Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Goliath]

I suggest you read these verses:
1 John 1-
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

So you mean John was ignorant of what Jesus taught??????

I think v.8 applies here.

There are two types of Christians, those have been born again and those who have yet to be adopted into the family.

John was teaching that to those who have not been adopted.
In (John 8:34-35) you can see the two types of Christian in the Family. Notice the slave…everyone who sins..Is not a permanent member of the family.

But there is still time!

 

[Goliath]

The Gospel is very clear that those who claim to have no sin are liars! 1 John 1:8–10: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

I understand…but hopefully someday you will discover I am not a liar.

 

[FreeGrace2]

When a person says he does not sin anymore, is he saying he doesn't sin at all, or is he saying he no longer practices sinning for pleasure anymore because he hates it?

Romans 7:14-25 (NASB)
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

From what Paul says in proper context, our saved inner man doesn't sin, while the fleshly outer man does.
I may not have the eloquence to explain it, but the Bible does plainly say it. So it must be true.

In addition, 1 John 1 clarifies about those who claim to be without sin.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Bible says the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus like a dove, not that the Holy Spirit looked like a dove. So because of this, this comparison, we have a dove representing the Holy Spirit.

I have no idea what that has to do with this conversation..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are free to believe whatever you like.

I will believe what John said.

I suggest you do the same. Because where you are. you are in serious trouble

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are two types of Christians, those have been born again and those who have yet to be adopted into the family.

The Bible says otherwise. There are only 2 kinds of people in humanity. The saved and the unsaved.

The saved are biblical Christians, or believers. The unsaved are NOT Christians, regardless of what they may claim, and unbelievers.

John was teaching that to those who have not been adopted.[/QJUOTE]
All believers in Christ are awaiting the adoption.

Rom 8;23 - 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

In (John 8:34-35) you can see the two types of Christian in the Family. Notice the slave…everyone who sins..Is not a permanent member of the family.

These verses don't say that.

 

[Goliath]

No I do not believe you. I believe as John said you are deceived.

1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

and jesus taught no such thing

You are correct. , that’s because Jesus was the Author of Salvation. And if you followed his instructions you would share in mine and Paul’s experience. This is the beautiful thing about Paul’s epistles, he was saved in the same manner we are saved. To my knowledge he is the only writer who shares our salvation experience. This is why Peter found his teachings hard to understand.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You are correct. , that’s because Jesus was the Author of Salvation. And if you followed his instructions you would share in mine and Paul’s experience. This is the beautiful thing about Paul’s epistles, he was saved in the same manner we are saved. To my knowledge he is the only writer who shares our salvation experience. This is why Peter found his teachings hard to understand.

If you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself. period.

I do share in paul's experience. There are things I do not want to do. that I do. there are think I want to do. I find a struggle to do. I have 2 things warring inside me..

paul was never sinless.

James told us to confess our sins to each other.

John said if we sin we have an advocate.. If we claim to be sinless we are Decieved..

if you think you are sinless. You believe you are perfect righteous. Jesus said NO ONE is good but God.. That includes you and me. We are NOT good..

what we are. are seen as good as the blood of Christ washes us clean..

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are correct. , that’s because Jesus was the Author of Salvation. And if you followed his instructions you would share in mine and Paul’s experience. This is the beautiful thing about Paul’s epistles, he was saved in the same manner we are saved. To my knowledge he is the only writer who shares our salvation experience. This is why Peter found his teachings hard to understand.

Could you explain "the manner we are saved"? For clarity. Thanks.

 

[Goliath]

The Bible says otherwise. There are only 2 kinds of people in humanity. The saved and the unsaved.

The saved are biblical Christians, or believers. The unsaved are NOT Christians, regardless of what they may claim, and unbelievers.

Actually there are three....as underscored below. The Ungodly...those who reject God. The righteous...those who have been born of God. And the sinner..,the Christian who has received the Holy Spirit, but hasn't overcome sin....because they follow a false doctrine...not the Holy Spirit.
For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
(1 Peter 4:17-18)

 

[Goliath]

If you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself. period.

