RE: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Quote "Well now that I am back to attempt to answer all your objections, you want to shut me up."

Ok,so once again this is a discussion forum. Its not a matter of shutting anyone up.You give an opinion,someone else gives an opinion. Thats the way this works. If you cant take disagreement then this is not the place for you.

I really don't need you to lecture me on discussion forums. If you try to say that this discussion has gone on long enough, you are just trying to get the last word in. Nice try!

Quote " I have been working on my marriage issues. You don't know whether polygamy will help or not. "

Can you be honest with yourself for a minute? Do honestly think another relationship will work in the middle of a failing relationship? Thats just common sense.

I do, and for reasons one of your cohorts has mentioned... "...Jockeying for position..."

Quote" Right now, she is in the processing phase. If it is God's will or not, I seriously doubt you would know.

You said you were willing to go to a counselor...that agreed with polygamy. If you think strong arming your wife will work or is Gods will Id say you're very immature. A little disagreement with women here and you fly off into a rage.If you carry on like that with your wife when you dont get your own way Im not surprised your marriage is in trouble. I tried to empathize and you turned and attacked me.I think you have some maturing to do.

You misquoted me, and that is dishonest. Where did I fly off into a rage? I would like to see one post where I used ALL CAPS. I am just having fun poking holes in your arguments, and pointing out the fact that you claimed victory prematurely.

Quote " You do not act like one who has the Spirit of Christ in you in the first place."

Really?! Well for your info I spent 20 yrs in ministry.Ive heard it all. Ive talked to pastors,parents,spouses,teens all with all kinds of issues. Ive traveled in all denominations all over the country. You can be as defensive as you want to be. Pushing your wife and your agenda is not of God,and its not the Spirit of Christ. Until you get real your marriage will continue to be unhappy.Best of luck to you.

OK, that all sounds impressive. If you have heard it all, does that include polygamy? I am just wondering how many marriages could have been saved if you had your eyes opened to the truth of what God's Word actually says on this topic. Can I assume you have read the entire Bible, as I have, and I am not trying to brag here, but I have read it multiple times. I have memorized entire books (Pauline epistles and James). Have you even read through the first five books of the Bible?

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Hmmm, I notice we see much the verse saying that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church, and this is a good verse. Though I wonder if in our time if a lot of these marriage type problems are actually originated in the verses before it not being heeded.

Ephesians 5:22-24
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Silence! False. Wrong. Error. Deception. Deceit. Leading from the truth.

You create your own obstacles. The more thou that speaketh, the more entangled thou becomest.

I

Saying it is so, does not make it so. I have challenged you to point out one Scripture I have bent or twisted. I am working through all the comments posted, but so far I have not seen a response.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

My wife and I are going to take the kids to see the movie "The Case for Christ". I will be back. It has been fun!

 

[Chokmahiel]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

My wife and I are going to take the kids to see the movie "The Case for Christ". I will be back. It has been fun!

That sounds fun, have a good one.

 

[kaylagrl]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

I really don't need you to lecture me on discussion forums. If you try to say that this discussion has gone on long enough, you are just trying to get the last word in. Nice try!



I do, and for reasons one of your cohorts has mentioned... "...Jockeying for position..."



You misquoted me, and that is dishonest. Where did I fly off into a rage? I would like to see one post where I used ALL CAPS. I am just having fun poking holes in your arguments, and pointing out the fact that you claimed victory prematurely.



OK, that all sounds impressive. If you have heard it all, does that include polygamy? I am just wondering how many marriages could have been saved if you had your eyes opened to the truth of what God's Word actually says on this topic. Can I assume you have read the entire Bible, as I have, and I am not trying to brag here, but I have read it multiple times. I have memorized entire books (Pauline epistles and James). Have you even read through the first five books of the Bible?

Quote "I really don't need you to lecture me on discussion forums. If you try to say that this discussion has gone on long enough, you are just trying to get the last word in. Nice try!"

And you're not trying to get the last word?! People are free to disagree and say what they want. Discussion.


Quote "I do, and for reasons one of your cohorts has mentioned... "...Jockeying for position..."


Please elaborate on this...


Quote "Where did I fly off into a rage?"


You called people wolves did you not?

Quote" I am just having fun poking holes in your arguments, and pointing out the fact that you claimed victory prematurely."

You know if I had as many marriage issues as you seem say you have I wouldnt be spending time trying to play head games with people in discussion forums. You seem to be immature enough to think you're winning something. What exactly are you winning? You haven't changed my mind. I could care less about winning anything. A win would be you saying you and your wife have gone to counseling. Other than that you can keep this up for 400 pages.Could care less. It seems you're just immature enough to do so.

Quote"OK, that all sounds impressive."

Really? Wasn't meant to,was meant to say I that I was trying to empathize with you. Even though I dont have a Christ like Spirit,according to you.


