Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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English is not my first language but I know john 15:6 mean no fruit thrown into fire mean.
OK, so then, you do have a problem with English idioms, metaphors and figures of speech.

Fire idiom word it mean hell
Really?

1 Cor 3:14,15
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

If so, then what does v.15 mean?
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
They were very proud that they were God's CHOSEN people. The idea that God would set aside or discard His people was shocki
Do you mean God will discard His peple?
No, the Bible means that God will NOT use His chosen people for service, which was what they were so proud of.

Discard, mean trowned into fire or hell
Only because that's what you decided to accept.

With YOUR opinion here, you can't possibly believe the teaching of Jesus about eternal security.

It's been explained to you enough so that you don't have any excuse for not understanding eternal security.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Sorry, but this sentence doesn't make sense. Could you please re-phrase or check spelling or whateve
Read the context
Why you ask me to also address Ephesians along with john 15?
Where did I do that? And your sentence isn't understandable as written.

You expect john 15 contradict Ephesians?
Why would I do that?

Not going to happen
Of course not.

Salvation by grace doesn't mean salvation not produce fruits
What you seem to fail to comprehend is that salvation doesn't GUARANTEE fruit. That is WHY the Bible commands believers to produce fruit.

Yes the fruit not by you, it is by Jesus in you
Only when filled with the Holy Spirit. Have you heard of the Holy Spirit? I cannot assume anything here.

No fruit mean no Jesus mean no faith mean not save
This opinion fails to understand the Bible.

No fruit means a lazy child of God. Who will be disciplined for it. But once a child, ALWAYS a child. Period.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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OK, so then, you do have a problem with English idioms, metaphors and figures of speech.


Really?

1 Cor 3:14,15
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

If so, then what does v.15 mean?
In 1 cor talking about the builder not the building
The builder escape from flame, mean escape from hell
So flame in this verse idiom from hell

In john 15 the branch trown into fire not escape as in 1 cor
Can you tell the different between the word escape and trown into?
Fire = flame= hell

Escape >< trown into
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No fruit means a lazy child of God. Who will be disciplined for it. But once a child, ALWAYS a child. Period.
It seem you not agree with jesus
Jesus say no fruit will be cut and trown into fire
Fire idiom of hell

No fruit trown to hell, that Jesus say
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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In 1 cor talking about the builder not the building
The builder escape from flame, mean escape from hell
So flame in this verse idiom from hell
Nope. The Bible uses the word "fire" to refer to God's evaluation of the believer. Just as fire "purifies" gold, so God's evaluation, including His discipline, motivates His children to acceptable service.

In john 15 the branch trown into fire not escape as in 1 cor
Can you tell the different between the word escape and trown into?
Fire = flame= hell

Escape >< trown into
Your opinions are simply wrong. You have been taught WRONG.

And I will prove it here and now.

Please answer these short and simple questions. This will demonstrate your comprehension of Scripture.

1. Does a believer possess eternal life?
2. Does a believer possess eternal life based on fruit or belief in Christ?
3. Can a believer EVER perish?
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
What you seem to fail to comprehend is that salvation doesn't GUARANTEE fruit. That is WHY the Bible commands believers to produce fruit.
What is your definition of fruit for this context?
Exactly what you think it refers to. Acceptable works from the believer.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
No fruit means a lazy child of God. Who will be disciplined for it. But once a child, ALWAYS a child. Period.
It seem you not agree with jesus
That would be YOU.

Jesus say no fruit will be cut and trown into fire
Fire idiom of hell
Jesus COULDN'T have meant that. Because, if He did, then He would have contradicted Himself.

Do you believe that Jesus is capable of contradicting Himself? I sure don't.

No fruit trown to hell, that Jesus say
Nope. Jesus NEVER contradicted Himself.

Jesus taught that believers possess eternal life in Johhn 5:24.
Jesus taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

Please answer: what part of NEVER PERISH do you not understand? I would be more than happy to help you understand.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Nope. The Bible uses the word "fire" to refer to God's evaluation of the believer. Just as fire "purifies" gold, so God's evaluation, including His discipline, motivates His children to acceptable service.


Your opinions are simply wrong. You have been taught WRONG.

And I will prove it here and now.

Please answer these short and simple questions. This will demonstrate your comprehension of Scripture.

1. Does a believer possess eternal life?
2. Does a believer possess eternal life based on fruit or belief in Christ?
3. Can a believer EVER perish?
1 yes
2 base on believe and Christ on him will bear fruit
3 no as long as he keep believe, stop believe stop save
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No fruit means a lazy child of God. Who will be disciplined for it. But once a child, ALWAYS a child. Period.
According to Jesus if you abide in Him you will bear fruits
It mean no fruits = you not abide in Him= no Jesus in you= trown into fire
Ok my wife ask me to buy oil and change her cars oil I do respon more when I am done
 

Goliath

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
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Could you explain what you mean by our "faith requires a commitment of 24/7 works"? To gain or maintain salvation, or what?


