of his time.They were under the Old Covenant, and New Covenant Christians are not.
Either way, if the Sabbathkeeper claims that these verses prove the need to keep the Sabbath, then in order to be consistent, they need to keep the entire Law as it was when Christ made these remarks, including physical circumcision, animal sacrifices, the weekly Sabbath, festivals, clean and unclean meat laws and strict tithing laws.I would venture to say that none of them are doing all of these things.
I will comment on Matthew 5 first:
Sabbathkeepers will often claim Matthew 5:17-19 proves the need for New Covenant Christians to keep the Sabbath.
Matt 5:17-19 states the following:“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The phrase“Law and Prophets” refers to the Old Testament Scriptures.The Old Testament is divided into three different sections; the Law, Prophets, and Writings.The Law includes the first five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers).The Prophets include all of the books of the Prophets.The Writings include the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job.
Jesus was saying that he did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.He came to live a perfect life of obedience to the Old Covenant on our behalf.As God, he was able to be sinless and to fulfill the entire law.He was the reality that the animal sacrifices pointed to.Christ came to fulfill everything that the Old Testament said about him, including his sacrificial death on the behalf of mankind in Isaiah 53.
When did Christ fulfill the Law?He fulfilled the Law, as well as the prophecies concerning him, at the Cross:
John 19: 28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.” 29 A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
With regards to “these commandments” one could view this Scripture in two different ways.
One, if Christ is talking about the Law, referring back to verse 17, then the Law doesn’t apply to anyone today, although it did apply to the individuals he was speaking to…the Jews of his time.They were under the Old Covenant, and New Covenant Christians are not.
Either way, if the Sabbathkeeper claims that these verses prove the need to keep the Sabbath, then in order to be consistent, they need to keep the entire Law as it was when Christ made these remarks, including physical circumcision, animal sacrifices, the weekly Sabbath, festivals, clean and unclean meat laws and strict tithing laws.I would venture to say that none of them are doing all of these things.
S
Regarding Hebrews 4, I wrote a post concerning this earlier:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115326-hebrews-4-9-real-sabbath-jesus.html
The explanation I gave is internally consistent with the context of the book.
By the way, if someone believes that keeping the Sabbath or the Holy Days is meaningful for them, then I have no issue with them. If they claim others must keep it as a condition or necessary fruit of salvation or are spiritually inferior, they are preaching the "other gospel" that Paul addressed in Galatians. They are Judaizers. That's what it boils down to.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115326-hebrews-4-9-real-sabbath-jesus.html
The explanation I gave is internally consistent with the context of the book.
By the way, if someone believes that keeping the Sabbath or the Holy Days is meaningful for them, then I have no issue with them. If they claim others must keep it as a condition or necessary fruit of salvation or are spiritually inferior, they are preaching the "other gospel" that Paul addressed in Galatians. They are Judaizers. That's what it boils down to.
S
The explanation you gave above is inconsistent with the context of the chapter.
The group that was teaching false things in Colossae was probably a group of Essene Jews who were mixing elements of the Old Covenant with other pagan beliefs.
The overall message of Colossians 2 is that believers are complete in Christ, and don't need to follow the teachings of these heretics to approach God. They didn't need any secret knowledge provided by these false teachers. They already had this knowledge in Christ (v. 1-4). Notice how the believers were "filled" or "complete" in Him (v. 10). Notice how they were spiritually circumcised("without hands"), by putting off the body of flesh, through him (v.11). Notice how we are made alive in Him through his death, burial and resurrection (v. 12-15).
You should notice the repetitive use of "in him" in this part of the chapter. The message was that the Colossians were already complete in Christ. They didn't need to be physically circumcised, and they didn't need any special spiritual knowledge offered by those claiming special insight in order to approach Christ.
If one views Colossians 2:16-17 in light of the fact that the preceding verses are talking about our completeness in Christ, as well as the following verses, one can see that these heretical teachers were attempting to bring the Colossians under control of their teachings. Part of their teachings included observance of the weekly Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moons.
Notice that these heretical teachers were attempting to restrict their behavior, and to bring the believers under control, all throughout the chapter. They were trying to enforce regulations upon them which didn't apply as they were already complete in Christ. So, for Paul to mention the Sabbath, Holy Days, and Festivals as binding and required right in the middle of this context does not make sense. These teachers were trying to restrict behavior, not tell them they didn't have to do certain things anymore. Paul, on the other hand, was showing them that they were complete in Christ and did not have to approach God in this way, through asceticism, legalism, and all kinds of rules and regulations.
