RAPTURE SLAUGHTER

[Katy-follower]

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [SUP]12 [/SUP]that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I believe the delusion that the Lord will send is the pre-rapture theory. Why because they would not believe the truth that they will go through The Tribulation. And since they will believe this lie of pre-trip they will be damned.
unrighteousness is the opposite of what is right.

Noo. Context please. Read the whole chapter. You can't use one verse and make it fit with what you choose.

Who is God really talking about here?.........

2 Thess 2:9-12: "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness"

This kind of reminds me of that scripture that speaks of God handing people over to the lusts of their hearts, those who worship the creature and not the Creator.

We're told that these deceptions will be so believable that "if possible" it would deceive even the elect, but no believer will be deceived by it, since believers have the wisdom of God and not the wisdom of the world. The lost do not have the helmet to protect their heads so are open to deception and many will perish because they didn't receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. They will believe the lie.

1 Cor 1:18-19: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

 

[john832]

Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Matthew 27:25 exactly what is gonna happen they are guilty of murdering the messiah so they have to be murdered back during the tribulation all the 144 000​

And yet we read...

Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luk 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Christ's own words are that the Gentiles would put Him to death (Gentiles is the antecedent of they in v33).

 

[notuptome]

And yet we read...

Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luk 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Christ's own words are that the Gentiles would put Him to death (Gentiles is the antecedent of they in v33).

Yet it was His own that delivered Him to the Gentiles, Romans, that He might be crucified. They did not drive the nails into His flesh but they manipulated the Romans to do their work for them. They would have gladly done it but they lacked the authority. God, of course, knew this long before the event actually.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[john832]

Yet it was His own that delivered Him to the Gentiles, Romans, that He might be crucified. They did not drive the nails into His flesh but they manipulated the Romans to do their work for them. They would have gladly done it but they lacked the authority. God, of course, knew this long before the event actually.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

In reality, all who have ever lived are guilty. It is by His death that our sins have been atoned for. You and I are guilty of His death...

 

[overcomer2]

at
The holy spirit is the spirit of truth and christ which leads into all truth idk what overcome2 was getting at

Oops sorry Josh321 from Barbados, was not trying to step on your toes. Making a point my husband and I disagree about tribulation/pretrib. He tends to say this statement that is all. This was nothing personal toward you.

 

[notuptome]

In reality, all who have ever lived are guilty. It is by His death that our sins have been atoned for. You and I are guilty of His death...

Part of the great spectacle of Christ's death. The Lamb of God dying for the sins of the world. Sobering thought when we read Hebrews 10:28-31 treading under foot the blood of Christ, doing despite to the Spirit of grace. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

For the cause of Christ
roger

 

[Hizikyah]

Part of the great spectacle of Christ's death. The Lamb of God dying for the sins of the world. Sobering thought when we read Hebrews 10:28-31 treading under foot the blood of Christ, doing despite to the Spirit of grace. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

For the cause of Christ
roger

Hebrews 10:26-30
"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."

 

[jb]

...The church is not present in Rev 11...

Ask yourself, "who is Revelation chapter 11 written to"?

It is CERTAINLY NOT written to the Jew (either believing or unbelieving), for they simply would not read it and indeed during the Great Tribulation most off them follow Antichrist, two thirds of them being destroyed at Christ's Second Coming for doing so! Zech 13v8, Rev 13v8

It was written to the Church, ie the Body of Christ, Rev 1v1-9, hence why the Christian needs the information of Rev chapter 11 (to be prepared for the Great Tribulation) for the Church IS present upon earth during the Great Tribulation!

The Church is CERTAINLY present in Rev 11!

The 7th Trumpet (ie the LAST Trumpet, Rev 11v15-19, for there are no more mentioned in the Book of Revelation) is the 'last trumpet' in 1Cor 15v52 where Paul informs us that "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The "We" of 1Cor 15v51,52 is speaking of CHRISTIANS, ie the Body of Christ and is the same as "the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great" of Rev 11v18!

If teaching meant threat and innuendo you would have it down pat.

