Replacement/Supersessionism Theology,Why it Matters

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Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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Ah man, See here you messed up. Thats is what happens when you listen to men, and not God.

Gods covenant with Abraham was not a two way covenant, God put abraham to sleep. He thus was not able to walk down the middle. to promise to keep his part.

God said I WILL. or I GIVE, He did not say, Ok Abraham, I will do this if you do that, do you agree?? Ok ten lets walk down in between these things and commit before God to keep our part of the covenant.


Anyone with an open mind understand this..

But your stuck with a church who tells you want to believe. and you follow them bllindly.
eternally-grateful,

You should read your Bible better and without the blinders of Scofield. This has been the fallacy of most of the earthly kingdom theory that Covenants are only one way. By definition it is an agreement between two parties. There is no covenant or promise of God that is unconditional. The only reason that God did what He did regarding walking through the fire, is because Abram was having a tough time with his faith in believing God. It is essentially God reinforcing His promise, but it does not negate the covenent made before that refinement where obedience is required. The whole issue of sacrificing Isacc was to cement Abraham's trust and faith.

The promise begins in Gen 12 and goes through several additions in chapter 3, 7, 13, 14, 17 18, 21, 22 and possibly elsewhere. It is one of promise from God and the only requirement here as in other covenants of scripture, is faithfulness, trust in God. Gen 17:9ff. All through scripture including those with Adam, Noah, Moses, David and finally Christ are all conditional. Hebrews spells out the New Covenant but also shows how the old covenent failed. It uses Jer 31: 31-34 to show the better promises than the Old Covenant. The fact that the new replaces the old, clearly states that the old is no longer in effect.

The only interpreter, guess who, that says it was one way, is Scofield and other premillennialist/dispensationalist and he has an ax to grind to support his errant view.
You fail everytime as man will with personal interpretations. You self convict with your man made theory where scripture needs to be changed to authenticate a premise to supposedly make it scriptural.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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If this has already been covered please forgive me, I'm traveling today and can't keep up with all the action. Anyway, do any of you think that Abraham was a Christian just like us?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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If this has already been covered please forgive me, I'm traveling today and can't keep up with all the action. Anyway, do any of you think that Abraham was a Christian just like us?
I do.

I think Abraham trusted God even though he didn't 100% know how God would take care of him.

Same with us. We trust that Christ will take care of us even though we don't 100% know how He Works. Or why...
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I do.

I think Abraham trusted God even though he didn't 100% know how God would take care of him.

Same with us. We trust that Christ will take care of us even though we don't 100% know how He Works. Or why...
Do you think God gave the land of Canaan to Abraham or did he give him the world or did he give him both?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Do you think God gave the land of Canaan to Abraham or did he give him the world or did he give him both?
At first I thought God gave the physical land of Canaan to Abraham.

But now I wonder if God was ever talking about any physical land that we are familiar with.

I'm certain it is a blessing to be given actual land that we are familiar with.

I'm even more certain it is a blessing to be given a heavenly land.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


I suppose my real answer is that I don't know for sure... sorry.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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We will inherit a new heaven and a new earth :)
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Do you think God gave the land of Canaan to Abraham or did he give him the world or did he give him both?
Heb 11.10-16 says he was expecting a heavenly country
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Then Why did God call the physical and his? Why did he tell his future descendents, that physical land was theres. Why did he tell them that if they sinned, he would remove them from that land, But if they repented, he would return them to it.

Why did God do all of this, If the land was never theres, He only promised them some spiritual land in eternity which did not even exist yet, where no one can sin (thus he would never have to punish them?

No, your stuck with romanology, which was formed in the context of antisemetism and self fulfilment (greed).

LOL you are sooooo arrogant.

You're not arguing with me you are arguing with God (but then you do that all the time)

Just for your information, I know the writer to the Hebrews is not known, but he wasn't me lol

What did he say - they seek a better country, that is a heavenly. So you'd better argue with God

I know it debunks your whole position, but that's the way it is

Can I send you a New Testament? You would find it interesting
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Abraham was saved the same way all elect ,predestined sinners are saved: By God's Grace. God has an eternal Cov. of Grace, which is unconditional and will never fail to save all that God has purposed to save. Rom.8:29-30 is the only place in the Bible where God clearly states His Eternal Cov. of Grace. We can not think we can change God's plan of salvation. All the covenants God makes in time, are working out HIS eternal Cov. of Grace. The new cov in Jesus blood is the bases of all the grace covenants God made before. God will not make any more covenants with mankind. NOW. we must be careful to read all the covenants God makes in time: The effect of every covenant is still in place in some way, shape or form. They all build upon the former ones, none will wipe out the previous one totally. The New Cov. in Jesus blood does not wipe out any of the effects of any of the previous covenants. The New Testament is the key that interprets the old. If we all would just state the truth of the New T., we would not be so confused when the Old. The Old T. is full of trues of God which Jesus never changed. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Nov 23, 2013
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At first I thought God gave the physical land of Canaan to Abraham.

But now I wonder if God was ever talking about any physical land that we are familiar with.

I'm certain it is a blessing to be given actual land that we are familiar with.

