Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Jesus say if you remain in Him or have faith in Him you will bear much fruit

How much fruit
How many pound
I don't know, Jesus don't say how many pound

What is fruit in this context?

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
Is that translate to helping the poor?
May be if you have, in my situation, some time I want to help the needy
In recent Indonesian news there is a ex Muslim Christian preacher being persecuted by Muslim because they accused as betray his old religion
His name is Mohammad kv
He was preacher and for living he do mechanic
I want to help his family but I myself low income
So a lot of rich Christian help him

In this case I allready bear fruit in my heart because I have my sympathy and love him
God honnour your heart though you not rich enough to translate into action
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Is helping the poor mean fruit of Holy Spritz.
Yes and no

Yes if Jesus in your heart and you have money, when you see the poor Jesus in you will move you to help that poor, you have love them, but though you love them you don't have the money to help them your love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit
So the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, not always mean helping hand
As long as you fell sympathy to the needy wether you able to help or not you are bear fruit.

You are not bear fruit if
You have the money but not help the needy
Or you help the needy but drive by show up, not by love
 
Jan 31, 2021
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John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Jesus say if you remain in Him or have faith in Him you will bear much fruit
Jesus neither said that or meant that. He SAID "abide in Me and I will abide in you". But you don't have any idea what that means.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Is helping the poor mean fruit of Holy Spritz.
Yes and no
No and no.

First "no". Unbelievers help the poor a lot. And none of them have the Holy Spirit in them. They are doing only "human good works", which is offensive to God. Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Red words are works done from our human nature, therefore human good.
Blue words literally mean in the Hebrew "used menstrual rags".

So, human good is VERY offensive to God.

Second "no". There is no such thing as "Holy Spritz". Believers have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. Those who are in fellowship and ask God for the filling of the Spirit are obeying the command to be filled with the Spirit.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No, that won't work, because you were the first to mention 'fruit' in post #1206.
Again, How much fruit until you know God is satisfied?
As far as I know Jesus not mention how much fruit to satisfied Him
Jesus only say if you abide in Him as far as I know you will bear fruit no fruit trown into fire
As far as I know fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
As long as you love the needy and fellow man you bear the fruit
You may don't help the needy with your money because you have low income like me but as long as you love them you are bear fruit. Fruit is love, abstract, it may manifest in from of helping to the needy if you have it, or only pray as long as you do it out of Jesus love, it is fruit
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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No and no.

First "no". Unbelievers help the poor a lot. And none of them have the Holy Spirit in them. They are doing only "human good works", which is offensive to God. Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Red words are works done from our human nature, therefore human good.
Blue words literally mean in the Hebrew "used menstrual rags".

So, human good is VERY offensive to God.

Second "no". There is no such thing as "Holy Spritz". Believers have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. Those who are in fellowship and ask God for the filling of the Spirit are obeying the command to be filled with the Spirit.
So for believer, what is your definition of fruit mention in john 15
 

LoveBrokeThru

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
141
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1. ) Is Salvation = God saving you, with the blood and death of Jesus The Christ, and the proof is that you are born again and have eternal life?

or,

2.) Is Salvation, you saying you believe that......., yet you do not Trust in Christ to keep you saved, and your entire religious Theology is..>"im doing this, and im doing that, and lets add some commandment keeping, and some enduring to the end, and some Moses Law, and let me be sure to confess all my sin each week, and repent a lot,.


So, Which ISN'T Salvation, or actual, literal FAITH, in Christ.

Its #2

Notice these...

Salvation is God saving you, and keeping you saved.

Religion is you trying to do it without Christ., = Unbelievers

"fallen from Grace" is a Christian who is trying to perform that Religion.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,363
113
1. ) Is Salvation = God saving you, with the blood and death of Jesus The Christ, and the proof is that you are born again and have eternal life?

or,

2.) Is Salvation, you saying you believe that......., yet you do not Trust in Christ to keep you saved, and your entire religious Theology is..>"im doing this, and im doing that, and lets add some commandment keeping, and some enduring to the end, and some Moses Law, and let me be sure to confess all my sin each week, and repent a lot,.


So, Which ISN'T Salvation, or actual, literal FAITH, in Christ.

Its #2

Notice these...

Salvation is God saving you, and keeping you saved.

Religion is you trying to do it without Christ., = Unbelievers

"fallen from Grace" is a Christian who is trying to perform that Religion.
Let trust Jesus how to be save

1. John 3:16
Mean trust or believe in Him/mean believe ZHis teaching

Can we believe only an hour and refused to believe and still save?

Than we have to read what Jesus say concerning believe but stop believe
Matt 24:13
It seem to be save need to endure

3 is believ mean bear fruit?

In John 15 Jesus say if you abide in me you will bear fruit
What is fruit
Galatians 5
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
Love is in our heart, other may not see your love
But if you have extra money, Jesus love in you may translate into helping the poor
Let say we don't help the poor because we don't have extra money but we love them and pray for them it is consider fruit
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
903
251
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Thank you for your explanation.
But, How do you reconcile your definition of faith, with Works?
We are saved by Grace, through faith, and your faith requires a commitment of 24/7 works.
Do you now believe works plays a role in our salvation?
I will try and clarify what I am saying.

We can only ever be saved by the blood of Christ.

Without the death of Jesus on the cross redemption would be impossible.