The context and behavior of these false teachers simply does not fit the assertion that Paul was claiming they needed to keep the Sabbath, Holy Days, and festivals. These teachers were being restrictive.
By the way, redefining the context is a typical tactic of false teachers. Herbert Armstrong, the man who led the Sabbath/festival keeping cult I belonged to, did the same thing. If the passage plainly refuted his theology, he created a context to explain it away.
In addition, the assertion that the Holy Days portray the plan of God in a sequential order is very doubtful. For instance, the Day of Atonement points toward the atonement of Christ, which is in the past. Armstrongism tried to define the other goat as being Satan, to claim it's talking about his binding before the Millennium, but this is not true as it would make Satan our sin-bearer. In addition, the Feast of Tabernacles portrays Christ's incarnation and that is a past event. I do not believe it refers to the Millennium. A lot of the assertions out there concerning the holy days are not solid.
The group that was teaching false things in Colossae was probably a group of Essene Jews who were mixing elements of the Old Covenant with other pagan beliefs.
The overall message of Colossians 2 is that believers are complete in Christ, and don't need to follow the teachings of these heretics to approach God. They didn't need any secret knowledge provided by these false teachers. They already had this knowledge in Christ (v. 1-4). Notice how the believers were "filled" or "complete" in Him (v. 10). Notice how they were spiritually circumcised("without hands"), by putting off the body of flesh, through him (v.11). Notice how we are made alive in Him through his death, burial and resurrection (v. 12-15).
You should notice the repetitive use of "in him" in this part of the chapter. The message was that the Colossians were already complete in Christ. They didn't need to be physically circumcised, and they didn't need any special spiritual knowledge offered by those claiming special insight in order to approach Christ.
If one views Colossians 2:16-17 in light of the fact that the preceding verses are talking about our completeness in Christ, as well as the following verses, one can see that these heretical teachers were attempting to bring the Colossians under control of their teachings. Part of their teachings included observance of the weekly Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moons.
Notice that these heretical teachers were attempting to restrict their behavior, and to bring the believers under control, all throughout the chapter. They were trying to enforce regulations upon them which didn't apply as they were already complete in Christ. So, for Paul to mention the Sabbath, Holy Days, and Festivals as binding and required right in the middle of this context does not make sense. These teachers were trying to restrict behavior, not tell them they didn't have to do certain things anymore. Paul, on the other hand, was showing them that they were complete in Christ and did not have to approach God in this way, through asceticism, legalism, and all kinds of rules and regulations.
The context and behavior of these false teachers simply does not fit the assertion that Paul was claiming they needed to keep the Sabbath, Holy Days, and festivals. These teachers were being restrictive.
By the way, redefining the context is a typical tactic of false teachers. Herbert Armstrong, the man who led the Sabbath/festival keeping cult I belonged to, did the same thing. If the passage plainly refuted his theology, he created a context to explain it away.
In addition, the assertion that the Holy Days portray the plan of God in a sequential order is very doubtful. For instance, the Day of Atonement points toward the atonement of Christ, which is in the past. Armstrongism tried to define the other goat as being Satan, to claim it's talking about his binding before the Millennium, but this is not true as it would make Satan our sin-bearer. In addition, the Feast of Tabernacles portrays Christ's incarnation and that is a past event. I do not believe it refers to the Millennium. A lot of the assertions out there concerning the holy days are not solid.
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J
Hey sparkman,
Your name is true to you and I admire the wealth of explanation you have. If we all would spend time acquiring such wealth in the spiritual rather than physical things then it would be impossible to miss eternal life (Colossians 3:16 & Luke 12:21).
It doesn't please God to debate so I will steer clear of it as I stated previously (Rom. 1:29; 2 Cor. 12:20; Titus 3:9). On another matter, I will say that we have to understand our enemy (1 Peter 5:8). We can be so full of knowledge and the "I know I'm right" mind that instead of winning a soul (James 5:20), we prepared as if preparing for a debate tournament and won the argument. There's a difference. James 23 says that you can rebuke (sharply correct) some and they will not be offended and simply take the raw word of God. James 22 says that some will take it personal and be offended and lash out. The offended may offer a bit of sarcasm and maybe even an insult. But it wasn't the administering of the word of God alone that sealed the conversion, but how you gracefully received the injury they dished out. Forgiving instantly and conducting yourself as if there was nothing to forgive all in the same swoop. Some need to notice that before they can receive the explanation (Acts 6:15;Acts 7:58-60; 1 Peter 2:23). If a person can tell I'm being sarcastic, laughing at them and just pelting them with facts while they're down, how should that win their soul? I would become consumed with point making instead of soul winning.
