Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Simple when persecution come say from Muslim, ask you deny Jesus or die and you chose deny, mean you kick Jesus out from you
That's simple? Do you have a chapter and verse that says we 'kick' Jesus from us?
Here is one that says He is not leaving...

Hebrews 13:5 (KJV) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,887
848
113
Check!


Check!


Check!


That belief must endure IF the believers wants to "reign with Him".

English Standard Version
if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Berean Study Bible
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

Berean Literal Bible
if we endure, we will also reign together with Him; if we will deny Him, He also will deny us;

King James Bible
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

v12a says those who endure will reign with Him.
v.12b says those who deny (don't endure) Him will be denied reigning with Him.

So this verse is about eternal reward. That's what enduring is all about. Certainly not about losing salvation if one loses their faith.
That's where we differ. Salvation is granted on the basis of the belief (faith), if faith fails, then salvation fails.

The only prerequisite is that belief for salvation, no belief then no salvation.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
That's simple? Do you have a chapter and verse that says we 'kick' Jesus from us?
Here is one that says He is not leaving...

Hebrews 13:5 (KJV) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Matt. 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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Matt. 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Jesus was making a comparison between two groups...

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 10:32-33)

Those who have received Jesus have not denied Him and those who deny Him have not received Him.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Jesus was making a comparison between two groups...

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 10:32-33)

Those who have received Jesus have not denied Him and those who deny Him have not received Him.
Some are ievehd than deny on persecution.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,887
848
113
Check!


Check!


Check!


That belief must endure IF the believers wants to "reign with Him".

English Standard Version
if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Berean Study Bible
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

Berean Literal Bible
if we endure, we will also reign together with Him; if we will deny Him, He also will deny us;

King James Bible
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

v12a says those who endure will reign with Him.
v.12b says those who deny (don't endure) Him will be denied reigning with Him.

So this verse is about eternal reward. That's what enduring is all about. Certainly not about losing salvation if one loses their faith.
If Jesus denies you then you are lost.
 
Oct 6, 2021
496
83
28
Yep, people think Paul contradicts Jesus teaching in Matt 25
Again, not speaking at you, but through you.
The sheep and goat parable, is a parable, but taught so that even the blind can see. It should be very clear, Jesus was teaching, Those who do not obey the commands, will not be saved. And those who do obey his commands...will be saved.
Why?
Because those who keep his commands, do so because they love Jesus....and they will feel love towards the recipients of those acts of love. Which are designed, to change the stony heart of the sinner...convert their heart of stone....that stony heart which causes them to sin.
How many times have you felt love, towards someone in need that you have helped? A complete stranger the Holy Spirit has put on your heart?
Maybe you didn't know that's where the command came from, or that... is was a command at all.
Now I could lather you all up in words, but that just creates an argument. So.....I want to issue a challenge to all who read this post...a challenge to prove, what I say is the Truth. Hopefully, you won't argue against your own heart.

Go buy yourself a $100 gift card, at a place like Walmart, a place where food and clothes are bought.
Ask God to direct you to someone who needs that gift card.
How will you know who God wants you to give this Gift Card?
You will know, because you will feel compassion for them, compassion for the one who is to receive this gift. You will feel this way, for the command will be written on your heart.

Once you give this gift, take no credit, else you will receive no reward. (Matthew 5:16) (Matthew 6:1)
Just tell them, God put them on your heart. And don't be surprised when they say, you have answered their prayers.
People...thats why God needs you to be servants here on Earth.
To answer prayers!!!
When someone prays for food, God doesn't put a knapsack full of food, onto the back of an angel.... and send him to earth.
No...he expects those who call themselves, his servants, to carry out his commands. He uses you and me, his servants, to answer these prayers. And if you don't do as he commands, he will find someone who will. Folks....Don't miss this opportunity, to serve him, for your reward may also be....an answered prayer.
....The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (James 5:16)

Folks...We are to serve him on earth as his servants, the angels, serve him in heaven...."Thy WILL be DONE, On Earth,... as it is in Heaven."

Now notice, how All of a sudden,... you feel a love for this stranger, a love you didn't feel before your Act of Righteousness. This feeling my friends, is the healing of your heart.
These Acts of Love... are also called Acts of Faith!!
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
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Yes you are save when you believe and stop save when you stop believe that is why Jesus say endure to the end will be save
If He did, He was just telling YOU to save yourself then. YOU have to endure. If that keeps you saved, then YOU are your own savior.

By your own admission, you are trusting in YOUR own enduring for YOUR salvation. Ain't gonna work out.

Jesus told us clearly that when a person becomes a believer, they possess eternal life in John 5:24. Or prove me wrong.
Jesus told us clearly that when a person receives eternal life, they shall never perish in John 10;28. Or prove me wrong.

