Questions for Orthodox Jews

[ZNP]

“O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah” (Jeremiah 22:29-30).

How do the Orthodox Jews say that the Messiah is going to be the Son of David and inherit the throne of David when their is a curse on the house of Jeconiah that none of his descendants will sit upon the throne of David?

 

[Eli1]

I personally know orthodox jews and atheist jews.
My atheist jew friend is actually more honest than the orthodox jews and he tells me a lot of things i knew about orthodox jews such as : They are stuck in tradition and have zero spirituality.
I knew this because the region where i came from also has many people who are stuck in tradition and have zero spirituality.
There was an Albanian guy here and i told him how the Jews have the same type of mindset as the northern Albanians who are stuck in tradition for ages.

 

[Nehemiah6]

How do the Orthodox Jews say that the Messiah is going to be the Son of David and inherit the throne of David when their is a curse on the house of Jeconiah that none of his descendants will sit upon the throne of David?

It is not just Orthodox Jews who believe this. All Bible-believing Christians believe it.

Since Joseph had nothing to do with the birth of Christ, the curse of Jeconiah was totally avoided. The genealogy of Christ in Matthew 1 shows the descent of Jospeh from Jeconiah: 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:...16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

 

[ZNP]

It is not just Orthodox Jews who believe this. All Bible-believing Christians believe it.

Since Joseph had nothing to do with the birth of Christ, the curse of Jeconiah was totally avoided. The genealogy of Christ in Matthew 1 shows the descent of Jospeh from Jeconiah: 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:...16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Yes, but it necessitates the virgin birth because Mary was not descended from the line of kings, when Joseph married Mary he adopted Jesus and so Jesus got the kingly line by adoption.

Still, I'd like to hear what the Orthodox Jews say.

 

[ZNP]

I personally know orthodox jews and atheist jews.
My atheist jew friend is actually more honest than the orthodox jews and he tells me a lot of things i knew about orthodox jews such as : They are stuck in tradition and have zero spirituality.
I knew this because the region where i came from also has many people who are stuck in tradition and have zero spirituality.
There was an Albanian guy here and i told him how the Jews have the same type of mindset as the northern Albanians who are stuck in tradition for ages.

Yep, I thought Orthodox meant they were "fundamental" meaning every word of the Bible is the word of God. That isn't what they mean because they explain away major portions of the Torah and ignore major portions of the prophets. No, it means they keep the traditions.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Still, I'd like to hear what the Orthodox Jews say.

Why would you expect Orthodox Jews to be answering questions on Christian forums? Since Christ's genealogy is found only in the NT, they will not be aware of how the curse was avoided.

 

[JaumeJ]

“O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah” (Jeremiah 22:29-30).

How do the Orthodox Jews say that the Messiah is going to be the Son of David and inherit the throne of David when their is a curse on the house of Jeconiah that none of his descendants will sit upon the throne of David?

Could it be that because the name David translated from the original Hebrew means, Beloved. Does this help to understand what is being foretold? It has always helped me. Oh and keep in mine that David's father, Jesse, is blessed with a name that translates as My Redeemer, Jesse. That helps to understand the prophecies also.

 

[ZNP]

Why would you expect Orthodox Jews to be answering questions on Christian forums? Since Christ's genealogy is found only in the NT, they will not be aware of how the curse was avoided.

The forum is open to everybody and we had an Orthodox Jew who came onto the forum specifically to answer questions.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Does this help to understand what is being foretold?

Not exactly. David was promised an eternal throne, and only Jesus of Nazareth could make that possible. So God ensured that Jeconiah would not enter into the line from David to Christ. Since Joseph descended from Solomon and made Christ his legal heir, Christ had the legal right to David's throne.

Also, something which needs to be mentioned is that even though Christ is called "the son of David" and has the legal right to David's throne, Christ is God and has His own throne. Therefore Christ will had the throne back to David during and after the Millennium (Ezek 37:24,25).

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

David will be the human "king" (melek) over Israel, but under Christ he will be a "prince" (nasi), since Christ will be the King or Israel. So both words are used here.

