Rapture= false teaching

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Definition_Christ

Guest
#261
#261
watchmen said:
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

2nd Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

I do not know where you are getting you information, or why you are buying it, but you are to smart to be indoctrinated by pretrib theologians. Let God's word speak for itself.
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Okay persecution you know very well is not referring to the great tribulation.. Why would you try to pull that one?... You know exactly what that means.

John 17:15 Come on Watchmen.. Why are you using that to refer to the great tribulation?

You don't need me to explain any of these verses to you because you know that none of them are referring to the great tribulation.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#262
Apr 23, 2009
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#262
Definition_Christ said:
Okay persecution you know very well is not referring to the great tribulation.. Why would you try to pull that one?... You know exactly what that means.

John 17:15 Come on Watchmen.. Why are you using that to refer to the great tribulation?

You don't need me to explain any of these verses to you because you know that none of them are referring to the great tribulation.
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Because you claim...
they did not endure ANY tribulation.
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The fact is you are to smart to be indoctrinated by pretrib theologians. Let God's word speak for itself.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#263
#263
watchmen said:
Because you claim...
The fact is you are to smart to be indoctrinated by pretrib theologians. Let God's word speak for itself.
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Oh, okay I missed your point sorry. I thought you were trying to connect those to the great tribulation. Yes of course we go through tribulation that was poor wording on my part. I know that, you know that and the bible teaches that. I meant God's wrath.. The righteous will not suffer through God's wrath.. IE God flooded the world, Noah was protected did not endure God's wrath.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#264
Apr 23, 2009
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#264
Definition_Christ said:
Oh, okay I missed your point sorry. I thought you were trying to connect those to the great tribulation. Yes of course we go through tribulation that was poor wording on my part. I know that, you know that and the bible teaches that. I meant God's wrath.. The righteous will not suffer through God's wrath.. IE God flooded the world, Noah was protected did not endure God's wrath.
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I agree we will not suffer God's wrath, but according to John the baptist, as well as Jesus the wrath of God is the destruction of the wicked by fire that occurs at the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns, at which point we will be removed, but not before the tribulation but at the post trib 2nd coming right before the fire falls.

References: Matthew 3:5 and 12, Luke 17:26-30, and 2nd Thess 1:6-10.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#265
#265
watchmen said:
I agree we will not suffer God's wrath, but according to John the baptist, as well as Jesus the wrath of God is the destruction of the wicked by fire that occurs at the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns, at which point we will be removed, but not before the tribulation but at the post trib 2nd coming right before the fire falls.

References: Matthew 3:5 and 12, Luke 17:26-30, and 2nd Thess 1:6-10.
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Perfect example.

Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

What else happened the days of Noah?

Did the righteous endure God's wrath when the world was flooded or were they protected?
 
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watchmen

Banned
#266
Apr 23, 2009
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#266
Definition_Christ said:
Perfect example.

Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

What else happened the days of Noah?

Did the righteous endure God's wrath when the world was flooded or were they protected?
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Exactly the same day Christ returns to destroy the wicked with fire is the same day we will be removed. This isnt before the tribulation, but at the close of it. The tribulation ends with the return of Christ to resurrects the just, catch away those that have survived, and destroy the wicked. This proves the post trib rapture.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#267
#267
watchmen said:
Exactly the same day Christ returns to destroy the wicked with fire is the same day we will be removed. this isnt before the tribulation, but at the close of it. the tribulation ends with the return of Christ to resurrects the just catch away those that have survived, and destroy the wicked. This proves the post trib rapture.
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The tribulation starts to happens 3 1/2 years into the 7 year peace treaty right?
 
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watchmen

Banned
#268
Apr 23, 2009
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#268
Definition_Christ said:
The tribulation starts to happens 3 1/2 years into the 7 year peace treaty right?
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O.k., but Jesus doesn't destroy the wicked with fire until His post trib return, and Luke 17:26-30 tells us that is the same day we will be removed. This passage proves the post trib rapture as well as many other passages. Like I have said before you are too smart to be indoctrinated into the pretrib belief, let God's word speak for itself.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#269
#269
I have not put a lot of time of study into it. I will take your advise and study it out.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#270
Apr 23, 2009
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Definition_Christ said:
I have not put a lot of time of study into it. I will take your advise and study it out.
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Awesiome, I think that is great. We need to know the truth on this subject.

do you see what i am saying about what Luke is saying?
 