It is quite plain that you think it is a very light thing to teach lies (and that is what a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture is), hence why I wrote with such a strong warning, I strongly suggest that you go back to the Sriptures and earnestly seek the Lord Jesus in prayer for light on His Secong Coming and our gathering together unto Him! 2Thess 2v1-12, James 3v1, 1Peter 1v10-12.

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[john832]

Ask yourself, "who is Revelation chapter 11 written to"?

I agree, in that we read this...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

At this time in history, God was dealing with the church, not national Israel. Israel was not "His servants" at this time.

It is CERTAINLY NOT written to the Jew (either believing or unbelieving), for they simply would not read it and indeed during the Great Tribulation most off them follow Antichrist, two thirds of them being destroyed at Christ's Second Coming for doing so! Zech 13v8, Rev 13v8

It was written to the Church, ie the Body of Christ, Rev 1v1-9, hence why the Christian needs the information of Rev chapter 11 (to be prepared for the Great Tribulation) for the Church IS present upon earth during the Great Tribulation!

The Church is CERTAINLY present in Rev 11!

The 7th Trumpet (ie the LAST Trumpet, Rev 11v15-19, for there are no more mentioned in the Book of Revelation) is the 'last trumpet' in 1Cor 15v52 where Paul informs us that "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The "We" of 1Cor 15v51,52 is speaking of CHRISTIANS, ie the Body of Christ and is the same as "the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great" of Rev 11v18!



It is quite plain that you think it is a very light thing to teach lies (and that is what a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture is), hence why I wrote with such a strong warning, I strongly suggest that you go back to the Sriptures and earnestly seek the Lord Jesus in prayer for light on His Secong Coming and our gathering together unto Him! 2Thess 2v1-12, James 3v1, 1Peter 1v10-12.

Yahweh Shalom...

Revelation is a book that is to be taken very seriously...

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

(In actuality, I believe it could successfully be argued the canon of the Bible is referred to here, but I won't make such a dogmatic statement.)

 

[notuptome]

Ask yourself, "who is Revelation chapter 11 written to"?

It is CERTAINLY NOT written to the Jew (either believing or unbelieving), for they simply would not read it and indeed during the Great Tribulation most off them follow Antichrist, two thirds of them being destroyed at Christ's Second Coming for doing so! Zech 13v8, Rev 13v8

It was written to the Church, ie the Body of Christ, Rev 1v1-9, hence why the Christian needs the information of Rev chapter 11 (to be prepared for the Great Tribulation) for the Church IS present upon earth during the Great Tribulation!

The Church is CERTAINLY present in Rev 11!

The 7th Trumpet (ie the LAST Trumpet, Rev 11v15-19, for there are no more mentioned in the Book of Revelation) is the 'last trumpet' in 1Cor 15v52 where Paul informs us that "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The "We" of 1Cor 15v51,52 is speaking of CHRISTIANS, ie the Body of Christ and is the same as "the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great" of Rev 11v18!



It is quite plain that you think it is a very light thing to teach lies (and that is what a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture is), hence why I wrote with such a strong warning, I strongly suggest that you go back to the Sriptures and earnestly seek the Lord Jesus in prayer for light on His Secong Coming and our gathering together unto Him! 2Thess 2v1-12, James 3v1, 1Peter 1v10-12.

Yahweh Shalom...

Let him who has ears hear. God speaks it is up to men to hear or to stop up their ears. God still speaks and His word endures without change for all of eternity. Gods sheep hear the goats will not heed. It is a silly notion to say that God did not write it to people who would not hear it. God sent His Son to people who rejected Him.

I will be with Christ when He returns to earth to rescue Israel from extermination. I will either have died and gone into His presence of I will be caught up with Him with the rest of the church. You can rest assured that I will be a first hand witness of the great day. Which side are you going to be on?

For the cause of Christ.
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I agree, in that we read this...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

At this time in history, God was dealing with the church, not national Israel. Israel was not "His servants" at this time.



Revelation is a book that is to be taken very seriously...

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

(In actuality, I believe it could successfully be argued the canon of the Bible is referred to here, but I won't make such a dogmatic statement.)

