RE: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

[Magenta]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Well it is just a statement of fact that a false accusation is a charge that is not true. It could be that it is made in ignorance or for other reasons.

You have both made your ignorance glaringly obvious, this is true. You now say a false accusation is a charge that is not true, but making such a charge itself is not an accusation according to you. You are a liar and a deceiver. Why do you keep coming back?

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

You have both made your ignorance glaringly obvious, this is true. You now say a false accusation is a charge that is not true, but making such a charge itself is not an accusation according to you. You are a liar and a deceiver. Why do you keep coming back?

That is not what I said. I said that a false accusation is a charge that is not true. Now a false accusation can be made for ignorance or for other reasons.

If it is for ignorance, then the person is sincere, and therefore since they are sincere they are honest, which means also sincere. So then if they make a false accusation sincerely but in ignorance then they are not being dishonest though their accusation is still false because it is not true.

 

[Magenta]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

That is not what I said. I said that a false accusation is a charge that is not true. Now a false accusation can be made for ignorance or for other reasons.

If it is for ignorance, then the person is sincere, and therefore since they are sincere they are honest, which means also sincere. So then if they make a false accusation sincerely but in ignorance then they are not being dishonest though their accusation is still false because it is not true.

Sincerely, you are wrong, you did say it, you claimed your accusation of the other falsely accusing you was not an accusation, but now you lie about it, again, plus you have multiple times falsely accused me with full knowledge of your error and refused to acknowledge it, you pretend what you say is sincere but what others say is not, you elevate yourself, you rationalize and justify your ignorance, your sincerity is not a hallmark of honesty but deception fully working it's charm on you because you lack wisdom while having a gift for twisting words to suit your dastardly purposes.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Sincerely, you are wrong, you did say it, you claimed your accusation of the other falsely accusing you was not an accusation, but now you lie about it, again, plus you have multiple times falsely accused me with full knowledge of your error and refused to acknowledge it, you pretend what you say is sincere but what others say is not, you elevate yourself, you rationalize and justify your ignorance, your sincerity is not a hallmark of honesty but deception fully working it's charm on you because you lack wisdom while having a gift for twisting words to suit your dastardly purposes.

If I am not being dishonest with him as he accuses me, and ask him what he thinks my point of view is and go to lengths to prove myself, then I am making no accusation, but merely stating the fact his accusation is false.

As for you, is it a false accusation that you said this?

No, your proclivity to sexual promiscuity tells you you can have as many women as you want as long as you marry them, and you rationalize it by perverting Scripture. Go read up about Hosea.

I will ask again and you can show me how honest you really are. Did you say that or did you not?

 

[TraySir]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Having a wife, came from God, and He does not restrict how many a man can have, unless that man is the king of Israel, or desires to be a bishop, deacon, or elder.

Your last statement about the Bible condoning everything, is a straw man.

What about the message of Paul in Ephesians 5.22-32. The husband, wife relationship follows the relationship of Christ with the church. That becomes clearly blurred and disjointed when a husband has more than one wife. Christ has more than one body!

A person who intends to marry another person should also make certain he/she is not breaking their vows. The vows would have to have been worded to fit the plans the couple.

And then also Romans 7 shows polygamy is adultery.

A man (singular) and woman (singular) become one (singular). Genesis 2.24.

Now that's what the bible says.

Polygamy is sin.

 

[samuel23]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Hi Tray: I am not for polygamy, however polygamy is not adultery in the bible. What about the story that Jesus told of the man who married ten women?

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Yes,it would be very wise for him to refrain from it. My husband does not need nor want another wife. He made a commitment to me,as I did him. There are no benefits to a "sister" wife. And other than being completely selfish, I cannot understand why a man would want more than one wife. How could anyone make love to his wife,leave her alone and go sleep with another woman. The only woman that would accept that would be one brainwashed to believe its right.

There are benefits to having a sister wife. A man shouldn't just leave his wife to sleep with just another woman. That is a Straw Man fallacy. No one is proposing that he go to just another woman. That is not what polygyny is about. It is about having marital relationships with each WIFE. A WIFE is not just another woman. She is a woman to whom the man has made a commitment to spend the rest of his life with, should she outlive him. There is no brainwashing needed to see that this is acceptable.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Hi Tray: I am not for polygamy, however polygamy is not adultery in the bible. What about the story that Jesus told of the man who married ten women?