Your view is antibiblical.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
if we endure, we
If we not endure and deny Him, He will deny us, mean not save

How you save if He deny you
No, what Jesus will deny is found in the first part of v.12. Those who endure WILL reign with Him, those who don't endure will be denied that privilege.

Reigning with Christ isn't salvation. It is a reward for enduring.

Your "understanding" of reward is quite flawed.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Where do you get the very silly notion that anyone can "kick Jesus out"?
Simple when persecution come say from Muslim, ask you deny Jesus or die and you chose deny, mean you kick Jesus out from you
If it is simple, it will be in the Bible. So where do you get your ideas from, since the Bible says NOTHING about what you believe.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
That's where we differ. Salvation is granted on the basis of the belief (faith), if faith fails, then salvation fails.
Here's the catch: where in the Bible is that taught clearly.

The only prerequisite is that belief for salvation, no belief then no salvation.
Tht is an opinion. Where is the Scripture that says so in plain language?
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
If Jesus denies you then you are lost.
Paul never said that. The context for 2 Tim 2:12b is found in v.12a. The subject is about "reigning with Christ". The requirement is to endure (in your faith). v.12b is the flip side of the coin.

Those who don't endure in the faith will be denied reigning with Christ.

There is nothing about losing salvation here, or anywhere else in the Bible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
FreeGrace2 said:
if we endure, we

No, what Jesus will deny is found in the first part of v.12. Those who endure WILL reign with Him, those who don't endure will be denied that privilege.

Reigning with Christ isn't salvation. It is a reward for enduring.

Your "understanding" of reward is quite flawed.
So you believe if Jesus deny you in front of His Father you still go to heaven?
To be sure give me a verse that say when you deny Jesus still go to heaven
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
Matthew 10:

32Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father in heaven. 33But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Again, not speaking at you, but through you.
The sheep and goat parable, is a parable, but taught so that even the blind can see. It should be very clear, Jesus was teaching, Those who do not obey the commands, will not be saved. And those who do obey his commands...will be saved.
Why?
Because those who keep his commands, do so because they love Jesus....and they will feel love towards the recipients of those acts of love. Which are designed, to change the stony heart of the sinner...convert their heart of stone....that stony heart which causes them to sin.
How many times have you felt love, towards someone in need that you have helped? A complete stranger the Holy Spirit has put on your heart?
Maybe you didn't know that's where the command came from, or that... is was a command at all.
Now I could lather you all up in words, but that just creates an argument. So.....I want to issue a challenge to all who read this post...a challenge to prove, what I say is the Truth. Hopefully, you won't argue against your own heart.

Go buy yourself a $100 gift card, at a place like Walmart, a place where food and clothes are bought.
Ask God to direct you to someone who needs that gift card.
How will you know who God wants you to give this Gift Card?
You will know, because you will feel compassion for them, compassion for the one who is to receive this gift. You will feel this way, for the command will be written on your heart.

Once you give this gift, take no credit, else you will receive no reward. (Matthew 5:16) (Matthew 6:1)
Just tell them, God put them on your heart. And don't be surprised when they say, you have answered their prayers.
People...thats why God needs you to be servants here on Earth.
To answer prayers!!!
When someone prays for food, God doesn't put a knapsack full of food, onto the back of an angel.... and send him to earth.
No...he expects those who call themselves, his servants, to carry out his commands. He uses you and me, his servants, to answer these prayers. And if you don't do as he commands, he will find someone who will. Folks....Don't miss this opportunity, to serve him, for your reward may also be....an answered prayer.
....The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (James 5:16)

Folks...We are to serve him on earth as his servants, the angels, serve him in heaven...."Thy WILL be DONE, On Earth,... as it is in Heaven."

Now notice, how All of a sudden,... you feel a love for this stranger, a love you didn't feel before your Act of Righteousness. This feeling my friends, is the healing of your heart.
These Acts of Love... are also called Acts of Faith!!
Seem to me jesus tell us that faith that saved bear the fruit of agape love
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
Luk 9:36:

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
If He did, He was just telling YOU to save yourself then. YOU have to endure. If that keeps you saved, then YOU are your own savior.

By your own admission, you are trusting in YOUR own enduring for YOUR salvation. Ain't gonna work out.

Jesus told us clearly that when a person becomes a believer, they possess eternal life in John 5:24. Or prove me wrong.
Jesus told us clearly that when a person receives eternal life, they shall never perish in John 10;28. Or prove me wrong.

Your view is antibiblical.
It imply that you believe to be save you only need to believe a second than fell free to deny sand still go to heaven am I correct?
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
Robert Bellarmine on justification: “Habakkuk 2:4 ‘the just shall live from faith’, is understood concerning living faith (for how can someone live from dead faith?). Yet, living faith, from the testimony of St. James chapter 2, is not faith alone, but faith with works; or (as Paul says to the Galatians in Chap. 5:6) faith working through charity.”

We are Saved by God's Grace through Faith that works by Charity. That's how we can reconcile Paul and James. God Bless.