I do share in paul's experience. There are things I do not want to do. that I do. there are think I want to do. I find a struggle to do. I have 2 things warring inside me..

paul was never sinless.

James told us to confess our sins to each other.

John said if we sin we have an advocate.. If we claim to be sinless we are Decieved..

if you think you are sinless. You believe you are perfect righteous. Jesus said NO ONE is good but God.. That includes you and me. We are NOT good..

what we are. are seen as good as the blood of Christ washes us clean..

Again...you can believe whatever you want, or you can try to prove me wrong by following the Holy Spirit for a month. If your life doesn't dramatically change...then you can call me a Liar. If you discover a change...continue down that path and see where it leads for yourself.

 

[Goliath]

Could you explain "the manner we are saved"? For clarity. Thanks.

Its all about Love, a Love which develops through a relationship with God. When you act like a Son of God, God will treat you like a Son....AKA..Under Grace!!
How do you act like a Son of God?
Jesus was the Son of God...and he didn't break any of Gods Commandments, so in that...we have a perfect example, of how to act like a Son of God.
How can we act like Jesus, when we were born into sin?
We can't....and this is why Jesus needed to die for our sins. Without his sacrifice, we would walk in darkness, because Unconfessed sin, Unforgiven sin, separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).
What does it mean to walk in darkness?
It means you are separated from the light of God. When we are in the light we will recognize sin, sin we do not see when we walk in darkness. When we keep Gods commandments, God will love us and treat us like we are his children. But it's impossible to know his commandments without being in his light.
How do we stay in the light?
When you sin, simply confess your sins Before God, in the manner in which Jesus prescribed in the Lords Prayer....where he taught us how to pray. When you do this, you receive instant forgiveness and cleansing, which keeps you in the light. (1 John 1) It's very, very important...that you understand the importance of confessing sin.
What are the Lords commands are they the Ten Commandments?
God commandments come through his Holy Spirit. His commandments are put into our minds and written on our hearts. With the Holy Spirit we have eyes that can see, and ears that can hear. When you are in Gods light you will be able to hear Gods commands...in your conscience. You must repent!! How can we turn from sin, if we don't recognize sin? Brother we won't if when we walk in darkness.
Out of time...but if you wish to continue??

In case anyone wants to know.....for many people their only contact with Gods Holy Spirit, is when they sin against their Body. That's why God punishes us when we commit a sin of a sexual nature.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
1 Corinthians 6:18

 

[Goliath]

Its all about Love, a Love which develops through a relationship with God. When you act like a Son of God, God will treat you like a Son....AKA..Under Grace!!
How do you act like a Son of God?
Jesus was the Son of God...and he didn't break any of Gods Commandments, so in that...we have a perfect example, of how to act like a Son of God.
How can we act like Jesus, when we were born into sin?
We can't....and this is why Jesus needed to die for our sins. Without his sacrifice, we would walk in darkness, because Unconfessed sin, Unforgiven sin, separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).
What does it mean to walk in darkness?
It means you are separated from the light of God. When we are in the light we will recognize sin, sin we do not see when we walk in darkness. When we keep Gods commandments, God will love us and treat us like we are his children. But it's impossible to know his commandments without being in his light.
How do we stay in the light?
When you sin, simply confess your sins Before God, in the manner in which Jesus prescribed in the Lords Prayer....where he taught us how to pray. When you do this, you receive instant forgiveness and cleansing, which keeps you in the light. (1 John 1) It's very, very important...that you understand the importance of confessing sin.
What are the Lords commands are they the Ten Commandments?
God commandments come through his Holy Spirit. His commandments are put into our minds and written on our hearts. With the Holy Spirit we have eyes that can see, and ears that can hear. When you are in Gods light you will be able to hear Gods commands...in your conscience. You must repent!! How can we turn from sin, if we don't recognize sin? Brother we won't if when we walk in darkness.
Out of time...but if you wish to continue??

