Rapture

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#21
Look again at the question the disciples ask Jesus Christ at Matthew 24:3,
Tell us, when will these things be, (these words refer bact to vs2) then the disciples ask, "and what will be th3e sing of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE or "THE COMPLETION OF THE WORLD."
What we find in the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21) is a summation of all the major developments which will take place on earth from 70 AD to the Second Coming of Christ (which would indeed be the end of the age but not the end of the world). This also corresponds to the seven seals of Revelation in outline.

At this time the apostles were not clear about the Church consisting of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body, neither had Paul received the revelation about the *mystery* of the Church or the Rapture. Indeed Peter had to be seriously convinced about Gentiles receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it was only just before the crucifixion that Christ first spoke about the Rapture.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#22
What we find in the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21) is a summation of all the major developments which will take place on earth from 70 AD to the Second Coming of Christ (which would indeed be the end of the age but not the end of the world). This also corresponds to the seven seals of Revelation in outline.

At this time the apostles were not clear about the Church consisting of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body, neither had Paul received the revelation about the *mystery* of the Church or the Rapture. Indeed Peter had to be seriously convinced about Gentiles receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it was only just before the crucifixion that Christ first spoke about the Rapture.
And what was Jesus talking about here?:

Mat 24: 40 Two men will be in the field: onewill be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#23
What we find in the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21) is a summation of all the major developments which will take place on earth from 70 AD to the Second Coming of Christ (which would indeed be the end of the age but not the end of the world). This also corresponds to the seven seals of Revelation in outline.

At this time the apostles were not clear about the Church consisting of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body, neither had Paul received the revelation about the *mystery* of the Church or the Rapture. Indeed Peter had to be seriously convinced about Gentiles receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it was only just before the crucifixion that Christ first spoke about the Rapture.
Correct. (y)

At the time of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus had already spoken with His disciples about "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" in Matt13:30,39,40,49-50 (when, it says, the angels will REAP), and that is the basis of their question(s) in Matt24:3 (which He is answering in the rest of the two chapters, 24-25, the Olivet Discourse). As of that moment, He had not yet spoken of anything related to our Rapture (in the air). The topic He is covering in the Olivet Discourse is His Second Coming to the earth, and the circumstances surrounding THAT (i.e. who will enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom upon His "return" there, per context).
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#26
And here is something else to think about and never made any sense to me. According to the pre-trib rapture (and years and years ago I believed in this pre-trib rapture business.). Anyway after were raptured we will be having the Lambs supper at Revelation 19:6-9. It does not make sense that we will all be rejoicing and eating while all hell is breaking loose here on earth. :eek:
In every passage that refers to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (i.e. the "meal" aka the "shall sit down [G347 - implying, at a meal, around a table]") it is referring to the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (or at the very least, its inauguration), that is, upon His "RETURN" to the earth (and we [the Church which is His body] returning "WITH [G4862-syn, denoting UNION] Him").

This is the distinction between Rev19:7 (re: the "bride/wife [singular]" pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself [which is "aorist" at that time]) and Rev19:9 (re: "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" which is NOT "aorist, but is where He is [as an already-wed Bridegroom] heading down TO... i.e. the earthly MK="the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" where the "guests [plural]" and the "virgins[plural]/bridesmaids [plural]," etc, come into view).

The "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the MK] does not commence until His "RETURN" to the earth (see Luke 12:36-37,38,40, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal)
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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#27
What we find in the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21) is a summation of all the major developments which will take place on earth from 70 AD to the Second Coming of Christ (which would indeed be the end of the age but not the end of the world). This also corresponds to the seven seals of Revelation in outline.

At this time the apostles were not clear about the Church consisting of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body, neither had Paul received the revelation about the *mystery* of the Church or the Rapture. Indeed Peter had to be seriously convinced about Gentiles receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. And it was only just before the crucifixion that Christ first spoke about the Rapture.
The following is what Greek Scholar A.T Robertson said about Matthew 24:3 and he says I think three times, "the end of the world."