Quote "I am just wondering how many marriages could have been saved if you had your eyes opened to the truth of what God's Word actually says on this topic. "

I dont know.Let me know when it works for your marriage and then we'll talk again.


Quote" Have you even read through the first five books of the Bible?"

So reading the first five books of the Bible should make me want to have a sister wife or...? I guess I better go read them again huh? I know plenty of people who have claimed to read the Bible from cover to cover but the life they live,I think they were reading it upside down.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Quote "I really don't need you to lecture me on discussion forums. If you try to say that this discussion has gone on long enough, you are just trying to get the last word in. Nice try!"

And you're not trying to get the last word?! People are free to disagree and say what they want. Discussion.

You are free to try, but as you say, this being a discussion forum, you are not in position to shut down the conversation.

Quote "I do, and for reasons one of your cohorts has mentioned... "...Jockeying for position..."


Please elaborate on this...

Competition is a good thing.

Quote "Where did I fly off into a rage?"


You called people wolves did you not?

Nope. Not what I said.

Quote" I am just having fun poking holes in your arguments, and pointing out the fact that you claimed victory prematurely."

You know if I had as many marriage issues as you seem say you have I wouldnt be spending time trying to play head games with people in discussion forums. You seem to be immature enough to think you're winning something. What exactly are you winning? You haven't changed my mind. I could care less about winning anything. A win would be you saying you and your wife have gone to counseling. Other than that you can keep this up for 400 pages.Could care less. It seems you're just immature enough to do so.

Some people will never change their mind no matter what you show them, but by pointing out your logical fallacies, and destroying your arguments, other readers can freely come to their own conclusions. You will never win anything by condemning people for something the Scriptures clearly never condemn. I have something to gain on the other hand, namely a more peaceful marriage, without the hassle of people unfamiliar with Scripture. Having a wife who cares more about the opinions of others, than what the Scriptures clearly teach, gives me strong incentive to correct misguided opinions of as many people as I possibly can.

There are still people today who condemn interracial marriage, and nothing I or anybody else has to say to them, will ever convince them, that they are not in line with Scripture. The point of reasoning with them, however is to persuade anybody who might follow them, that they are misguided.

Quote"OK, that all sounds impressive."

Really? Wasn't meant to,was meant to say I that I was trying to empathize with you. Even though I dont have a Christ like Spirit,according to you.

Well, hoping that my wife will divorce me, is not indicative of a Christlike Spirit.

Quote "I am just wondering how many marriages could have been saved if you had your eyes opened to the truth of what God's Word actually says on this topic. "

I dont know.Let me know when it works for your marriage and then we'll talk again.

I'll keep you informed. This topic is near and dear to me. I have strong reasons to believe my father would not have molested my sisters, if he had had another wife. I am told that he started when my mother, my brother and I, were in another state for three weeks. He was left alone with my older sister for three weeks, while my grandfather was on his death bed. I also believe my paternal grandfather would not have committed suicide, had there been no prohibition on polygamy, as he would not have grown up in a broken home. Rather than put his own children through a divorce, he decided to end his life.

Following man-made laws has not resulted in fewer broken homes in our society. There has been abuse in monogamous homes, just as much, if not more so, than in polygamous homes. I don't agree with all forms of polygamy; only those in which there is full knowledge and consent.

Quote" Have you even read through the first five books of the Bible?"

So reading the first five books of the Bible should make me want to have a sister wife or...? I guess I better go read them again huh? I know plenty of people who have claimed to read the Bible from cover to cover but the life they live,I think they were reading it upside down.

It should make you more informed. The fact that you have not, speaks volumes about your opinion on this matter.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

That sounds fun, have a good one.

Thanks. Unfortunately, it did not work out for us. I took my older son to see it. Wife still wants to see it. I guess we will have to wait for it to come out on PureFlix.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

OK, I promised I would answer this when I have time, so here goes:

The clearest evidence that monogamy is God’s ideal is from Christ’s teaching on marriage in Matt. 19:3–6. In this passage, He cited the Genesis creation account, in particular Gen. 1:27 and 2:24, saying ‘the two will become one flesh’, not more than two.

A text without a context is a pretext. The context is divorce, NOT polygamy. If that is indeed the clearest evidence you can come up with, then your position is in real trouble.

Another important biblical teaching is the parallel of husband and wife with Christ and the Church in Eph. 5:22–33, which makes sense only with monogamy—Jesus will not have multiple brides.

God did indicate that He had two wives. Polygamy is not for everyone, but that does not mean it is for no one, any more than that there is a requirement that everyone marry.

The 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Commandment ‘… You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife [singular] …’ (Exodus 20:17) also presupposes the ideal that there is only one wife.

Now that is the most desperate attempt I have ever seen for anyone trying to argue against polygamy. Remember Moses also wrote regulations for men that have two wives, which clearly does not presuppose only one wife. Whether one wife or multiple wives fit into some presupposed "ideal", this is not argument that polygamy is somehow sinful or immoral.