In case anyone wants to know.....for many people their only contact with Gods Holy Spirit, is when they sin against their Body. That's why God punishes us when we commit a sin of a sexual nature.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
1 Corinthians 6:18

The bottom line…when you love God, more than sin…you will die to sin. And when you die to sin then you can be married to Christ.
Paul does a nice job explaining this in (Romans 7), using his marriage analogy. In it you can see what causes the death.
What causes the death?
It’s adultery!!
Now if sin is your master/husband, how do you commit adultery?
You do what is righteous.
What is righteous?
Doing what God wants you to do and not what your sin master wants you to do.

 

[Goliath]

If you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself. period.

I do share in paul's experience. There are things I do not want to do. that I do. there are think I want to do. I find a struggle to do. I have 2 things warring inside me..

paul was never sinless.

James told us to confess our sins to each other.

John said if we sin we have an advocate.. If we claim to be sinless we are Decieved..

if you think you are sinless. You believe you are perfect righteous. Jesus said NO ONE is good but God.. That includes you and me. We are NOT good..

what we are. are seen as good as the blood of Christ washes us clean..

You share somethings but not everything. If you sin, you obviously do not share in his death to sin.

When you have the Flu…how do you know the Flu virus is dead?
Is it not because all the signs which show you had the flu, are not longer being exhibited?

Many believe they have died to sin, but if this were the case….why do they still sin? Logic dictates it’s because sin is still alive…and the commission of sin, which is an exhibition of its life, is the proof it has not died.

But many people have too much pride to reach, what should be, a logical conclusion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible says otherwise. There are only 2 kinds of people in humanity. The saved and the unsaved.

The saved are biblical Christians, or believers. The unsaved are NOT Christians, regardless of what they may claim, and un

Actually there are three....as underscored below. The Ungodly...those who reject God. The righteous...those who have been born of God. And the sinner..,the Christian who has received the Holy Spirit, but hasn't overcome sin....because they follow a false doctrine...not the Holy Spirit.

We will disagree here. Everyone is a sinner, the saved and the unsaved. Rom 3:9,10, 23 all say so.

For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
(1 Peter 4:17-18)

Here we see the 2 kinds of people; "the saved" and "the unsaved" which Peter referred as "the ungodly and sinner". That's what unbelievers are.

btw, when the Bible speaks of the saved as "righteous", it ALWAYS means the IMPUTED righteousness of Christ, since all believers have been sealed IN Christ. This is called "union with Christ".

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you explain "the manner we are saved"? For clarity. Thanks.

Its all about Love, a Love which develops through a relationship with God. When you act like a Son of God, God will treat you like a Son....AKA..Under Grace!!
How do you act like a Son of God?
Jesus was the Son of God...and he didn't break any of Gods Commandments, so in that...we have a perfect example, of how to act like a Son of God.
How can we act like Jesus, when we were born into sin?
We can't....and this is why Jesus needed to die for our sins. Without his sacrifice, we would walk in darkness, because Unconfessed sin, Unforgiven sin, separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).
What does it mean to walk in darkness?
It means you are separated from the light of God. When we are in the light we will recognize sin, sin we do not see when we walk in darkness. When we keep Gods commandments, God will love us and treat us like we are his children. But it's impossible to know his commandments without being in his light.
How do we stay in the light?
When you sin, simply confess your sins Before God, in the manner in which Jesus prescribed in the Lords Prayer....where he taught us how to pray. When you do this, you receive instant forgiveness and cleansing, which keeps you in the light. (1 John 1) It's very, very important...that you understand the importance of confessing sin.
What are the Lords commands are they the Ten Commandments?
God commandments come through his Holy Spirit. His commandments are put into our minds and written on our hearts. With the Holy Spirit we have eyes that can see, and ears that can hear. When you are in Gods light you will be able to hear Gods commands...in your conscience. You must repent!! How can we turn from sin, if we don't recognize sin? Brother we won't if when we walk in darkness.
Out of time...but if you wish to continue??