Eph 2:8,9 answers that question with clear words. NO.
Ask inquisitor he said it
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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I asked:
Your opinions are simply wrong. You have been taught WRONG.

And I will prove it here and now.

Please answer these short and simple questions. This will demonstrate your comprehension of Scripture.

1. Does a believer possess eternal life?
2. Does a believer possess eternal life based on fruit or belief in Christ?
3. Can a believer EVER perish?
2 base on believe and Christ on him will bear fruit
What you DON'T have is any evidence or support from Scripture about your "faith plus works" salvation system.

3 no as long as he keep believe, stop believe stop save
Same here. You DON'T have any verses that teach this.

Anyway, thanks for your answers. According to Jesus, He disagrees with your failed understanding of what He taught.

He taught in John 5:24 that believers possess eternal life.
He taught in John 5:24 that believers have passed from (spiritual) death to (eternal) life.
He taught in John 10:28 that those who have been given eternal life shall never perish.

There is NOTHING IN EITHER verse about fruit.

You have been deceived by whoever has been teaching you.

I'm really amazed that you aren't "connecting the dots" here. From Jn 5:24 eternal life is possessed by believers. That means they possess eternal life WHEN they believe, because at the MOMENT of saving faith, they ARE believers, and thus, possess eternal life.

Then, from Jn 10:28 Jesus said that those He gives eternal life (Jn 5:24 - WHEN the believe) they shall never perish.

So, your view proves that you do NOT believe what Jesus taught in John 10:28.

Fruit is commanded of believers, those who are already saved. That is what Jesus taught in John 15. And by saying "abide in Me and I will abide in you", Jesus was teaching His disciples they can't bear fruit UNLESS they are in fellowship with Him.

And John clarified how to be in fellowship with the Lord in 1 John 1.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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No Jesus not capable of lie He do what He say no fruit trown into fire that what he say
You change His word
No, I've explained His Word, but you aren't listening. The very erroneous teaching that you have been receiving is getting in the way of your understanding truth.

And, bottom line again: You simply cannot believe Johbn 10:28 if you continue to believe what you do.

People are given eternal life WHEN they believe. And Jesus said in the clearest of words that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

And NO MENTION of fruit.

This proves that you are NOT understanding John 15 correctly.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
No fruit means a lazy child of God. Who will be disciplined for it. But once a child, ALWAYS a child. Period.
According to Jesus if you abide in Him you will bear fruits
Exactly! And abiding is a command. Does Jesus command people to save themselves? Of course not.

This is a command to be in fellowship with Him. Far too many believers have NO IDEA what that means, unfortunately.

It means this: when a believer sins, that breaks fellowship with the Lord. Psa 66:18 - If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

So none of your prayers will be heard when you've sinned and haven't confessed your sins for forgiveness and cleansing.

Once back in fellowship, the believer is prepared for bearing fruit. But only "fruit that lasts". This means that in addition to being in fellowship, through confession of known sins, the believer must obey the command to be "filled with the Spirit". Since this is a command, do you know HOW to be filled? And the verse that commands this?

It mean no fruits = you not abide in Him= no Jesus in you= trown into fire
At least read what I'm explaining to you. If you have questions, please ask.

Ok my wife ask me to buy oil and change her cars oil I do respon more when I am done
?? I don't understand.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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India
When Mat 24:13 is quoted, OSASers generally say that is specific to the tribulation, and that it is referring only to physical death. A careful reading of the Gospel of Matthew shows otherwise. For e.g. the Lord said something almost identical 14 chapters earlier, to His 12 Apostles, and the context here was clearly their own physical death; He was teaching them that, if they persevere to the end in the Faith, they will be saved. Their bodies indeed would be killed, but their souls would be saved, and for this His Grace to endure was needed.

Mat 10:

"18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Not, "he who endures to the end will" AVOID DEATH, because the Lord clearly said "brother will deliver brother up to DEATH".

But rather "he who endures to the end will be saved" i.e. will receive Final Salvation and go to Heaven. The Gospel is clear.

God Bless.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
6,474
850
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When Mat 24:13 is quoted, OSASers generally say that is specific to the tribulation, and that it is referring only to physical death. A careful reading of the Gospel of Matthew shows otherwise. For e.g. the Lord said something almost identical 14 chapters earlier, to His 12 Apostles, and the context here was clearly their own physical death; He was teaching them that, if they persevere to the end in the Faith, they will be saved. Their bodies indeed would be killed, but their souls would be saved, and for this His Grace to endure was needed.

Mat 10:

"18 You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

Not, "he who endures to the end will" AVOID DEATH, because the Lord clearly said "brother will deliver brother up to DEATH".

But rather "he who endures to the end will be saved" i.e. will receive Final Salvation and go to Heaven. The Gospel is clear.

God Bless.
You missed this verse Matt 10:23 - 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Do you understand what "before the Son of Man comes" refers to? Clearly, the Tribulation.

That is when Jesus Christ returns to earth at the Second Advent.