Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
492
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You do realize the Catholics CHANGED the Ten Commandments, right? That upon which they place emphasis are "the doctrines of men", the teaching of which which Jesus called "vain worship".

Are you aware they make it their boast that it is THEY who changed Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day, and mock "Protestants" who claim to go by the Bible only, yet can't find a shred of evidence that God changed the day?

www.romeschallenge.com

All honest scholars admit Sunday keeping is TRADITION, not Scripture, as can be seen in all the writings of the founders of the major Christian denominations. Jesus said we "make the law of God of none effect by YOUR tradition". That's why I PLACE MY EMPHASIS on Sabbath, because it's under attack either deliberately or ignorantly by those who claim to go by the Bible but are following tradition - and when any Biblical truth is under attack, Jesus is under attack because He is the "Word of God".
Do you deny that the Catholics identified the ten commandments as moral law?

Whether the Catholics changed the law or not is not relevant.

The Catholics, the Reformers, and your church, all follow the same tradition, the ten commandments.

I cannot tell these churches apart from one another.

You place emphasis on the law!

Placing an extra special emphasis on any law is still an emphasis on the law.

You claim the law is abolished and at the same time, say that the law is eternal?

What a confusing and distorted interpretation of the scripture.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,525
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As I said previously, the law grants the knowledge of sin only. Whether you obey some laws and disobey others, it matters not, you are lost anyway. Let's say you achieved a 50% success rate in the law, your still lost.

Your salvation is a free gift and you do not earn it, by any attempted obedience to the law.

Are you saying that salvation is not a free gift?
Let me in
Say I am billioner
I announce who ever come to my house get free car

A come and get free car
B not come and expect get free car, B think because free why need to vome
And B get nothing

Free gift with the requirement
The requirement is believe in His teaching
Abide in Him
Good work is only product of faith
In my analogy, a gif of a car after trust and follow his rule
You don't need to work for a years to get a car, just come to me
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,436
3,542
113
I sense you may be miss reading the Bible. It says...faith without works is dead.

Don't allow the ...new age religion...types to miss lead you. We have work to do for Christ and it is included here for the sincere Christian.
Perhaps you need to reread your Bible...

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:5)
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
601
102
43
Here are some of the shocking (to me) findings in the poll (2020) cited below...

"A majority of Americans, a new survey finds, no longer believe that Jesus Christ is the way to eternal salvation. Faith (generally) and good works, they say, will do the trick "

"Equally as startling, it was found that a majority of people who describe themselves as Christian (52%) believe that a person can gain eternal salvation by “being or doing good.” That includes close to half of all adults associated with Pentecostal (46%), mainline Protestant (44%), and evangelical (41%) churches. As expected, a much larger share of Catholics (70%) embrace that point of view."

This salvation-can-be-earned perspective, Barna says, fits well with other widely held views identified in the American Worldview Inventory 2020 that are at odds with biblical teaching.
Those have included:


• There is no absolute moral truth (58%)
• Basis of truth are factors or sources other than God (58%)
• Right/wrong determined by factors other than the Bible (77%)
• The Bible is not the authoritative and true word of God (59%)
• People are basically good (69%)

"“If you look at some of the dominant elements in the American mind and heart today, as illuminated by the Inventory, most people believe that the purpose of life is feeling good about yourself,” Barna says. “Most people contend that all faiths are of equal value, that entry into God’s eternal presence is determined by one’s personal means of choice and that there are no absolutes to guide or grow us morally.”

more at: https://outreachmagazine.com/resour...s-believe-works-are-the-key-to-salvation.html

No wonder this country is in the mess it's in.
The christian world we living in today doesn’t seem to understand what type of works this is. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. It's sad to believe people don't have to change and become righteous, just because Jesus died on the cross and brought grace. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. What did Jesus say in John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Let’s see who else you have to love, Jesus says in Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; People complain about the way the world is and won’t change themselves, to do the will of God. Pay attention to what Jesus says in Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. And that sword is the Word of God.

Take a copy of this and pass it around and look at people faces, because they have to clean themselves up. It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday.

Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded you to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and you deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday”. There's no other day to go to church on, but what's written in the Bible. So people have been taught to do the things thats not written in the Bible and to use the Bible to justify it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,436
3,542
113
Let me in
Say I am billioner
I announce who ever come to my house get free car

A come and get free car
B not come and expect get free car, B think because free why need to vome
And B get nothing

Free gift with the requirement
The requirement is believe in His teaching
Abide in Him
Good work is only product of faith
In my analogy, a gif of a car after trust and follow his rule
You don't need to work for a years to get a car, just come to me
Speaking of free...

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(Rom 5:15-18)

But go ahead and continue with your false Gospel. Just heed Paul's warning...

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:8-9)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,436
3,542
113
The Lord God commanded you to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy
I believe we keep the Sabbath commandment when we cease from our works and rest in His work.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. (Heb 4:1-3)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,525
1,316
113
Speaking of free...

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(Rom 5:15-18)

But go ahead and continue with your false Gospel. Just heed Paul's warning...

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:8-9)
You are free to say what ever you want. Talk are free but Jesus gospel that say no fruit trown into fire will not change
Jesus never lie, and up to you to change the gospel and up to me to believe Jesus gospel
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,436
3,542
113
You are free to say what ever you want. Talk are free but Jesus gospel that say no fruit trown into fire will not change
Jesus never lie, and up to you to change the gospel and up to me to believe Jesus gospel
Good, I hope you realize Jesus commissioned Paul with the Gospel. Even Peter called Paul’s writings Scripture.