 

[ZNP]

Could it be that because the name David translated from the original Hebrew means, Beloved. Does this help to understand what is being foretold? It has always helped me. Oh and keep in mine that David's father, Jesse, is blessed with a name that translates as My Redeemer, Jesse. That helps to understand the prophecies also.

I think it is exceedingly meaningful. Jehoiakim sinned and was erased from the genealogy of Jesus, that is a huge warning. Why was he erased? Because he took Jeremiah's prophecy and burned it in the fire trying to erase God's word. This is what the apostasy does, everyone should be warned, you don't erase God's word or else you will be erased.

Jehoiakim did this because he was exceedingly arrogant, therefore repenting of that sin requires you be humbled and that is what the husband of Mary a virgin carrying God's child, had to be, so Joseph being a righteous man was willing to be humbled under the mighty hand of God and so that allowed this line of David's descendants to again take part in the blessing of the Messiah's reign.

That in turn should be very encouraging to all of us, perhaps our repentance of our sins will also work out to the fulfillment of God's plan.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The forum is open to everybody and we had an Orthodox Jew who came onto the forum specifically to answer questions.

It may be open tp everybody, but only one Orthodox Jew came to it. Generally Orthodox Jews will not be coming here just like you won't be visiting their forums.

 

[Magenta]

we had an Orthodox Jew who came onto the forum specifically to answer questions.

I see her thread has been closed to further replies...

My atheist jew friend

According to the aforementioned poster, someone who is an atheist cannot be a Jew.

Of course, that is just nonsense.

 

[ZNP]

It may be open tp everybody, but only one Orthodox Jew came to it. Generally Orthodox Jews will not be coming here just like you won't be visiting their forums.

My reason for asking this question of them is that they believe that the Messiah is coming, so then the Messiah needs to be the son of David and yet he can't be from Jehoiakim's line (can they tell?) yet if he is not from Jehoiakim's line he is not in line for the throne. So then, how do the rabbis reconcile this?

Basically they deny that Jesus is the Messiah and they even accused Him of being a bastard in the gospel of John and the Psalms also allude to this. I am trying to drill down on the hypocrisy of this, that the Jewish leaders will be without excuse.

 

[Nehemiah6]

According to the aforementioned poster, someone who is an atheist cannot be a Jew.

Unless they are ethnically Jews, but have turned atheistic, such as Karl Marx.

 

[Magenta]

Unless they are ethnically Jews, but have turned atheistic, such as Karl Marx.

Did she make that clarification? I don't think she did.

 

[JaumeJ]

Not exactly. David was promised an eternal throne, and only Jesus of Nazareth could make that possible. So God ensured that Jeconiah would not enter into the line from David to Christ. Since Joseph descended from Solomon and made Christ his legal heir, Christ had the legal right to David's throne.

Also, something which needs to be mentioned is that even though Christ is called "the son of David" and has the legal right to David's throne, Christ is God and has His own throne. Therefore Christ will had the throne back to David during and after the Millennium (Ezek 37:24,25).

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

David will be the human "king" (melek) over Israel, but under Christ he will be a "prince" (nasi), since Christ will be the King or Israel. So both words are used here.

We all believe much without understanding, and this is not bad for it demonstrates having faith in God/s word.

Wi this in mind, it is even easy to believe that Jesus is the true David, or Beloved Whos sits on the Throne of David, for Just as My redeemer is the Father of the Beloved, so the true Beloved is the Father of all who call upon the Beloved, Jesus Yeshua, for Salvation through grace and mercy.
It is just like when we read Isaiah 9:6 and learn that among other titles the Child of the Virgin would also be Called Almighty god, and Everlasting Father, and let us not forget Comforter and Counselor. I do not lay claim to understanding this totally, for I know there is mystery yet to be unveiled for us all, however the gift of faith, given even to me, allows me to believe these teachings from Isaiah are true.

 

[Eli1]

I see her thread has been closed to further replies...

According to the aforementioned poster, someone who is an atheist cannot be a Jew.

Of course, that is just nonsense.