Not only that, but this groom is a portrayal of Christ Himself!

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

What about the message of Paul in Ephesians 5.22-32. The husband, wife relationship follows the relationship of Christ with the church. That becomes clearly blurred and disjointed when a husband has more than one wife. Christ has more than one body!

We are all parts of his body.

A person who intends to marry another person should also make certain he/she is not breaking their vows. The vows would have to have been worded to fit the plans the couple.

You will find no disagreement from me on this point.

And then also Romans 7 shows polygamy is adultery.

Please elaborate. I am not actually defending all forms of polygamy; only the form most commonly referred to as polygamy, known as polygyny.

A man (singular) and woman (singular) become one (singular). Genesis 2.24.

This allows but does NOT mandate monogamy. All this proves is that polygamy is not required. It is a description of marriage. The point is that a man LEAVES his home to start a new one. You are trying to form a completely different doctrine out of this, that was never intended.

Now that's what the bible says.

Polygamy is sin.

No it is not. The Bible NEVER calls it sin.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

If I am not being dishonest with him as he accuses me, and ask him what he thinks my point of view is and go to lengths to prove myself, then I am making no accusation, but merely stating the fact his accusation is false.

As for you, is it a false accusation that you said this?



I will ask again and you can show me how honest you really are. Did you say that or did you not?

You claimed that I changed my position, which I never did. In order to accuse me of that, you took a portion of what I originally said, out of context.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

You claimed that I changed my position, which I never did. In order to accuse me of that, you took a portion of what I originally said, out of context.

I asked if you would like to change your position, that it doesn't set the example of Christ's teaching. Would you like to change it to the latter part of your quote? If so, that is fine, but then I will have another question. If not, that is fine too, but then my question will remain at "what example then does it set".

 

[kaylagrl]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Mark 10: 6-8 [FONT=&quot]“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and be united to his wife[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[b][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the two will become one flesh.’[/FONT][FONT=&quot][c] So[/FONT][FONT=&quot] they are no longer two[/FONT][FONT=&quot], but [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]one flesh.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]It wasn’t until sin made man fall (Gen. 4:23) that polygamy occurs. Cain was cursed, Lamech is a descendent of Cain and the first to practice polygamy. The first time polygamous relationship is found in the Bible is with a thriving rebellious society in sin; when a murderer named “Lamech [a descendant of Cain] took for himself two wives” (Gen.4:19, 23).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The same Godly pattern of one man and one wife is lived by Noah. At the time of the Ark (Gen. 7:7), Noah took his one wife into the ark, all his son’s took one wife; God called Noah’s family righteous and pure. If polygamy were ordained of God, it would have made sense that Noah and his sons would have taken additional wives with them to repopulate the earth faster from the cataclysm.

This was to be a permanent union between man and woman that they might be helpful to one another (Genesis 2:18). Marriage represents a relationship of both spiritual and physical unity.

We have examples of saints in the Old Testament going off the commandment i.e Solomon, but this is not God approved. Many of the patriarchs took more than one wife. Abraham, by recommendation of Sarah, took her maid. Jacob was tricked through Laban, into taking Leah first, and then Rachel, to whom he had been betrothed. polygamy was not wrong in ancient cultures, but was a departure from the divine institution that God ordained.

God never condoned polygamy but like divorce he allowed it to occur and did not bring an immediate punishment for this disobedience. Deut. 17:14-17: “I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,' “you shall surely set a king over you whom the LORD your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother. But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the LORD has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.' “Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.” This is the command of God, and he has never changed it.

1 Kings 11:3 says Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines violating the principle of monogamy that he was given through the law of Moses. Consider that Solomon at one time was the wisest man in the world. In I Kings 11:4: “For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.” Notice Solomon became a polytheist because he was influenced in polygamy. In his case many wives, became many gods. Scripture has always commanded monogamy.

The Bible says adultery is not a choice, one does not have to acquire another wife to solve his urges. Jesus said if you look upon another woman with desire (married or not) it is adultery, a sin.

