"replacement theology" - what is it?

[KJV1611]

Here's an interesting fact about the Rupert Murdoch Zionist media outlet called 666 NEWS aka FOXNEWS. Off and Fox are the only two words in the English language that in numerology adds up to 666. 666 NEWS (because that's what it really means) is the propaganda machine for the Zionist.

I know, this has nothing to do with this subject... just had to vent over that last post.

This ties in with the above also.

Luke 13:32 KJV
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Herod was an Edomite, a fox and a son of a fox.

A desert fox.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are confusing Israel and Judah EG

In the day of Christ, Judah was Israel... (people called them jews because they lived in Judah)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, what about this part - Romans 9:7-8? Specifically the children of the flesh are not the children of God but the children of the promise are the children of God. How does this relate to "they are not all of Israel, which are of Israel". Is there are a relationship between the two?

Romans 9:7-8 KJV
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

This answered another question.

Jews taught, and believed, that because they were of the seed of Abraham, They got an automatic in. (they even used this reasoning against Jesus)

Paul answered it, Being a natural born child of Abraham will never save anyone Never has, and was NEVER intended to.

so now we have determined 2 of the problems discussed by paul on romans 9.

1. That a physical jew does not get an automatic in (in spite of what they believed)
2. That God chose the nation of Israel before they were even born, and had the ability to do good or evil. Not because the fathers were righteous people (a statement claimed by Jews)

any more you want to look at?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Until does not have to mean that something will change after." Amen! We can't add to or take away from what is written.

No one added anything.. If anything, You are changing or taking away, so I would be careful, Paul warned the gentile church about being wise in THEIR OWN OPINION..

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There in both the NKJV (top) and KJV (bottom) the word "until" is present.

 

[KJV1611]

This answered another question.

Jews taught, and believed, that because they were of the seed of Abraham, They got an automatic in. (they even used this reasoning against Jesus)

Paul answered it, Being a natural born child of Abraham will never save anyone Never has, and was NEVER intended to.

so now we have determined 2 of the problems discussed by paul on romans 9.

1. That a physical jew does not get an automatic in (in spite of what they believed)
2. That God chose the nation of Israel before they were even born, and had the ability to do good or evil. Not because the fathers were righteous people (a statement claimed by Jews)

any more you want to look at?

The children of the flesh are not the children of God, how do you figure the children of the flesh were chosen by God before they wre born? Do you see what I mean? Only the children of the promise were chosen by God, the children of the flesh never were.

 

[trofimus]

Oh yeah woohoo... let's make sure Israel totally desimates and desroys the rest of those poor Palestinian Christians. Or are there any Palestinian Christians left? This crap DISGUSTS me!

The sad reality is that there are much more Palestinian Christians than the Jewish Christians. The vast majority of Christians in Israel are foreigners.

So whom to really support...tough question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It has everything to do with Jeremiah 30. The yoke is broken AT the time of Jacob's trouble. You're using the breaking of the yoke to prove the day of the Lord HASN'T happend yet. See your post below. So I'm asking you when was/will the yoke between Esau and Jacob be broken. That will tell you when the time of Jacob's trouble was.

I'm just starting with this one, I plan to discuss all the arguments you made for future fulfillment of the day of the Lord.

I see

The yoke spoken of in jeremiah is a yoke, Nothing in the passage states it is the yoke of Edom.

Was it not you who just said we should not "add" to the word?

His yoke in my view would be the yoke of satan, For it is the man of sin, Who has the yoke on Israel and has since her birth tried to destroy her, and still to this day would like nothing more than to wipe her off the earth.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

It is impossible to understand Romans if you do not correctly understand Israel though EG

My take is what is the discussion at the time of writing.

Has God made a mistake choosing Israel..

As paul said, Israel was chosen by God, To them were given the adoption, The glory, the covenants, The Law, The services of God, the promises, and through whom Christ in the flesh came.

Yet they rejected God are apposed to their messiah, Crucified their messiah, and want nothing to do with Christianity.

They meaning Judah not Israel

Christianity is in reality a Jewish religion, It has the jewish torah, The jewish Laws, The Jewish Messiah,

The Laws were Israelite laws, not Jewish Laws. The Torah was Israelite, etc etc


And to the gentile, You want me to follow this new religion that even the people to whome it come from reject?

Thats a little hard to take for most people who had to question it.

Simply incorrect EG. Most of Israel accepted Christ, only Judah rejected him


So paul spends 3 chapters explaining all the questions posed. And even answered some responses to some of th ejewish argument also.

for example.

A jew would say, We were chosen because of fathers were righteous.

Pauls response.

God chose them not because their fathers were righteous. He chose them before they were even born for it is said, two children, who had not even been born, before they DID ANY GOOD OR EVIL, that the purpose of ELECTION might stand, not because of works, but of him who calls. "the older shall serve the younger" as it is written "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated"

Both quotes were taken from OT, one concerning the birth of two nations (Jacob and Esau) saying how the older will serve the younger (the older CHILD never served the younger, the Nation of edom did)

The other, written long after both CHILDREN had long since died, About a nation God loved, and a nation God did not love as much (hated)

the rest of the chapters continue in this context. to answer questions.

ie, I look at it from a historical perspective, Who it was written to.