I'm even more certain it is a blessing to be given a heavenly land.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


I suppose my real answer is that I don't know for sure... sorry.
I'm very open minded when it comes to scripture and I sort of see why some think the way they do about Canaan but I don't see where the Genesis account limits the land to how far Abraham can see. And the only reason he got the land was because he believed God or rather he was a christian. Paul says the promise includes not only canaan, but the entire world.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I'm very open minded when it comes to scripture and I sort of see why some think the way they do about Canaan but I don't see where the Genesis account limits the land to how far Abraham can see. And the only reason he got the land was because he believed God or rather he was a christian. Paul says the promise includes not only canaan, but the entire world.
Well not only that but what HeRose brought up about the NT.

Abraham saw Christs day and was glad.

So what Abraham "saw" when he lifted his eyes is quite a bit more than what we probably think.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Well not only that but what HeRose brought up about the NT.

Abraham saw Christs day and was glad.

So what Abraham "saw" when he lifted his eyes is quite a bit more than what we probably think.
In King James Bible terminology, he saw into the future. Afar off means more than distance, it also means Afar off in time. I believe the Bible teaches that Abraham was taken in the spirit to calvary on the day of the crucifixtion.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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If this has already been covered please forgive me, I'm traveling today and can't keep up with all the action. Anyway, do any of you think that Abraham was a Christian just like us?
Yes, he was saved the same way we are. The difference ONLY is that he had the promise of the Messiah. We have seen and heard the Messiah in the Messianic era and ONLY look to the second coming.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
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Something to Consider

Acts 7

Stephen Addresses the Sanhedrin

1Then said the high priest, Are these things so?

2And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee. 4Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.

Shalom
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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Again I'm looking for the passage where the New Israel=the Church.

Where it says not all Israel is Israel it in context is comparing believing Jews with Jews who do not believe. The believing Jews are the true Israel...nothing to do with the Gentile part of the Church.
It has everything to do with the Gentile part of the Church. The people of God used to be physical Israel through the old covenant which implied circumcision, Torah etc.

Now, in Christ, every believer (whether Jew or Gentile) is God's people/children, not through circumcision or works of Torah, but through faith. We are the offspring of Abraham. Not because we got circumcised, but because we believed the gospel.

I'm sorry, but it is more than clear what Saint Paul is saying. All you have to do is read him with an open mind.
 
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sydlit

Guest
Hi, I don't want to disrupt the thread. I've been reading along. Just thought I'd add this from Paul's letter to the Romans 2:28-29 ---

'...For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit, and not in the letter;
whose praise is not of men, but if God.'

God bless you. Jesus loves you. Keep the faith.:)
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
The NT always speaks as ethnic Jews as separate from the church. I posted several Scriptures about that a couple pages back. The church does not equal Jews nor do they take away the promises from the Jews. Romans 11 is clear. God put Abraham into a deep sleep,He walked between the halved animals Himself. He alone is responsible for the promises that He made to Abraham and his descendants. Either God is able to keep His promise or He isn't. Thats the end of the story.
 
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sydlit

Guest
The NT always speaks as ethnic Jews as separate from the church. I posted several Scriptures about that a couple pages back. The church does not equal Jews nor do they take away the promises from the Jews. Romans 11 is clear. God put Abraham into a deep sleep,He walked between the halved animals Himself. He alone is responsible for the promises that He made to Abraham and his descendants. Either God is able to keep His promise or He isn't. Thats the end of the story.
I hope this large-lettered post wasnt meant to yell at me, as I stated, I wasnt wanting to disrupt the thread, nor was I taking a position on what's been posted here, I was simply quoting scripture, and reminding us that Jesus loves us. That is all.
(btw- but OF God, sorry for typo in previous post)
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
I hope this large-lettered post wasnt meant to yell at me, as I stated, I wasnt wanting to disrupt the thread, nor was I taking a position on what's been posted here, I was simply quoting scripture, and reminding us that Jesus loves us. That is all.

No its large lettered because in the morning my eyes are tired and its easier to see when the letters are larger. Smaller ones make my eyes hurt.I probably need glasses. Whether I agree with what you say or not dont worry about derailing or disrupting the thread. Everyone here has had a say and I didnt figure there would be 43 pages to any thread I started. Its been off and on the rails and I just jump in from time to time.So go ahead and add whatever your view is. You may be the only one in the forum who hasn't yet :)
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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The NT always speaks as ethnic Jews as separate from the church.


Not in Paul's mind:

Gel 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slavenor free, there is neither male nor female – for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

But on your view Jew and Greek are not one. They are separate.

God put Abraham into a deep sleep,He walked between the halved animals Himself. He alone is responsible for the promises that He made to Abraham and his descendants. Either God is able to keep His promise or He isn't. Thats the end of the story.
Paul seems to have thought that the promises made to Abraham found their total fulfillment in Jesus:

2 Cor 1:20 For every one of God’s promises are “Yes” in him; therefore also through him the “Amen” is spoken, to the glory we give to God.

Now either God has made good on his promises to Abraham in and through Jesus or he hasn't. That's the end of the story.