We also must understand the relationship between the OT and NT. The OT is the physical of the same thing that the NT is the spiritual. To kill isn't wrong because the NT says it. Where did the NT get that from? For me to obey a commandment that originated in the OT, so should I revert back to animal sacrifices and placing blood on my ear, thumb and toe? This is the purpose of Matthew 5. Jesus can't fulfill something that is done away with. So what of the OT is dead to us? There are three dispensations:
1) Commandments-You have to know the rules before you can properly play the game (Rom. 7:7)
2) Jesus-How can I rightfully claim the prize if I don't fairly play the game (2 Tim. 2:5)?
3) Holy Spirit-Even though I know the rules and have seen a demonstration, it's strategy that will prevail (Philippians. 2:5-8; Zech. 4:6).
What is dead to us pertaining to the OT is that righteousness will be imputed unto us simply because we kept a rule listing. There was a time that was enough. Jesus was sent to show that rule keeping will no longer be enough because there is more to the rule. Matthew 5 shows that the three dispensations are about harmony, not replacement. Jesus replaced the OT and the Spirit? Or, Jesus replaced the OT and the Spirit replaced Jesus? Replace is the wrong word. It's about taking on a mentality and not a check-off list of rules. There is a time when simply getting the rules down in playing an instrument or chess is over. Now it's time to show mastery through technique and strategy. The author said it's shameful to still be fumbling around with the rules when you should have grown past them (Hebrews 5:11-12). Not to replace them, but to grow (fulfill).
Sometimes we think that we know what a word means, but we don't exhibit the full definition. To consider does not mean to think about something a lot or to not ignore something. To consider means to entertain something in a way that you give it permission to access you for the opportunity to persuade you. Such is the case between Paul and King Agrippa (Acts 26:28). My wealth of knowledge and unfavorable past experiences should not be the deciding factor in whether I consider.
Your name is true to you and I admire the wealth of explanation you have. If we all would spend time acquiring such wealth in the spiritual rather than physical things then it would be impossible to miss eternal life (Colossians 3:16 & Luke 12:21).
It doesn't please God to debate so I will steer clear of it as I stated previously (Rom. 1:29; 2 Cor. 12:20; Titus 3:9). On another matter, I will say that we have to understand our enemy (1 Peter 5:8). We can be so full of knowledge and the "I know I'm right" mind that instead of winning a soul (James 5:20), we prepared as if preparing for a debate tournament and won the argument. There's a difference. James 23 says that you can rebuke (sharply correct) some and they will not be offended and simply take the raw word of God. James 22 says that some will take it personal and be offended and lash out. The offended may offer a bit of sarcasm and maybe even an insult. But it wasn't the administering of the word of God alone that sealed the conversion, but how you gracefully received the injury they dished out. Forgiving instantly and conducting yourself as if there was nothing to forgive all in the same swoop. Some need to notice that before they can receive the explanation (Acts 6:15;Acts 7:58-60; 1 Peter 2:23). If a person can tell I'm being sarcastic, laughing at them and just pelting them with facts while they're down, how should that win their soul? I would become consumed with point making instead of soul winning.
We also must understand the relationship between the OT and NT. The OT is the physical of the same thing that the NT is the spiritual. To kill isn't wrong because the NT says it. Where did the NT get that from? For me to obey a commandment that originated in the OT, so should I revert back to animal sacrifices and placing blood on my ear, thumb and toe? This is the purpose of Matthew 5. Jesus can't fulfill something that is done away with. So what of the OT is dead to us? There are three dispensations:
1) Commandments-You have to know the rules before you can properly play the game (Rom. 7:7)
2) Jesus-How can I rightfully claim the prize if I don't fairly play the game (2 Tim. 2:5)?
3) Holy Spirit-Even though I know the rules and have seen a demonstration, it's strategy that will prevail (Philippians. 2:5-8; Zech. 4:6).