That is why the word, 'saved', occurs often when the death of Jesus is mentioned.

Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

So will works save someone?

1 Corinthians 3:15
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.

Even if an apostle warns against sin or a dead faith, neither holiness or works can save.

Obviously, no one can be saved other than by grace through faith in Jesus.

We preach Christ crucified for salvation only.

Even if an apostle warns against sin or even a dead faith, neither holiness or works can save anyone.
 
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So for believer, what is your definition of fruit mention in john 15
I've already answered your question. Why are you repeating yourself?

And why do you continue to reject John 10:28 where Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,519
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As far as I know Jesus not mention how much fruit to satisfied Him
Jesus only say if you abide in Him as far as I know you will bear fruit no fruit trown into fire
As far as I know fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
As long as you love the needy and fellow man you bear the fruit
You may don't help the needy with your money because you have low income like me but as long as you love them you are bear fruit. Fruit is love, abstract, it may manifest in from of helping to the needy if you have it, or only pray as long as you do it out of Jesus love, it is fruit
As far as I know you are running on the ‘Do More’ treadmill and will never have peace until you rest in Him and His perfect work done in your stead. Selah.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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I've already answered your question. Why are you repeating yourself?

And why do you continue to reject John 10:28 where Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?
I've already answered your question. Why are you repeating yourself?

And why do you continue to reject John 10:28 where Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish?
Than up to you
To me I rather believe in Jesus anout salvation
Must have a faith
Than faith in Him teaching mean abide in Him and He in me will,bear fruit
No fruit, cut of and trowned into fire exactly as Jesus say
Again upt to you, agree with Jesus in john 15 or believe in man made doctrine
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I don't understand this.

To me I rather believe in Jesus anout salvation
Do you mean rather than His teaching about eternal security??

Must have a faith
Than faith in Him teaching mean abide in Him and He in me will,bear fruit
No fruit, cut of and trowned into fire exactly as Jesus say
Again upt to you, agree with Jesus in john 15 or believe in man made doctrine
Well, yes, Jesus is fully man. And He did teach eternal security in John 10:28.

Are you just not understanding the verse, or what? I mean, are you really just rejecting what He said?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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I don't understand this.


Do you mean rather than His teaching about eternal security??


Well, yes, Jesus is fully man. And He did teach eternal security in John 10:28.

Are you just not understanding the verse, or what? I mean, are you really just rejecting what He said?
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

To me, I must read start from 27
Jesus sheep hear His voice and follow Him
To me follow Him mean
Believe in His teaching include about no fruit will trown into fire
Include His teaching about enduring to the end
Not hear His teaching mean not save
Seem to me you believe as long as you believe that Jesus is God than killing,and murder still save because salvation is not by work

To me salvation by faith but john 15 about bear fruit is product of salvation
 
May 22, 2020
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As far as I know you are running on the ‘Do More’ treadmill and will never have peace until you rest in Him and His perfect work done in your stead. Selah.
I sense you may be miss reading the Bible. It says...faith without works is dead.

Don't allow the ...new age religion...types to miss lead you. We have work to do for Christ and it is included here for the sincere Christian.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,363
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As far as I know you are running on the ‘Do More’ treadmill and will never have peace until you rest in Him and His perfect work done in your stead. Selah.
As far as I know you need to believe a second than deny Jesus and still save because OSAS
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
903
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Is Paul speaking of Gentiles who had never or had not yet converted to Judaism and became "spiritual Jews"? Sure he is!
If I am not at liberty to do anything, then I am not at liberty to break the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath. If salvation in fact grants me liberty ("license") to break the Ten Commandments, it's exactly what I've been saying it is: a OSAS License to Sin.
Incorrect again.

Paul is addressing the Jews in chapter two of Romans.

Romans 2:17
But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the Law and boast in God.

Your not a direct descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

No one said you have a license to kidnap, get drunk, or any other sin.

Gentiles are not under the law, does that then mean Gentiles can sin?

Of course not.

There is a an ocean of difference between being under the law for righteousness, and not being under the law for righteousness.

Trying to obey the law is a work of the flesh, an act of the human will. The law only condemns you, it cannot save anyone.

The scripture does not say you are saved by Jesus plus the law. The scripture says the opposite.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
903
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I sense you may be miss reading the Bible. It says...faith without works is dead.

Don't allow the ...new age religion...types to miss lead you. We have work to do for Christ and it is included here for the sincere Christian.
You can have a dead faith but works cannot save you.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
903
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The use of "fulfilling" and "fulfillment" doesn't change the sentiment - there is a law to be fulfilled by Christians and that is the Ten Commandments, which first four we will fulfill if we love God, and the last six we will fulfill if we love our neighbor. If we love God, we'll keep the first four, and if we love our neighbor, the last six.

Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law, but fulfill, or "to keep" it, not do away with it. Otherwise, we distort Jesus' words into perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements there could ever by: "Think not I am come to destroy the law and the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to do away with". Makes Jesus as confused as the most confused individual on the planet: a white Rastafarian. ;)
As I said previously, the law grants the knowledge of sin only. Whether you obey some laws and disobey others, it matters not, you are lost anyway. Let's say you achieved a 50% success rate in the law, your still lost.

Your salvation is a free gift and you do not earn it, by any attempted obedience to the law.

Are you saying that salvation is not a free gift?