The New Testament teaches that, “Each man [should] have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband” (1 Cor. 7:2). Monogamous marriage teaches us the type of the relation Christ has between himself and His bride, the church (Eph. 5:31-32). The church is called the bride, collectively as one (singular) each person is not a bride, as in plurality of wives and marriages.

How many wives did Adam have in Gen.2:24? One, God did not take two wives out from his side. Monogamy has always been God's standard for the human race. From the very beginning God set the pattern by creating a monogamous marriage relationship -one man and one woman, Adam and Eve

Excerpts from What does Scripture say about Polygamy


Its foolish to try and argue that polygamy was ordained by God and try to compare it to the monogamy between one man and one woman in marriage.This was Gods plan from the beginning. Very clear in Scripture.[FONT=&quot]




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[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

You said we are not leaders in the church, so therefore I ask, if we are priests and kings of God, are we not leaders in the church?

You said it is poor logic. I asked why it is poor logic?

You claim it is a false teaching and disjointed. So to accommodate you I ask you and ask you again, but yet have to receive an answer: What example does it set?

Now you said that polygamy sets the example of following the teachings of Christ. So I asked how does it follow the teachings of Christ? You said it doesn't. So therefore I ask if it doesn't, what example does it set?

You asked what am I asking that you have not all ready answered. So I asked again because you have not really given me a straight answer, and said why I ask. You said I put words in your mouth or omit them. I asked if your words are your words and so I showed you and reasoned with you why I ask what I ask based on your response and asked which of the response you hold to. You say you hold that it doesn't set the example of following Christ's teaching. Therefore I ask again; what example does it then set?

Then you falsely accuse me of dishonest tactics to further my point of view. I ask what you believe to be my point of view? You say Paul's admonition. I ask if it is Paul's admonition, is it really my point of view? You say I am putting words in Paul's mouth. I asked what words have I put in Paul's mouth? You say that we are kings and priests. I ask whether Paul said that, or if I asked you a question, and then recapped what we have previously said. You say you have pointed out the flaw in my logic, therefore I recap it all to show you my logic.

Let me also add, for I perceive you may be conflating me with these here that be insulting you quite personally and without valid reason. I am not dishonestly asking you anything, nor presuming you to be a polygamist or interested in cheating on your wife. I believe as you have said it is a purely academic topic, and so this is why I have asked you questions of an academic nature and have referenced Scriptures pertaining to the academic topic.

I did not say that polygamy sets the example of following the teachings of Christ. Deciding to marry a second woman, without first divorcing your first wife, sets the example of following Christ's teachings, ONLY in the sense that while the laws of the land ALLOW you to divorce your first wife, you did the RIGHT thing, by REMAINING married to her.

Paul NEVER said that if a person desires to be a priest or a king, he should be the husband of one wife. You take a passage out of Revelations and try to insert it into the Pauline epistles. This is just as wrong as taking the two statements written by Luke, about Judas, and doing likewise out of context. A text without a context is a pretext.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I did not say that polygamy sets the example of following the teachings of Christ. Deciding to marry a second woman, without first divorcing your first wife, sets the example of following Christ's teachings, ONLY in the sense that while the laws of the land ALLOW you to divorce your first wife, you did the RIGHT thing, by REMAINING married to her.

Paul NEVER said that if a person desires to be a priest or a king, he should be the husband of one wife. You take a passage out of Revelations and try to insert it into the Pauline epistles. This is just as wrong as taking the two statements written by Luke, about Judas, and doing likewise out of context. A text without a context is a pretext.

This is what I asked you;
If we are priests and kings of God; are we then leaders in the church?

Yea, so then since you say polygamy does not set the example of following the teachings of Christ, then I therefore ask; what example does it set?

Mindful I am not asking about what happens after a marriage, be it monogamous or polygamous, which you keep trying to tell me about, I understand all ready your position on what should be to happen afterwards. I am not asking about divorce or any of that. I am asking; what example is set simply by marrying more than one spouse?