Polygamy is expressly forbidden for church elders (1 Tim. 3:2). And this is not just for elders, because Paul also wrote: ‘each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.’Paul goes on to explain marital duties in terms that make sense only with one husband to one wife.

I hope you took the time to look at the text in the Greek online Bible, where I pointed out what Paul actually said. The YLT correctly translates that verse have her "proper" husband.

The example of godly people is also important. Isaac and Rebekah were monogamous—they are often used as a model in Jewish weddings today. Other examples were Joseph and Asenath, and Moses and Zipporah. The only survivors of the Flood were four monogamous couples.

All others were wicked and destroyed. Does the Bible clearly teach monogamy? - creation.com

So are you here presupposing that their wickedness was polygamy? Josephus tells us that the angels "accompanied with women, and begat sons." That is a whole can of worms I don't want to get into, but in neither the Bible itself, nor in any extra-Biblical do we find any indication that the wickedness God condemned prior to the flood of Noah, had anything to do with polygyny. The only passage that even mentions polygyny, was the verse in the lineage of Cain about Lamech, and that is not mentioned in context of any wickedness, save that he made a statement about killing someone in retaliation.

I see you pulled all this off creation.com. If I find a way to respond to that post, I will. Meanwhile, you should Google "Objections to Polygamy".

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh.

Wife - singular not plural in the Greek text..

Twain - two not three or more in the Greek text.

.....

Indeed each time a man takes a wife, he is to become one flesh with her.

 

[DanD]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Maybe you missed the point.

I didn't miss the point, I just thought it was silly. I have more time to spend with my wife than someone who plays golf.

We aren't slaves to our lusts.

If only that were true for everyone, the world would be a much better place, wouldn't it.

Even though we want something doesn't mean it is good for us.

Go on.

Even if I ate salads all day every day, continuously binging on leafy goodness, it doesn't mean I'm doing a good thing. Should I say, "At least I'm not eating bacon and cake all day."

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to get at here.

The point is that we are new creations and don't need to satisfy our lusts.

Now, hold on! There is a difference between being a slave to lust, and satisfying what your cohorts were referring to as lust. I am not actually agreeing with them that this is the same definition of lust that the Bible speaks about, but only that God created marriage as the boundaries within which a man should be satisfying his sexual desires.

We can just ignore them. Adam was given Eve to help him with his mission. She wasn't given to satisfy his lusts.

Your cohorts were the ones calling a man's God given desires "lust". This is not what is meant when Scripture speaks of "the lust of the flesh".

Look at the time line and see how long they waited to have sex. Look at the span between children. They weren't going at it like bunnies.

Not all men have the same se drive.

Your lust needs to be examined not the laws for polygamy. If you need another wife for sexual fulfillment then you need to analyze why God gave man, woman.

If you have read enough of my other posts, you would see that I have analyzed, and examined this issue from every possible angle anyone could throw at me.

We are to join to become one. One is enough for any man whose desire in life is to please God and not the flesh.

Here you engage in the Ambiguity Fallacy. The word "One" has multiple meanings, but you conflate them.

Abraham, Jacob and Gideon, pleased God and are listed in Hebrews 11, and they had multiple wives. David was called "a man
after God's own heart." Was he not pleasing enough to God?

 

[Galatea]

Re: Polygamy -- continuation of older thread.

Dandy, you did not address my hypothetical situation that I proposed to you, making me winner of the thread by default.

I shall refresh your memory, as I know you have much on your mind (a bevy of women).

You conceded that the Bible tells men to live their wives as Christ loves the church, and gave His life for the church. You said that is well and true.

I then suggested that perhaps you and your wives might be on a date. A mad gunman comes into the theater. You must die in order to save your wife- but WHICH?

PS, there are no children, disabled people, old people, or pregnant ladies in attendance.

PPS, you are equidistant from all of your wives

PPPS, I think having multiple husbands might be a great idea. After all, Chinese women are in decline due to China's One Child policy. Asian ladies are much in demand. Therefore, they could have multiple husbands to supply all their demands

Or, women could shop with complete immunity as they will have multiple husbands' income at their use.

Plus, if a couple husbands like football, they can watch the games together while the wife is amused by her less sporty husband. Therefore, no need of being a football widow.

And, surely ONE will be handy about the house or car.

A woman could make multiple honey do lists, which must be rather fun.

The benefits are endless. Besides, the Bible says "husbands love your wives", and wives are to "reverence their husbands". While I can reverence any number of people simultaneously, I can only love one romantically.

Unless you are suggesting you can love more than one woman romantically at the same time. If so, your affection must be divided. It must be a sad, tiny thing- your love- divided among multiple women. How horribly unfulfilled and cheated they must feel, not to have it all to themselves and intact.

If you do not respond, I win by default.