Israel only ever sees itself as servant. The NT Christian sees himself as child of God. NT believers have a much preferred relationship with God through Christ.

Too many folks go into Revelation without a sound salvation basis. Man cannot know the things written there without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So many claim to be authorities on Revelation but lack the authority to have the knowledge.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PlainWord]

If teaching meant threat and innuendo you would have it down pat.

The tribulation is judgment upon Israel not the church. Do you understand that the church is not Israel and Israel is not the church? The church does not replace Israel in prophecy and while some of Israel will get saved, a remnant, and be part of the church not all until Christ returns in power and glory.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The Tribulation isn't judgment upon anyone until the end, then it will be judgment on the Beast and his kingdom. OMG, read Mat 24:21-28. It is the temptation of Satan and the slaughter of the Christians who went out after him when the Lord warns against it and repeated tells us to be patient and wait for him. Here, I'll post the scripture so you don't have to look it up:

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Do you see anything remotely resembling a judgment in the above? This is Christ doing the talking. There are no mountains being cast into the sea, with oceans and rivers turning to blood and no sky falling. If you don't understand that the Tribulation is a TEST or TEMPTATION to see who will follow the False One and who has been reading and understanding the Bible to know which "Christ" comes first, then there's a good chance you will be deceived.

Read also Rev 3:10. John confirms it is a test and the whole world will be tested. Nobody is flying off to heaven. I'm trying to save your life Roger and anyone else who fell for this Pre-Trib Rapture nonsense.

 

[Josh321]

And yet we read...

Luk 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luk 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Christ's own words are that the Gentiles would put Him to death (Gentiles is the antecedent of they in v33).

his hands was in the Jews.. they said put him to death and let barrabas go.. it's in the bible.

 

[PlainWord]

THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. PLEASE READ THIS!!!

The world is exactly 33.32% Christian today!! What do most of the trumpets deal with??? One third!! That means the Christian population is the subject of these trumpets and it is Satan behind them. I don't have all of the trumpet's symbolism translated yet but I have enough done to know that they deal with deception of Christians, the truth of the Lord being diminished and the Word not being taught. We are in these early trumpets already. The Bowls deal with the other 2/3rds or DOUBLE what the Harlot has poured out against the Saints.

Rev 18:6: Render to her just as she rendered to you,and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

If the church is gone, the math doesn't work. Study the Bowls. They are being poured out on ALL who worship the Beast, ALL the seas, ALL the fresh waters, ALL the light. The Trumpets apply to only the third part of these. 1/3 + 2/3 = ALL.

To be double (2/3), there must be 1/3 on earth to experience what the Harlot does to the Saints. How can the Beast go make war against the Saints - and defeat them- if they are in heaven?? He can't. Satan can never defeat the Saints unless God allows it. God would never allow it if the Saints were being faithful to Him. But if the Saints were deceived into worshiping the False One and believing the LIE, then God would allow it, Isa 65.

 

[notuptome]

The Tribulation isn't judgment upon anyone until the end, then it will be judgment on the Beast and his kingdom. OMG, read Mat 24:21-28. It is the temptation of Satan and the slaughter of the Christians who went out after him when the Lord warns against it and repeated tells us to be patient and wait for him. Here, I'll post the scripture so you don't have to look it up:

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

Do you see anything remotely resembling a judgment in the above? This is Christ doing the talking. There are no mountains being cast into the sea, with oceans and rivers turning to blood and no sky falling. If you don't understand that the Tribulation is a TEST or TEMPTATION to see who will follow the False One and who has been reading and understanding the Bible to know which "Christ" comes first, then there's a good chance you will be deceived.

Read also Rev 3:10. John confirms it is a test and the whole world will be tested. Nobody is flying off to heaven. I'm trying to save your life Roger and anyone else who fell for this Pre-Trib Rapture nonsense.

Really? Like all that is going on in the great tribulation is blessing. Get real. The great tribulation is God judging apostate Israel and preparing the way for Christ to return.

You cannot save anyone including yourself. Only Jesus can save. You really seem spooked about Christ coming and gathering up the church before the tribulation. One can only wonder why. We should be looking forward to that day. Paul wanted to be with the Lord but he said it was needful for him to tarry and minister.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. PLEASE READ THIS!!!

