RAPTURE SLAUGHTER

nathan3 · Oct 3, 2013

I dont believe in rapture. But there is another problem here . That is thinking there will be death and destruction . God said, Satan can not harm those with the Truth, that seal of God in their forehead. The stinking going on is peoples being deceived into thinking he is God ( II Thess 2 ) .. I'm not going to get into this, this will be my only post here.

But if you teach people, Satan is coming her to kill their flesh body, then your teaching something just as bad as a rapture. Because it will deceive people into Satan's arms. so we must be careful to know just what is written to the letter.

It is written Satan will make it appear as heaven on earth. It is written. If people are expecting ww3, then that is going to deceive them. Its equally as bad as rapture.

nathan3 · Oct 3, 2013

nathan3 said:

I dont believe in rapture. But there is another problem here . That is thinking there will be death and destruction . God said, Satan can not harm those with the Truth, that seal of God in their forehead. The stinking going on is peoples being deceived into thinking he is God ( II Thess 2 ) .. I'm not going to get into this, this will be my only post here.

But if you teach people, Satan is coming her to kill their flesh body, then your teaching something just as bad as a rapture. Because it will deceive people into Satan's arms. so we must be careful to know just what is written to the letter.

It is written Satan will make it appear as heaven on earth. It is written. If people are expecting ww3, then that is going to deceive them. Its equally as bad as rapture.

Stinging I meant ( Revelation 9 )

RedTent · Oct 3, 2013

The last time bible scholars spent this much time deciding what bible prophecy was telling them was before Christ came the first time. They were told what to do, what to look for, just as we are. God didn't tell them exactly how He was going to make everything happen, and God isn't giving us the specifics now. The scholars got it all wrong then, and they probably have it wrong now.

However, God is telling us plainly to prepare by being obedient. God is warning us that if we aren't, there will be judgment. We are to trust Him with our life. It is enough.

J-Kay · Oct 3, 2013

RedTent said:

Hello precious RedTent. So glad to see you ~ I was ready to give my
point of view regarding the topic of Rapture, Pre-trib, Mid-trib and
post-trib. I think we agree it is something only God knows and for my
part, I will not argue one way or the other. I at one time felt it was
Rapture Pre-Trib. Now I confess, I don't have an answer. I am trying
so hard to just keep my focus on Jesus coming after His people, without
acting as if I have the answer. I believe also, with others, should the
Post-Trib be something we have to go through, God will give us the Peace
we will need to overcome the fear of being beheaded. I believe we must
keep our eyes upon Jesus and keep our heart so full of love for Him, we
will gladly give our life up for Him. ( besides the alternative is not good.)
I think we are living in the last days. It is a mater of watching and be
ready. God bless you ~ J-Kay

RaneyMarie · Oct 4, 2013

Whether there is a rapture or not is not the issue I see in all these posts.

We can all agree that the bible says :

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And we can all agree that there are several scriptures that warn us of the end times and to be ready and prepare ourselves. i.e. (Daniel 9; Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 12, 18, 21; 1 Thessalonians; 2 Thessalonians; Revelations) and I am sure there are others to add to this list.

However when we get to the point of interpreting the bible and arguing over what it means we are all on dangerous ground as there are so many different individuals so is there interpretations.

2 Peter 1
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

What we do know and can follow after is that if we believe in God and love Him we are to keep His commandments.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And that if we keep His commandments and obey He will give us a comforter, the Spirit of Truth, that will teach us.

John 14:16-17, 21, 26
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

We are also told how to receive the Holy Ghost:

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I know there are some that will argue with me on this point, but I am not here to argue, I will let the Word of God speak for itself. I do not and will not judge others, I can only bring forth scripture.

Here are some scriptures that come to mind anytime there is a disagreement:

Isaiah 55: 6-9; 11 (KJV)
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
1 Corinthians 2 (KJV)
1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Timothy 2 (KJV)
1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity [love], peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Thank you for taking the time and reading through my post, we all have the same end goal and that is to Love God and be pleasing unto Him. Take Care and God Bless!

RedTent · Oct 4, 2013

RaneyMarie said:

You have done a wonderful job of telling us how to prepare for Christ's return. I like that you bring out that it is through the spirit we are to die to self and live in Christ.

I would like to add that we are not to trust our minds to do this, saying we have the Holy Spirit within us, now we can do no wrong. We can get it wrong, even then. It is true that without that, we just can't live perfect enough to be a true Christian, but without renewing our minds with learning the ways of God we can't do it, either. We have lots of scripture telling us that the law alone is not the way, but we also need to know that without the law to guide our minds we can't get it right, either.

The whole of Romans, chapter 12, 13, 14, and 15 is Paul repeating the ten commandments and asking us to live our talk.