 

[samuel23]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

No winner in this one, or maybe both sides are winners. It is evident that God gave Adam one wife(and that was more then he could handle), and it is also evident that a leader of the church can only have one wife. On the other hand, trying to claim that polygamy is a sin according to the bible is futile, because the bible does not teach that.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Quote "I hope for your sake, that your husband does not decide to address his lust outside of your marriage."

And I hope for your wifes sake she moves on and finds a mature man,as I have,that knows the difference between love and lust. If your wife cant fulfill you sexually you need to seek help as a couple. Intimacy from love lasts a lifetime. Sounds like you need to learn the difference between the two.

This is hypocrisy on your part. God hates divorce! He never says He hates polygamy.

Quote "My worship pastor from my previous (mega)church abandoned his wife, for another woman. She is a very attractive woman with a beautiful singing voice, but that did not keep his feet from straying."

Of course it didn't keep him from straying. You said so yourself,its about lust. Her beauty and talent doesn't matter.

I never said that marriage is about lust. You are putting words in my mouth. Lust is an issue that men battle with. God gave us the institution of marriage to satisfy that lust, and to provide companionship. Lusting after another man's wife, is sinful, but fulfilling lust within your own marriage is not.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

The truth of the matter is that Scripture plainly and explicitly tells men to be faithful to the wife of their youth. Being faithful cannot in any way be twisted to include running off to find a second third and fourth women to share the marriage bed. God makes this abundantly plain by using marital infidelity as an analogy for idolatry again and again. Idolatry, which God abhors. Idolatry, which is severely punished. Pretending this is not so does not make it so. Polygamy is not supported by Scripture in any way shape or form.

Where God compares it to idolatry, He has two wives, and the adultery is on the part of the wives; not Himself.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

No winner in this one, or maybe both sides are winners. It is evident that God gave Adam one wife(and that was more then he could handle), and it is also evident that a leader of the church can only have one wife. On the other hand, trying to claim that polygamy is a sin according to the bible is futile, because the bible does not teach that.

Hmm, now this is an interesting point.

 

[kaylagrl]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

There are benefits to having a sister wife. A man shouldn't just leave his wife to sleep with just another woman. That is a Straw Man fallacy. No one is proposing that he go to just another woman. That is not what polygyny is about. It is about having marital relationships with each WIFE. A WIFE is not just another woman. She is a woman to whom the man has made a commitment to spend the rest of his life with, should she outlive him. There is no brainwashing needed to see that this is acceptable.

Quote "There are benefits to having a sister wife."

I'd think,being a man,that would be unfair for you to make a comment on the situation. Since all the benefit goes to you,its hardly fair.


Quote "A man shouldn't just leave his wife to sleep with just another woman. That is a Straw Man fallacy. No one is proposing that he go to just another woman."

So you would have no issue if your wife had another husband and made love to him.You'd be ok with that?

Quote "That is not what polygyny is about."

You are the one that talked about fulfilling lusts. I think we know what its all about.

Quote ". It is about having marital relationships with each WIFE. "

Having sex with different woman,ya,we got it. Again unless a woman is brainwashed into the religion no married woman would accept their husband making love to another woman,"wife" or not. No woman in her right mind.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Quote "There are benefits to having a sister wife."

I'd think,being a man,that would be unfair for you to make a comment on the situation. Since all the benefit goes to you,its hardly fair.

Arguments do not have gender. These arguments would be true whether made by a man or a woman. This is a form of Ad Hominem.

Quote "A man shouldn't just leave his wife to sleep with just another woman. That is a Straw Man fallacy. No one is proposing that he go to just another woman."

So you would have no issue if your wife had another husband and made love to him.You'd be ok with that?

That is considered adultery. I didn't make the rules. I simply abide by them.

Quote "That is not what polygyny is about."

You are the one that talked about fulfilling lusts. I think we know what its all about.

I am not the one who brought up the topic of lust. I was simply answering an accusation. What do you find so horrible about sex within the boundaries of marriage?

Quote ". It is about having marital relationships with each WIFE. "

Having sex with different woman,ya,we got it. Again unless a woman is brainwashed into the religion no married woman would accept their husband making love to another woman,"wife" or not. No woman in her right mind.

You are intentionally leaving out the point I made about being MARRIED to those women. That is dishonest and misleading!