Verse 3
As he sat (κατημενου — kathēmenou). Genitive absolute. Picture of Jesus sitting on the Mount of Olives looking down on Jerusalem and the temple which he had just left. After the climb up the mountain four of the disciples (Peter, James, John, Andrew) come to Jesus with the problem raised by his solemn words. They ask these questions about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, his own second coming (παρουσια — parousia presence, common in the papyri for the visit of the emperor), and the end of the world. Did they think that they were all to take place simultaneously? There is no way to answer. At any rate Jesus treats all three in this great eschatological discourse, the most difficult problem in the Synoptic Gospels. Many theories are advanced that impugn the knowledge of Jesus or of the writers or of both. It is sufficient for our purpose to think of Jesus as using the destruction of the temple and of Jerusalem which did happen in that generation in a.d. 70, as also a symbol of his own second coming and of the end of the world (συντελειας του αιωνος — sunteleias tou aiōnos) or consummation of the age. In a painting the artist by skilful perspective may give on the same surface the inside of a room, the fields outside the window, and the sky far beyond. Certainly in this discourse Jesus blends in apocalyptic language the background of his death on the cross, the coming destruction of Jerusalem, his own second coming and the end of the world. He now touches one, now the other. It is not easy for us to separate clearly the various items. It is enough if we get the picture as a whole as it is here drawn with its lessons of warning to be ready for his coming and the end. The destruction of Jerusalem came as he foretold. There are some who would date the Synoptic Gospels after a.d. 70 in order to avoid the predictive element involved in the earlier date. But that is to limit the fore-knowledge of Jesus to a merely human basis. The word παρουσια — parousia occurs in this chapter alone (Matthew 24:3, Matthew 24:27, Matthew 24:37, Matthew 24:39) in the Gospels, but often in the Epistles, either of presence as opposed to absence (Philemon 2:12) or the second coming of Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:1). And here's a "PS:" You said, "And it was only just before the crucifixion that Christ first spoke about the Rapture." Can you please provide the reference/verses for this statement? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#28
It is only in Luke 21:12-24a (also part of the Olivet Discourse) that Jesus addresses the events of 70ad. [v.24b follows on from there.]

All of the rest of the Olivet Discourse addresses His Second Coming to the earth [FOR the earthly MK] and the brief time period [7-yrs] leading UP TO THAT (it is not covering the subject of our Rapture, at all).

We can detect the SEQUENCE when we note that Matt24:4-8 ("the beginning of birth pangs") is what Luk21:8-11 is covering (and that these, being the same thing, also correlate with the Seals of Revelation 6, and that Revelation 1:1 says "things which must come to pass [4:1 also (re: FUTURE)] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [not events over the course of some 2000 years]).

Luk21:12 clearly starts out by saying, "But BEFORE all these things..." (that is, BEFORE all the "beginning of birth pangs" [i.e. the SEALS], BEFORE THAT, the events of 70ad must occur).

In this, we see the SEQUENCE of events spelled out. (None of these passages [Olivet Discourse in its entirety], however, are covering the subject of our Rapture.)
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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#29
Correct. (y)

At the time of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus had already spoken with His disciples about "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" in Matt13:30,39,40,49-50 (when, it says, the angels will REAP), and that is the basis of their question(s) in Matt24:3 (which He is answering in the rest of the two chapters, 24-25, the Olivet Discourse). As of that moment, He had not yet spoken of anything related to our Rapture (in the air). The topic He is covering in the Olivet Discourse is His Second Coming to the earth, and the circumstances surrounding THAT (i.e. who will enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom upon His "return" there, per context).
You said this: "He had not yet spoken of anything related to our Rapture (in the air)." Well if that's the case, where did Jesus "EVER" speak about "our" (your word) rapture? Or to put it another way since the disciples specifically ask Him at Matthew 24:3, "what will be the sign of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE?" The word "age" can be translated "world" according to Greek Scholar A.T.Robertson. I do not see any "wiggle" room in the question they are asking Jesus. In short, you can't just "assume" there will be a rapture so why did Jesus not mention it? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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#30
There will be no pre/mid/post trib rapture and even rapture as being described here is not going to happen at all. There will be no such thing as Christ second coming either, for Christ has always been coming as the Holy spirit since the disciples time- the reason He told them they won't finish moving through all the towns in Jerusalem before He comes back.