What is dead to us pertaining to the OT is that righteousness will be imputed unto us simply because we kept a rule listing. There was a time that was enough. Jesus was sent to show that rule keeping will no longer be enough because there is more to the rule. Matthew 5 shows that the three dispensations are about harmony, not replacement. Jesus replaced the OT and the Spirit? Or, Jesus replaced the OT and the Spirit replaced Jesus? Replace is the wrong word. It's about taking on a mentality and not a check-off list of rules. There is a time when simply getting the rules down in playing an instrument or chess is over. Now it's time to show mastery through technique and strategy. The author said it's shameful to still be fumbling around with the rules when you should have grown past them (Hebrews 5:11-12). Not to replace them, but to grow (fulfill).
Sometimes we think that we know what a word means, but we don't exhibit the full definition. To consider does not mean to think about something a lot or to not ignore something. To consider means to entertain something in a way that you give it permission to access you for the opportunity to persuade you. Such is the case between Paul and King Agrippa (Acts 26:28). My wealth of knowledge and unfavorable past experiences should not be the deciding factor in whether I consider.
Quotation from this thread.http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/81435-truth-about-sabbath-31.html#post2127516
The real Sabbath has nothing to do with the Catholic Gregorian (pope Gregory) calendar. That calendar is the cause for much Sabbath controversy for the most part. The Gregorian calendar has more to do with paganism than Christianity.
The real Sabbath has nothing to do with the Catholic Gregorian (pope Gregory) calendar. That calendar is the cause for much Sabbath controversy for the most part. The Gregorian calendar has more to do with paganism than Christianity.
The First Day: Sunday was named after the Sun god.
The second Day: Monday was named after the moon goddess.
The Third Day: Tuesday was named after the god Tyr.
The Fourth Day: Wednesday was named after the god Odin.
The Fifth Day: Thursday was named after the god Thor.
The Sixth Day: Friday was named after the goddess Frigga.
The Seventh Day: Saturday was named after the god Saturn.
The second Day: Monday was named after the moon goddess.
The Third Day: Tuesday was named after the god Tyr.
The Fourth Day: Wednesday was named after the god Odin.
The Fifth Day: Thursday was named after the god Thor.
The Sixth Day: Friday was named after the goddess Frigga.
The Seventh Day: Saturday was named after the god Saturn.
JANUARY: Named for Janus, the Roman mighty one of portals and patron of beginnings and endings, to whom this month was sacred. He is shown as having two faces, one in front, the other at the back of his head, supposedly to symbolize his powers.
FEBRUARY: This name is derived from Februa, a Roman festival of purification. It was originally the month of expiation.
MARCH: It is named for Mars, the Roman mighty one of war.
APRIL: This name comes from the Latin APRILIS, indicating a time of Fertility. It was believed that this month is the month when the earth was supposed to open up for the plants to grow.
MAY: This month was named for Maia, the Roman female deity of growth or increase.
JUNE: This name is sometimes attributed to June, the female mighty one of the marriage, the wife of Jupiter in Roman mythology. She was also called the "Queen of heaven" and " Queen of mighty ones." The name of this month is also attributed to Junius Brutus, but originally it most probably referred to the month in which crops grow to ripeness.
JULY: Named for the Roman emperor Julius Caesar, this is the seventh month of the Gregorian year.
AUGUST: Named for Octavius Augustus Caesar, emperor of Rome; the name was originally from augure, which means, "to increase."
SEPTEMBER: This name is derived from the Latin septem, meaning "seven."
OCTOBER This name comes from the Latin root octo, meaning "eight."
NOVEMBER: This name is derived from Latin novem, meaning "ninth."
DECEMBER: This name comes from the Latin decem, meaning 'ten'.
The last 4 months of the Gregorian year are the closest link to the original times and seasons recorded in the Bible.
The 7th month is Tishri = September
The 8th month is Heshvan = October
The 9th month is Kislev = November
The 10th month is Tevet = December
There are 2 months left in the year, according to the Biblical times, set up by God Almighty Himself. These are "Shevat" the 11th month, and "Adar" the 12th month. Accordingly, there is an extra month added at the end of every other year, or every 3rd year called Adar 2 so as to adjust to the spring and fall harvests of the year between the 1st and 7th months of the Hebrew observances.
FEBRUARY: This name is derived from Februa, a Roman festival of purification. It was originally the month of expiation.
MARCH: It is named for Mars, the Roman mighty one of war.
APRIL: This name comes from the Latin APRILIS, indicating a time of Fertility. It was believed that this month is the month when the earth was supposed to open up for the plants to grow.
MAY: This month was named for Maia, the Roman female deity of growth or increase.