 

[trofimus]

No one added anything.. If anything, You are changing or taking away, so I would be careful, Paul warned the gentile church about being wise in THEIR OWN OPINION..

And Peter warned about Paul that his letters are not always clear to understand

So we should be careful and read only what is written. And even in such case it is quite difficult. Paul is not John.

 

[KJV1611]

No one added anything.. If anything, You are changing or taking away, so I would be careful, Paul warned the gentile church about being wise in THEIR OWN OPINION..

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

There in both the NKJV (top) and KJV (bottom) the word "until" is present.

When the fulness of the gentiles are come in, I'm pretty sure the milennium starts. What happens then, I don't know, the Lord hasn't shown me much about the milennium so I can't say what will happen then.

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Yes, salutary advice from Trofimus

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 24:21 KJV
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I just learned this on my trip. The time of GREAT tribulation such as was not since the beginning and never ever will be seen again was the time of Jacob's trouble in AD 70. There were supernatural forces involved in that attack... read the book of Joel for details.

1. The time of Jacobs trouble was not in AD 70. and the time of great tribulation was not in 7 AD.

Both prophecies (the one by Jeremiah and the one by Jesus in matt 24 state this time will be so great that non after it will be greater.

ww1 and ww2 made ad 70 look like a walk in the part. Also Jesus said this time would be so great, If he did not CUT IT SHORT (put it to an end) by his return, no flesh (life on earth) would survive.

so two issues of note as of now.

1. Jesus did not return to put a stop to it
2. Life on earth was never under threat in AD 70

so there is far to much missing in ad 70 to make it the completion of fulfillment of those two prophecies.

And this does not even speak to the many other things God said would happen at the end of this time which have never occurred yet either.

 

[KJV1611]

I see

The yoke spoken of in jeremiah is a yoke, Nothing in the passage states it is the yoke of Edom.

Was it not you who just said we should not "add" to the word?

His yoke in my view would be the yoke of satan, For it is the man of sin, Who has the yoke on Israel and has since her birth tried to destroy her, and still to this day would like nothing more than to wipe her off the earth.

I'm not adding, that yoke is mentioned in several places in the bible. You can read about it in Nahum 1 and 2.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's an interesting fact about the Rupert Murdoch Zionist media outlet called 666 NEWS aka FOXNEWS. Off and Fox are the only two words in the English language that in numerology adds up to 666. 666 NEWS (because that's what it really means) is the propaganda machine for the Zionist.

I know, this has nothing to do with this subject... just had to vent over that last post.

as per the last two posts.

Israe is still in sin, Why would you, I or anyone else be suprosed by what she is doing?

Does it make you mad? Yeah, Then again, what nation on world is not making us mad right now by what they are doing.

why are we singling out one nation, when all nations are in sin.

This is the cruxt of the issue, and why people call it antisemitism..

You ignore the sins of one nation, and condemn the sin of the other.

I have a roman catholic as one neighbor, and a islamic as the other nighbor. As a child of God I am not in fear. Even if I was to be harrased or suffer tribulation, I was never promised there would never be tribulation in my life. nor were the palestinian christians.

Christians are being beheaded by islam as we speak. What about the ooutcry against them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

its because they're hoping for a "peace treaty" with "Israel" by some antichrist nation(s)/man - the perversion of Dan 9

oh who?

This nonsense is getting real old!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The children of the flesh are not the children of God, how do you figure the children of the flesh were chosen by God before they wre born? Do you see what I mean? Only the children of the promise were chosen by God, the children of the flesh never were.

Gen 25:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Lord said to her:

“Two nations are in your womb, Two peoples shall be separated from your body; One people shall be stronger than the other, And the older shall serve the younger.”



Now please do not tell me God was speaking about spiritual Israel here. He was talking about two physical nations. Jacob and Edom.

 

[trofimus]

the church is not jacob. SO no, you can not say it is replacement, that is replacement theology.

Jacob and Esau typify two kinds of sinful humanity, spiritual and non-spiritual. Jacob’s desire for spiritual blessing is the distinction that divides spiritual from non-spiritual people.

Esau represents non-spiritual people with no destiny in Abrahamic promises (this world is their only inheritance); but Jacob represents spiritual people that have their destiny in the promise given to Abraham.

Taken from THE JACOB ALLEGORY, I do not know this page, but I used this because I cant say it so nicely in English.

I think Jacob represents the spiritual people, the people of the promise, the Church.

Esau represents today's carnal Israel.

Ungodliness is taken away from the Church.


I know, you want it to mean literal Jacob, you want words in the NT to mean the same as in the OT. But we know that the OT must be viewed spiritually. Its in shadows and only in Christ it is clear.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The sad reality is that there are much more Palestinian Christians than the Jewish Christians. The vast majority of Christians in Israel are foreigners.

So whom to really support...tough question.

How about support every one of them, Love every one of them, As God demands, Whether they are in sin or not?

 

[Spurgeoncy]

That is exactly what Paul says in Romans 9 EG

Esau represents unregenerate Israelite children of the flesh