In case anyone wants to know.....for many people their only contact with Gods Holy Spirit, is when they sin against their Body. That's why God punishes us when we commit a sin of a sexual nature.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.
1 Corinthians 6:18

Well, thanks for the clarity. We are very far apart in our theologies.

You think "love" is the manner in which we are saved. But you've shared NO verse that says this. In fact, in every verse where either salvation, or eternal life is mentioned along with the manner by which we receive them, it is believing or faith. In every verse.

Your your focus and understanding are misplaced.

And the rest of your post highly suggests that you think lifestyle is part of the manner in which we get saved. That is exactly what the Pharisees of Jesus' day thought as well. And Jesus really reamed them for it.

John 5-
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believenot.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. This specifically refers to belief in Jesus as the Savior.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Again...you can believe whatever you want, or you can try to prove me wrong by following the Holy Spirit for a month. If your life doesn't dramatically change...then you can call me a Liar. If you discover a change...continue down that path and see where it leads for yourself.

We are talking about sinless perfection.

Not spiritual maturity.

Please keep to the topic..

again, I will believe what John said, If WE claim you are without sin, WE are deceived. Period.

so you must determine if you are part of the WE or not.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You share somethings but not everything. If you sin, you obviously do not share in his death to sin.

When you have the Flu…how do you know the Flu virus is dead?
Is it not because all the signs which show you had the flu, are not longer being exhibited?

Many believe they have died to sin, but if this were the case….why do they still sin? Logic dictates it’s because sin is still alive…and the commission of sin, which is an exhibition of its life, is the proof it has not died.

But many people have too much pride to reach, what should be, a logical conclusion.

Once again.

John said if WE say we have no sin (present tense) we are decieved.

John said when we sin, we have an advocate (if we could be sinless, this is nonsensical)

James tells us to confess our sins to one another. This is nonsensical if we could be sinless.

If you are sinless. You have arrived. You have no further need to run the race nore do you need Gods help. you have arrived.

On the other hand, if like the pharisee, you think you have no sin. You are not only decieved as John said, You are unable to Grow. The HS can not work in you. because you deny the sin he is accusing you of. and you are prety much helpless in the means of growth. You will remain stagnant and appear as proud person who pumps their chest praising God they arw not like the sinner.

 

[Goliath]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible says otherwise. There are only 2 kinds of people in humanity. The saved and the unsaved.

The saved are biblical Christians, or believers. The unsaved are NOT Christians, regardless of what they may claim, and un

We will disagree here. Everyone is a sinner, the saved and the unsaved. Rom 3:9,10, 23 all say so.


Here we see the 2 kinds of people; "the saved" and "the unsaved" which Peter referred as "the ungodly and sinner". That's what unbelievers are.

btw, when the Bible speaks of the saved as "righteous", it ALWAYS means the IMPUTED righteousness of Christ, since all believers have been sealed IN Christ. This is called "union with Christ".

To be clear...You believe everyone who says they believe Jesus is the Son of God..is saved?

 

[Goliath]

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, thanks for the clarity. We are very far apart in our theologies.

I agree...mine comes from the teaching of Jesus Christ through his Holy Spirit.

FreeGrace2 said:
You think "love" is the manner in which we are saved. But you've shared NO verse that says this. In fact, in every verse where either salvation, or eternal life is mentioned along with the manner by which we receive them, it is believing or faith. In every verse.

From the Author of Salvation....
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
(Luke 10:25-28)
If you disagree, your disagreement is not only with me...but with the Lords teachings.

FreeGrace2 said:
And the rest of your post highly suggests that you think lifestyle is part of the manner in which we get saved. That is exactly what the Pharisees of Jesus' day thought as well. And Jesus really reamed them for it.

Yes I do, and here are two witnesses who agrees with me. Would you like to see more?
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. (Revelation 20:12)
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
(1 Peter 4:6)