JUNE: This name is sometimes attributed to June, the female mighty one of the marriage, the wife of Jupiter in Roman mythology. She was also called the "Queen of heaven" and " Queen of mighty ones." The name of this month is also attributed to Junius Brutus, but originally it most probably referred to the month in which crops grow to ripeness.
JULY: Named for the Roman emperor Julius Caesar, this is the seventh month of the Gregorian year.
AUGUST: Named for Octavius Augustus Caesar, emperor of Rome; the name was originally from augure, which means, "to increase."
SEPTEMBER: This name is derived from the Latin septem, meaning "seven."
OCTOBER This name comes from the Latin root octo, meaning "eight."
NOVEMBER: This name is derived from Latin novem, meaning "ninth."
DECEMBER: This name comes from the Latin decem, meaning 'ten'.
The last 4 months of the Gregorian year are the closest link to the original times and seasons recorded in the Bible.
The 7th month is Tishri = September
The 8th month is Heshvan = October
The 9th month is Kislev = November
The 10th month is Tevet = December
There are 2 months left in the year, according to the Biblical times, set up by God Almighty Himself. These are "Shevat" the 11th month, and "Adar" the 12th month. Accordingly, there is an extra month added at the end of every other year, or every 3rd year called Adar 2 so as to adjust to the spring and fall harvests of the year between the 1st and 7th months of the Hebrew observances.
We don't throw it out, the new covenant just changed the way its observed. Jesus didn't change the law, he fulfilled the law and became our sabbath rest.
The Sabbath rest is and has always been in Christ. The day was set aside with that significance. God rested (paused) after physically creating everything, but His work was not finished until Jesus said "It is finished" (John 19:30). After that, the seventh day no longer represented "rest", because we now had the real thing. The 'Lord of the Sabbath' had replaced a day of promise. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). The spiritual work was finished in Christ, the promise was realized in Christ, our rest is in Christ. "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath" (Mark 2:27). I believe the sabbath day was set aside for man as a prelude to Christ. Just as animal sacrifice and the Levitical priesthood were fulfilled in Christ, our rest is now in Jesus, not on Saturday or any other day."Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8) was replaced with "This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19). "We which have believed do enter into rest" (Hebrews 4:3). So our rest is found in Christ, we commemorate him and no longer observe a 24 hour period that was only meant as a forerunner to the Lord's rest. The new covenant promises that whomsoever puts their faith in Christ can rest from the curse of the law which imprisoned us from ever achieving spiritual rest via our own work. So in my opinion, laying around on Saturdays does not secure salvation, but our sabbath is observed in Christ, who finished the work. We rest in his work, not from our own. Today, I don't think its right for Christians to worship a holy day, because its no substitute for our true rest, which can only be found in Christ. jmo
The Sabbath rest is and has always been in Christ. The day was set aside with that significance. God rested (paused) after physically creating everything, but His work was not finished until Jesus said "It is finished" (John 19:30). After that, the seventh day no longer represented "rest", because we now had the real thing. The 'Lord of the Sabbath' had replaced a day of promise. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). The spiritual work was finished in Christ, the promise was realized in Christ, our rest is in Christ. "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath" (Mark 2:27). I believe the sabbath day was set aside for man as a prelude to Christ. Just as animal sacrifice and the Levitical priesthood were fulfilled in Christ, our rest is now in Jesus, not on Saturday or any other day."Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8) was replaced with "This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me" (Luke 22:19). "We which have believed do enter into rest" (Hebrews 4:3). So our rest is found in Christ, we commemorate him and no longer observe a 24 hour period that was only meant as a forerunner to the Lord's rest. The new covenant promises that whomsoever puts their faith in Christ can rest from the curse of the law which imprisoned us from ever achieving spiritual rest via our own work. So in my opinion, laying around on Saturdays does not secure salvation, but our sabbath is observed in Christ, who finished the work. We rest in his work, not from our own. Today, I don't think its right for Christians to worship a holy day, because its no substitute for our true rest, which can only be found in Christ. jmo
God also gave His people, specifically the tribe of Judah,
the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of the correct day (Romans 3:2).
The Jews of our time have done this job well.
There is no question as to which day is the Sabbath day to a Jew.
Yet, it is not a Jewish day!
the Sabbath day was a gift to all man
the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of the correct day (Romans 3:2).
The Jews of our time have done this job well.
There is no question as to which day is the Sabbath day to a Jew.
Yet, it is not a Jewish day!
the Sabbath day was a gift to all man