Yeah a lot of people who are stuck in tradition or dogmatic interpretations cannot process anything outside of their bubble.
Not only my friend is a Jewish atheist but his mom was also actually supporting the gay people by dying her hair purple. I met her, she didn't speak a word of English and after i asked my fried why does she does it, he said that "that's how she is".
He argues a lot with her on the phone too when i'm at work, speaking Hebrew.
I found this very odd because the older generations are usually more conservative, but then i thought of my people up north in Albania who have been stuck in tradition for ages and it all made sense.

 

[Cameron143]

We all believe much without understanding, and this is not bad for it demonstrates having faith in God/s word.

Wi this in mind, it is even easy to believe that Jesus is the true David, or Beloved Whos sits on the Throne of David, for Just as My redeemer is the Father of the Beloved, so the true Beloved is the Father of all who call upon the Beloved, Jesus Yeshua, for Salvation through grace and mercy.
It is just like when we read Isaiah 9:6 and learn that among other titles the Child of the Virgin would also be Called Almighty god, and Everlasting Father, and let us not forget Comforter and Counselor. I do not lay claim to understanding this totally, for I know there is mystery yet to be unveiled for us all, however the gift of faith, given even to me, allows me to believe these teachings from Isaiah are true.

Isaiah 9:6 isn't hard to understand, but it is very misunderstood. It is simply a description of Messiah, the chosen servant of God.

...the government upon His shoulder...He has all authority.
...Wonderful...He is full of wonder and awe. He will amaze people.
...Counsellor...He is omniscient and an authority on all matters. His word is authoritative and can be trusted.
...mighty...He is omnipotent.
...God...He is of one essence with the Father and Spirit.
...Father...this is where most people struggle with the verse. It is not a reference to God the Father. Remember that the verse concerns the Messiah. It is descriptive of Jesus' attitude concerning His people and people in general. As a mother would gather her chicks, so too does Jesus desire mankind to be gathered unto Himself. He, like the Father, has a fatherly affection towards mankind.
...everlasting...the aforementioned fatherly character will ever be present and evident.
Prince...speaks to his stature and majesty.
Peace...speaks to His authorship and accomplishment of this condition with God and for us. This allows us to enter into His rest.

 

[Magenta]

Yeah a lot of people who are stuck in tradition or dogmatic interpretations cannot process anything outside of their bubble.
Not only my friend is a Jewish atheist but his mom was also actually supporting the gay people by dying her hair purple.
I met her, she didn't speak a word of English and after i asked my fried why does she does it, he said that "that's how she is".
He argues a lot with her on the phone too when i'm at work, speaking Hebrew.
I found this very odd because the older generations are usually more conservative, but then i thought
of my people up north in Albania who have been stuck in tradition for ages and it all made sense.

My apologies for my tardy response; I was on the phone with my twin brother for close to two hours .

Curious about what I have bolded above. Do you think that anyone who dyes their hair purple does it to support gay issues? .

A newcomer once told me he knew I was not a Christian because I design
Scripture panels with woman who have purple/pink/blue etc. hair .

So I posted this panel back to him:

Psalm 104:33-35

 

[Eli1]

My apologies for my tardy response; I was on the phone with my twin brother for close to two hours .

Curious about what I have bolded above. Do you think that anyone who dyes their hair purple does it to support gay issues? .

A newcomer once told me he knew I was not a Christian because I design
Scripture panels with woman who have purple/pink/blue etc. hair .

So I posted this panel back to him:

Psalm 104:33-35

Remember another member here who said that he got a lot of complains from the priest and the members of the church because he was dressed as a monk during the liturgy service?
My response to him was: there is a time and a place for everything.

So, with that in mind we can discern a few things. Not everyone who dyes their hair purple means that they support the gay agenda.
Also, at the same time, the color and the texture can say a lot about someone supporting an agenda or they're simply being classy about their hair color.
In specific to that picture: that hair style looks classy to me so even if we've never said anything to each other i'd assume you don't have an agenda. Also knowing you during our exchanges here, i can say that you're not supporting an agenda and you love beautiful art.
In general, you can see immediately in real life, how people act, or how they've done their hair style or color.
The colors that the trans people use are very ugly, don't even have any style or aesthetic to them, and on top of that, they do it to support an agenda.
So there are a lot of layers we need to peel down.