Then we will all be ready for the return of Christ, for when Christ will establish a new world for us.

notuptome · Oct 4, 2013

PlainWord said:

I'm sorry if the truth is offensive to you Roger. I didn't write the Bible and it isn't my plan. I am merely interpreting it the way it was written, not the way you wish it to read. This is a serious matter, that's why I chose a provocative title, so people will read and see how dangerous straying from the Word will be in the latter days.

You probably think the Rapture is an involuntary event where believers are just gathered up by angels. I would agree, that is how the Lord will do it when He returns after the Tribulation/test. But this isn't how it is going down with Satan's deception. You will be visited by a spirit claiming to be from God to take you to Jesus. It will be very convincing. Only if you know the correct order for which "Christ" comes first, can you know this "angel" is not from God.

Many will be deceived. The vast majority of the Christian world will be deceived. Those who think the real messiah comes first will be most susceptible. But those on this site who at least read the word will see that the False One has appeared and they haven't been raptured. You will then know the truth. It will be the "grass", not the "trees" which are entirely deceived.

By the way, Paul does not set the Rapture forth, he specifically warns against it. You want to take 1 Thes 4 as the Rapture but ignoring Paul's clarification of 2 Thes 2 where he emphatically states,

"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God..."

Cherry picking scriptures that you like while ignoring ones that don't fit your viewpoint is a dangerous habit Brother Roger. I am truly getting tired of trying to warn people about what's coming. Rapture believers are just as Paul says they will be a little further on in the same passage:

"9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie..."

It's sad really. This Rapture doctrine had 200 years of being largely uncontested but now that the end times are literally at our doors, the truth needs to be heard. But sadly it is too painful or unbelievable for most to absorb.

Believe what you want. I am not the least bit offended by Gods truth. Your truth, however, is far less palatable. You can accuse me of cherry picking scriptures but in this format I feel it necessary for the sake of brevity. Most folks do not read long posts that often ramble on and on. When you resort to redefining your words you are losing your point.

Paul is not warning against the rapture in 2 Thess 2. Paul is tell us what things will be like when the wicked one will be
revealed. Noting that He who hindereth will be taken out of the way. The He in verse 7 is who? Where is He taken? Lets see what you got.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

PoxEclipse · Oct 4, 2013

Woe to the earth...

Revelation 12
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole [SUP][d][/SUP]world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,

“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even [SUP][e][/SUP]when faced with death. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who [SUP][f][/SUP]dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

[SUP]
13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the [SUP][g][/SUP]presence of the serpent. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent [SUP][h][/SUP]poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. [SUP]16 [/SUP][SUP][i][/SUP]But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon [SUP][j][/SUP]poured out of his mouth. [SUP]17 [/SUP]So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her [SUP][k][/SUP]children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

jb · Oct 4, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

UTTER NONSENSE!

2Thess 2v1-12 states: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The Second Coming of Christ and our gathering to meet Him (and the destruction of the wicked) occurs AFTER the man of lawlessness (Antichrist) is revealed and the rebellion (which occurs during the Great Tribulation) occurs...

iamsoandso · Oct 4, 2013

wars and rumors of wars,earthquakes in divers places,,,,,,every word is plural, as in each word is ended with an (s),,,first the devil will exercise this series of events,and the earth will believe that he(the devil) is in fact the lord(Christ)in his second coming,,,,,,,

then the second set of wars and rumors of wars,earthquakes in divers places,ect.,,,,,,,,will take place and the lord will come,,,

notuptome · Oct 4, 2013

jb said:

UTTER NONSENSE!

2Thess 2v1-12 states: "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The Second Coming of Christ and our gathering to meet Him (and the destruction of the wicked) occurs AFTER the man of lawlessness (Antichrist) is revealed and the rebellion (which occurs during the Great Tribulation) occurs...

Ok then...it is the church that is light and witness for Christ in this world. When the church is gone there is nothing to hinder the appearance of the lawless one. It is true that the Lord returns to the earth after these things but the church is already gone. Christ's second advent is for Israel not for the church. Christ returns to Jerusalem. The rapture is not the second advent of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

jb · Oct 4, 2013

notuptome said:

Roger, dear boy, READ the Scripture, "for that day", what day?

The day of the Lord's appearing and OUR (that is the Church's, ie the resurrection AND rapture, 1Cor 15v50-56, 1Thess 4v13-18, Rev 11v15-19) gathering unto Him, is the SAME day, NOT separated by three and a half years!

It beggars belief that you can twist 2Thess 2v1-12 to somehow support a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture.

Christ's Second Coming is for BOTH the Church and Israel! Dan 12v2, Rev 11v15-19.

The Jews that are alive and have been scattered throughout the world are brought back to Israel/jerusalem by the Gentiles as an offering to the Lord. Isaiah 66v19, 20, Luke 21v20-24.

notuptome · Oct 4, 2013

jb said:

No secret about it. The church is gone when the Lord comes as He left in the clouds. 2 Thess 2:7 Some one is removed before the man of sin is revealed. That some one is key to you understanding what Paul is teaching in this passage. The church is not present in Rev 11.