Mass rapture is a lie, two or three people surviving a car crush is their rapture, it happens every day.
No one is leaving this earth but the kingdom of God will rule over this earth forever and ever. The earth itself will change but believers will still be here.
I have to ask you this noose, what planet are your from? I mean where do you come up with this stuff that is in direct contradiction of what Jesus said at Matthew 24. Who is teaching you this, and what church do you attend that agrees with what your saying? Actually, I'll bet you don't even attend a church. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#31
Hey! JP... PTL!
Now regarding the evil one's revealing of himself to the world, we see in 2 Thes 2:3-8 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."

Matt 16:16-19 "And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."That this includes all of the body of Christ and not just Peter is seen in Matt 18:18,19 " Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye bind upon the earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatsoever ye loose upon the earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."

The Church has authority over all the power of the enemy and the Holy Spirit ministers judgment to the evil spirits that are in the world. So that between the Church and the Holy Spirit; the evil one will be hindered from revealing himself to the world until its time for the abomination of desolation, which will occur during the middle of the great tribulation. Then the Church will be caught up into the air, to be with the Lord Jesus; and then the evil one will reveal himself as God to the world.

Maranatha!
Good post gif1! However, I would have to disagree with the One who is restraining being taken out of the way at the setting up of the abomination which takes place in the middle of the seven years. The antichrist will been revealed at the beginning of the seven years when he establishes his seven year covenant. Otherwise, you would have the church going through the seals and most of the trumpets, which are the wrath of God and which believers are not appointed to suffer - Rom.5:9, I Thes.1:10, 5:9 and Rev.3:10. Surely because of scripture, when the antichrist makes his seven year covenant, those who come to Christ at that time will know who he is because of that covenant.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#32
I have to ask you this noose, what planet are your from? I mean where do you come up with this stuff that is in direct contradiction of what Jesus said at Matthew 24. Who is teaching you this, and what church do you attend that agrees with what your saying? Actually, I'll bet you don't even attend a church. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Good day Bluto!

I had to chuckle when I read your post to Noose. For it was for his strange false teachings that I put him on ignore several months ago. His teachings are senseless and he does not listen to plain scriptural reasoning.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#33
You said this: "He had not yet spoken of anything related to our Rapture (in the air)." Well if that's the case, where did Jesus "EVER" speak about "our" (your word) rapture? Or to put it another way since the disciples specifically ask Him at Matthew 24:3, "what will be the sign of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE?" The word "age" can be translated "world" according to Greek Scholar A.T.Robertson. I do not see any "wiggle" room in the question they are asking Jesus. In short, you can't just "assume" there will be a rapture so why did Jesus not mention it? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I would be careful. Christ does not give the disciples an direct answer for a sign (singular) as a wonder (faith issue) as something required before a person believed .

Signs are for those who do not beleive, prophecy .

Prophecy, Christ is coming as a thief in the night.

Christ says its an evil generation (natural man) that seeks after a sign before they will beleive . They have "no faith" that alone comes from hearing God. Called a froward nation as an evil generation, the generation of Adam

And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.Deuteronomy 32:20
.
The signs were signs of observeation that followed after the events or during. They provided no wonder which speaks again of the faith principle .