The world is exactly 33.32% Christian today!! What do most of the trumpets deal with??? One third!! That means the Christian population is the subject of these trumpets and it is Satan behind them. I don't have all of the trumpet's symbolism translated yet but I have enough done to know that they deal with deception of Christians, the truth of the Lord being diminished and the Word not being taught. We are in these early trumpets already. The Bowls deal with the other 2/3rds or DOUBLE what the Harlot has poured out against the Saints.

Rev 18:6: Render to her just as she rendered to you,and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

If the church is gone, the math doesn't work. Study the Bowls. They are being poured out on ALL who worship the Beast, ALL the seas, ALL the fresh waters, ALL the light. The Trumpets apply to only the third part of these. 1/3 + 2/3 = ALL.

To be double (2/3), there must be 1/3 on earth to experience what the Harlot does to the Saints. How can the Beast go make war against the Saints - and defeat them- if they are in heaven?? He can't. Satan can never defeat the Saints unless God allows it. God would never allow it if the Saints were being faithful to Him. But if the Saints were deceived into worshiping the False One and believing the LIE, then God would allow it, Isa 65.

More silliness. The world would not be in the condition it is in if 33.32% of the people were Christian. Not even close to that here in the states. Pastors who participated in a poll stated that they thought that only 10% of those who sat in the pews were real born again Christians. These were pastors from bible preaching churches or that is how they described themselves. I suggest that in the denominational churches it is far less than even 10%.

Christian in name only you may reach 33.32% but not the genuine article. The fields truly are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CoooCaw]

wow the fruitcakes have just come out of the woodwork

 

[Josh321]

i don't even think it's more than 10% people claim to be christians but have no idea what born again means or even experience it and yet claim they have been born again, i've seen this for myself people think that born again is joining a church and confessing they are a sinner infront of the church and BAM they born again...very sad indeed, i saw another one in an adventist church when they were calling people to be save and a woman went up and said she ready to be save, then they started asking her questions like it's a trial or something then she admitted she was a sinner, then they ask her will you accept christ today? and she said yes and everyone was like welcome to the family of christ, i stood there and shake my head... others get a sensation and think they are born again, i've seen people just get a burst of energy and ran up and down and think that is it, the church in the world is such a deception, so true what the bible says Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof

 

[PlainWord]

Really? Like all that is going on in the great tribulation is blessing. Get real. The great tribulation is God judging apostate Israel and preparing the way for Christ to return.

You cannot save anyone including yourself. Only Jesus can save. You really seem spooked about Christ coming and gathering up the church before the tribulation. One can only wonder why. We should be looking forward to that day. Paul wanted to be with the Lord but he said it was needful for him to tarry and minister.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

At least you got one thing right. Did you ever read 2 Thes 2? Pretty clear when the Gathering and return of the Lord will take place and there was no mention of 2 gathers and 2 returns. Just trying to help you out.

 

[PlainWord]

More silliness. The world would not be in the condition it is in if 33.32% of the people were Christian. Not even close to that here in the states. Pastors who participated in a poll stated that they thought that only 10% of those who sat in the pews were real born again Christians. These were pastors from bible preaching churches or that is how they described themselves. I suggest that in the denominational churches it is far less than even 10%.

Christian in name only you may reach 33.32% but not the genuine article. The fields truly are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Those who call themselves Christians are 33.32%. I can't find the original chart I quoted before.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 5"]Size of Major Religious Groups, 2012[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Religion[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Percent[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Christian[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]31.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Muslim[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]23.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Unaffiliated[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]16.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Hindu[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]15.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Buddhist *[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]7.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Folk[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]5.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Other[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]0.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Jewish[/TD]
[TD]  
[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: right"]0.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Pew Research Center, 2012[SUP][2][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So many of these so called Christians will be deceived. I doubt you will Roger because when you see the Antichrist in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God, you will say OOPS and not go worship him.

But we know from the 1st trumpet that 1/3 of even the knowledgeable Christians will be fooled while all of the ignorant will.