I read just fine it's your dogma on this subject that need work. Your last paragraph would be seen by many as laughable.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

mpaper345 · Oct 4, 2013

The 144,000 people on earth are Jewish people.

God said that He would restore the kingdom back to Israel after they have borne their shame for rejecting the truth.

God said that He is going to make a full end of all Gentile nations but He would not make a full end of Israel athough they would be punished in part.

The disciples knew that God would one day restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews and on the Mount of Olives they asked Jesus when it would happen and Jesus told them do not worry about because the Father will do it in due time but worry about preaching the Gospel.

The Bible says that all Israel shall be saved and this means physically as all Gentile nations fall and Israel will be the kingdom during the reign of Christ on earth.

The 144,000 are Jewish people as it also states their tribes ,12,000 from each tribe except for Dan who was replaced by Manasseh and that could be because Dan introduced Israel to idolatry.

God will send the Jews 2 witnesses to the Jews to turn them to Christ during three and one half years of the tribulation.

The 144,000 are Jews and Israel will be the only kingdom in the reign of Christ on earth that will be both Jew and Gentile ruling with Jesus on earth for 1000 years.

CoooCaw · Oct 4, 2013

I agree there is a problem with people sitting on their loathsome spotted behinds just waiting to be raptured. I wonder if they know what they should be about instead.

crossnote said:

PlainWord · Oct 7, 2013

notuptome said:

This is a clear reference to Michael the Archangel who is restraining Satan in heaven. Rev 12:7-9. See also Daniel 10:21 and 12:1. Many think it is the Holy Spirit who departs with the Church for the Rapture. First, nowhere is that told. Second, why would the HS be needed in heaven with God and Christ up there already? Are we to think God would remove the last of His Trinity giving his Tribulation saints no comfort at all? God is long suffering wishing that none should perish. He certainly is not going to Rapture away His church and remove His Holy Spirit and allow Satan free and unfettered influence on earth?

This passage totally destroys the Rapture lie. Now I challenge you Roger to explain it away.

2 Thes 1:

[SUP]4 "[/SUP]so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, [SUP]5 [/SUP]which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; [SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[SUP][a][/SUP] because our testimony among you was believed."

You see clearly here that the rest does not come until the Second Coming which is the Day of Vengeance. The Thessalonians ARE PART OF THE CHURCH OF BELIEVERS. THEY ARE NOT TRIBULATION SAINTS. If there was a Rapture, why would they have to wait for the Day of the Lord????

jb · Oct 7, 2013

notuptome said:

You are simply just unteachable and certainly fulfill Matt 13v14,15!

By teaching a pre-tribulation secret advent and rapture you are adding something to the Book of Revelation that is NOT there, completely ignoring the Lord's strong warning in Rev 22v18,19.

If, by your individual teaching of this erroneous doctrine, a Christian's faith is over-thrown so that they backslide and go into apostasy during the Great Tribulation, the Lord WILL certainly require it off you!

Ugly · Oct 7, 2013

You just aren't listening!
Nuh uh, YOU aren't listening!
Noo, YOU aren't listening!
No way man, you just refuse to hear!
I hear fine, you just don't want to hear what i'm saying!
I'm right!
No I'M right!

john832 · Oct 7, 2013

jb said:

The church is surely here...

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Do you Jews today keep the Commandments? More to the point, do they have the Testimony of Jesus Christ? Who else would have this but the church.

What the Bible teaches is a flight to a place of safety by the church...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This wilderness cannot be a reference to heaven...

wilderness:

G2048
ἔρημος
erēmos
er'-ay-mos
Of uncertain affinity; lonesome, that is, (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, G5561 being implied): - desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

If this were a "rapture", an earthquake (or some seismic activity) would not be of help to spirits being wafted to heaven.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Some of the woman are not taken to this place. The remainder or remnant as seen above are not the Jews, they are the remnant of the woman. By process of elimination, this must be the church.

notuptome · Oct 7, 2013

PlainWord said:

Well I do not need to explain anything away. One does not explain away scripture but must understand it in regard to the rest of scripture as a whole. Your understanding of this subject is interesting but far from what God intended. Archangels are not hindering Satan here on the earth. The Holy Spirit present in the church is holding back Satan's revelation of his plan to destroy Israel. If Satan revealed the man of sin now the church would cry out against him and Israel would not enter into a covenant with him for peace. Israel not the church will go through the great tribulation. Those who live through the tribulation will be saved because they will see Messiah and believe on Him. That and the 144,000 Jews preaching the coming of Messiah for which they will be persecuted and killed during the great tribulation period.

Believers are at rest in Christ. He is our peace and our hope of eternal life. The closer you get to Christ the more peaceful your attitude will become.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

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