Its signs and wonders or sign with wonders ? Many eager to walk by sight see it all as one thing and do not make the distinction
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#34
Good post gif1! However, I would have to disagree with the One who is restraining being taken out of the way at the setting up of the abomination which takes place in the middle of the seven years. The antichrist will been revealed at the beginning of the seven years when he establishes his seven year covenant. Otherwise, you would have the church going through the seals and most of the trumpets, which are the wrath of God and which believers are not appointed to suffer - Rom.5:9, I Thes.1:10, 5:9 and Rev.3:10. Surely because of scripture, when the antichrist makes his seven year covenant, those who come to Christ at that time will know who he is because of that covenant.

The anti Christ, another mediator has been revealed they were already there when the scripture was written . The anti-christs as another mediator other than Christ alone are reckoned as the unbelieving Jew. one group of antichrists .

The unbelieving Jew (no faith) are still waiting for him to come the "one time" in the flesh as a one time outward demonstration of the Spirit of Christ not seen. 2 Corinthians 5:16 informs he will not come as that seen any more forever more. God is not a man as us. One demonstration was the promise.

No coming in the flesh twice or three time as some say.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The literalist is looking to walk by sight as some beast coming with horns and multiple heads before they will believe .

We can view the spirit of the anti Christ Satan working in the heart of Peter making things of God without effect. peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man seen today that would not be forgivable against the Holy Spirit, not seen

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not "the things that be of God", but "those that be of men" Mathew 16:22-23

Twice to secure the truth it is revealed.

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy "shall be" forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost "shall not be forgiven" unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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#35
Good post gif1! However, I would have to disagree with the One who is restraining being taken out of the way at the setting up of the abomination which takes place in the middle of the seven years. The antichrist will been revealed at the beginning of the seven years when he establishes his seven year covenant. Otherwise, you would have the church going through the seals and most of the trumpets, which are the wrath of God and which believers are not appointed to suffer - Rom.5:9, I Thes.1:10, 5:9 and Rev.3:10. Surely because of scripture, when the antichrist makes his seven year covenant, those who come to Christ at that time will know who he is because of that covenant.
Hey! Ahwatukee... PTL! (btw is you nick an Indian word?)

In the following scriptures, I can see what you mean; but you know how we all resist changing our long held opinions; as well we should, so as not to be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine!

Rom 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
1 Thes 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
1 Thes 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

BUT ([email protected] for resisting change), the wrath to come is referring to after the Millennium.

2 Pet 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

1 Pet 4:17,18 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God."

Noah was not removed from the earth before the Lord's judgment, but rather, he was shut up into the ark before the rain began to fall.

For a covenant to be in effect, there must, of necessity, be the death of the testator.

Maranatha!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#36
I have to ask you this noose, what planet are your from? I mean where do you come up with this stuff that is in direct contradiction of what Jesus said at Matthew 24. Who is teaching you this, and what church do you attend that agrees with what your saying? Actually, I'll bet you don't even attend a church. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I'm from planet Earth and i don't think i contradict the scriptures in any way, in fact, i'm realistic to the scripture.

There's no such thing as second coming of Christ and if there was, it happened in the 1st century:

Matt 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself, Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Matt 10:22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. 23When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matt 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in Hiskingdom.”

John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

John 16:16 Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”

You can choose to explain away these verses but they will always be against you. The best way to explain Jesus's coming is "He is and was and is to come the Almighty" meaning that He is always coming since the disciples time to date and there's no particular date/time in the future that anyone should wait. The only thing that people wait for in the future is end of the age and even that is not imminent- read your bible.

There will be no rapture either. This is another doctrine based on misunderstanding scripture aimed at putting anxiety in men's hearts. Precious in the eyes of God is the death of a saint-
Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of His saints.

So don't ever think you are special than the disciples who were murdered or any other Christian being slaughtered by ISIS. Tribulation is now and your rapture is near, at the door, but rapture is only for those who know God fully,the 144k faithful believers. They are not going to leave this earth.

This is Jesus's prayer for believers:


John 17: 14 I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.