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shrone

Guest
#271
#271
watchmen can you show me one verse that says that we who are saved will go through the antichrist rule
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#272
#272
watchmen said:
Awesiome, I think that is great. We need to know the truth on this subject.

do you see what i am saying about what Luke is saying?
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Yes I see your point and your beliefs are very reasonable due to what you have shown me. I just would like to try to study it out and see if I come up with the same results.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#273
Apr 23, 2009
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#273
shrone said:
watchmen can you show me one verse that says that we who are saved will go through the antichrist rule
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Sure,

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 14
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Here are multiple passages that tell us Christians will be here during the reign of the anti christ, and will be persecuted by him during this time. Can you give me one verse that says we wont be.
 
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shrone

Guest
#275
#275
alright lets say that what you say is right....rev 14 says that only one hundred and forty four thousand shall be redeemed after the great tribulation..these are the virgins who were not defiled with women.since you say that we are gona go through the great tribulation...and you are married...which means you are not a virgin and so according to rev14...you are soo gona end up in hell and never redeemed!!...lol
 
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shrone

Guest
#276
#276
im not being mean or anything but watchmen i think you should study more on this subject and i too will study on it to prove you wrong:p
 
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watchmen

Banned
#277
Apr 23, 2009
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#277
shrone said:
im not being mean or anything but watchmen i think you should study more on this subject and i too will study on it to prove you wrong:p
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I have wrote a book on the subject it is call ''The Sword is Coming''
 
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shrone

Guest
#278
#278
watchmen said:
I have wrote a book on the subject it is call ''The Sword is Coming''
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well no matter how many books you wrote on what you believe in...you should do more study on it
 
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Thaddaeus

Banned
#279
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#279
watchmen said:
O.k., but Jesus doesn't destroy the wicked with fire until His post trib return, and Luke 17:26-30 tells us that is the same day we will be removed. This passage proves the post trib rapture as well as many other passages. Like I have said before you are too smart to be indoctrinated into the pretrib belief, let God's word speak for itself.
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I am not accusing you of posting partial scripture text on purpose to misguide people but will advise you to read a little further better yet let me show everyone what you ommitted in your scripture reference. because it would not support your post trib doctrine

Lu 17:31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.Lu 17:32Remember Lot's wife.Lu 17:33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.Lu 17:34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.Lu 17:35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.Lu 17:36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
there is a rapture two women one taken one left, but some are taken and some left there are not all taken on the same day, if you take the rapture here with 1thes. 4:13-18 we learn that the ones that are taken are the ones in Christ, not the ones to be destoried, shame on you for cutting the text off, and not give the whole truth. Pre-trib rature is what these scrpitures support,
 
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shrone

Guest
#280
#280
rapture-1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

second coming- Revelation 19:14
The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

the rapture will take place before the tribulation
1 thess 5:9
rev 3:10

second coming will take place after the antichrist rule that is at the end of tribulation
rev chapters 6-9

in rapture, believers are removed from the earth
1 thess 4:13-17
1 thess 5:9

whereas in seocnd coming the unbelievers are removed from the earth
parable of wheat and the tares - matt 13:24-42
parable of dragnet- matt 13:47:50
days of noah- matt 24:37-41

rapture is a mystery, a hidden event
1 cor 15:50-54

second coming is seen by all, both dead and alive
rev 1:7

rapture can take place at any moment
1 cor 15:50-54
titus 2:13
1 thes 4:14-18

second coming wont happen untill certain events take place
2 thes 2:4
matt 24:15-30
rev chapters 6-18


watchmen i tried to make it simple as possible and yea there ya go...based on the scripture rapture and second comin are 2 different events where rapture takes place first...

if the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation.rev 3:10 and 1 thes 5:9

if the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return.matt 24:4-30

in describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” .jer 30:7—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel.romans 11:17-31

the great tribulation is the wrath of God and we the believers wil not face since we are saved and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ but hey if you wana face it...then go ahead.lol!..but i know that i would be with my Lord in the clouds BEFORE the tribulation takes place...
 
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