This is the true meaning of rapture.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#37
... I would have to disagree with the One who is restraining being taken out of the way at the setting up of the abomination which takes place in the middle of the seven years. The antichrist will been revealed at the beginning of the seven years when...
Agreed! (y)

2Th2 is covering the entire 7 yr period:

--the BEGINNING ("whose coming [advent/arrival/presence]" v.9 = Dan27a[26] "for ONE WEEK [seven yrs]"--this is when the man of sin is "revealed")

--the MIDDLE ("who opposeth... exalteth... sitteth" v.4 = Dan9:27b = Matt24:15-16)

--the END ("whom the Lord shall consume... destroy" v.8 = Dan9:27c)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#38
Hey! Ahwatukee... PTL! (btw is you nick an Indian word?)

In the following scriptures, I can see what you mean; but you know how we all resist changing our long held opinions; as well we should, so as not to be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine!

Rom 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
1 Thes 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
1 Thes 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

but you know how we all resist changing our long held opinions;
The above is a typical attempt to discredit the truth. What I have shared with you is not an opinion, but is scriptural.

I've heard this false apologetic before from others. However, believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer either the wrath to come, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments leading up to Christ's return to the earth to end the age, nor the wrath of being cast into the lake of fire at the great white throne judgment. Believers are not appointed to suffer any of God's wrath and that because Jesus already experienced it for all believers, satisfying it completely. Believers have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God through faith in the shed blood of Christ. Why would you think that believers are not appointed to suffer wrath at the great white throne judgment, but are to suffer God's coming wrath on this earth?

2 Pet 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
Regarding the above scripture, the church will have been resurrected and the living changed immortal and glorified and caught up way before that event takes place.

1 Pet 4:17,18 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God."
The judgment spoken of for believers is not for sin, but will be at the Bema seat of Christ where believers will receive rewards or loss of reward. It is not speaking about the judgment at the great white throne judgment, because the church is not judged at that judgment, but will be a judgment for the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. These are those of whom the second death will have power over.

Noah was not removed from the earth before the Lord's judgment, but rather, he was shut up into the ark before the rain began to fall.
All you're doing is repeating the false apologetics of what others have already said. It was not God's intention to remove Noah and his family from the earth, but to save them in the midst of God's plague in order for them to repopulate the earth once the waters receded. Once Christ descends to the atmosphere, according to His promise, He will gather the entire church (John 14:1-3, I Thes.4:13-17) and will take us back to the Father's house, that where He is we may be also.
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
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#39
Matthew 24 has nothing to say about the Rapture. It is all about the temple, Jerusalem, Judea, the Jews, as well as how things would develop on earth until the Second Coming of Christ. The "elect" in this chapter is a reference to the believing Jewish remnant on earth.

It makes perfect sense to God. God's children are meant to rejoice with Him even while He pours out His judgments on the wicked, the unbelieving, and the ungodly. The whole purpose of the Gospel is to bring all men to repentance so that they do not have to face the wrath of God.
Take a look at the word 'elect'. In every verse in the NT it refers to Christians, a few times to Christ, and I think once to angels. Not once does the word 'eklektos' imply a remnant of Jews in the NT. The word is used over a dozen times in the NT and it's always in reference to Christians. Take a look for yourself...

elect

picked out, chosen
  1. chosen by God,
    1. to obtain salvation through Christ
      1. Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
    2. the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
    3. choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians.
The Wrath of God spoken about in 1 Thes. 5:9 ...For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Is averted by and attributed to salvation, NOT a rapture. The wrath mentioned in the book of Revelation is endured by everyone here at the time it comes.
 

DudleyDorite

Active member
Aug 7, 2018
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#40
"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."

What holds back the man of sin is the apostasy.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."
This is probably the most difficult verse in the entire passage. It's an unseen power that allows lawlessness, and after it, or he, is removed the man of sin is revealed. One idea is that this occurs in the angelic realm.