Acts 9:15 KJV
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


You are skating on thin ice with your Gospel of works.
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
492
108
43
The christian world we living in today doesn’t seem to understand what type of works this is. It’s starts off with repentance, that’s one of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. It's sad to believe people don't have to change and become righteous, just because Jesus died on the cross and brought grace. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. What did Jesus say in John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Let’s see who else you have to love, Jesus says in Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; People complain about the way the world is and won’t change themselves, to do the will of God. Pay attention to what Jesus says in Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. And that sword is the Word of God.

Take a copy of this and pass it around and look at people faces, because they have to clean themselves up. It’s easy for people to say how much they love the Lord, they may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday.

Paul said in (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, most people are talking about how they know God with their lips, but by they works they are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded you to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and you deny him to his face by saying “I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday”. There's no other day to go to church on, but what's written in the Bible. So people have been taught to do the things thats not written in the Bible and to use the Bible to justify it.
Are you teaching Jesus plus the law?
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
492
108
43
Let me in
Say I am billioner
I announce who ever come to my house get free car

A come and get free car
B not come and expect get free car, B think because free why need to vome
And B get nothing

Free gift with the requirement
The requirement is believe in His teaching
Abide in Him
Good work is only product of faith
In my analogy, a gif of a car after trust and follow his rule
You don't need to work for a years to get a car, just come to me
That is correct.

Salvation is always a free gift granted to those that believe in Jesus.

Only through the blood of Christ are we reconciled to the Father. People just do not understand, the fundamental reason for our salvation. We are saved, only ever, by grace through faith.

Christ comes first and last in everything to do with our salvation.

The law cannot save anyone.

Works cannot save anyone.

No act of repentance has ever saved anyone.

There was only one name that we confess, Jesus Christ.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,525
1,316
113
Good, I hope you realize Jesus commissioned Paul with the Gospel. Even Peter called Paul’s writings Scripture.

Acts 9:15 KJV
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


You are skating on thin ice with your Gospel of works.
Hmm
At least I know what is your godpel
Murder, deny Jesus not make you lose your salvation
I believe salvation by faith, but I also believe faith that save never alone, it will bear the fruit
I believe when Jesus say no fruit trown into fire
You don't believe what He say don't you?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,525
1,316
113
That is correct.

Salvation is always a free gift granted to those that believe in Jesus.

Only through the blood of Christ are we reconciled to the Father. People just do not understand, the fundamental reason for our salvation. We are saved, only ever, by grace through faith.

Christ comes first and last in everything to do with our salvation.

The law cannot save anyone.

Works cannot save anyone.

No act of repentance has ever saved anyone.

There was only one name that we confess, Jesus Christ.
But I agree with Martin Luther
We save by faith alone but faith that save never alone

Faith will bear the fruit
And the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, loving work
When Jesus in you, He will change you become more and more like Him
Not His physical handsomeness but His love
Your love become like His love

Read how Jesus decide who go to heaven who go to hell
Seem jesus saved by work
The right go to heaven because feed and love the needy
Because faith that save bear the fruit



Matthew 25

King James Version



25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

Goliath

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
335
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28
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Many people miss the..."will be"...part of this statement. Many believe this proves instant salvation, salvation which requires nothing from the believer. Folks like Billy Graham, fooled millions into believing they were saved by doing this very thing.

"Will Be",....does this denote a future event, or a current one?
Many people, like Billy Graham, when reading this verse, read it as if it were written in this way...
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead....you are saved.

But it doesn't say that,...does it?
The other problem with using the verse in this manner, is this. If we were saved, when We, call upon the name of the Lord, We could save ourselves, since We are the ones,....calling on the name of the Lord.
So what does Paul mean when he says this?
He means, Everyone who calls Jesus, 'Lord, will be saved.

But there is more to this verse, the back story, a back story Billy didn't give, because he didn't found his salvation teachings on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
. ....“And why call ye Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not the things which I say?
(Luke 6:46)
So,....according to Jesus Christ...Only those who do what he says...what he commands them to do,...can call him 'Lord.

So who do you believe, Jesus or Billy?
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,845
2,889
113
Many people miss the..."will be"...part of this statement. Many believe this proves instant salvation, salvation which requires nothing from the believer. Folks like Billy Graham, fooled millions into believing they were saved by doing this very thing.

"Will Be",....does this denote a future event, or a current one?
Many people, like Billy Graham, when reading this verse, read it as if it were written in this way...
"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead....you are saved.

But it doesn't say that,...does it?
The other problem with using the verse in this manner, is this. If we were saved, when We, call upon the name of the Lord, We could save ourselves, since We are the ones,....calling on the name of the Lord.
So what does Paul mean when he says this?
He means, Everyone who calls Jesus, 'Lord, will be saved.

But there is more to this verse, the back story, a back story Billy didn't give, because he didn't found his salvation teachings on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
. ....“And why call ye Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not the things which I say?
(Luke 6:46)
So,....according to Jesus Christ...Only those who do what he says...what he commands them to do,...can call him 'Lord.

So who do you believe, Jesus or Billy?
In my opinion, in a sense we can do something to be instrumental in saving ourselves.

I remember years ago when I first went to church and they, of course, talked about Jesus and everything. I thought to myself "I really want to believe this." I prayed and told God how I felt, but I knew in my heart it just didn't make sense to me. I rejected the gospel and everything about it for a time; not maliciously, it just didn't make logical sense to me.

I don't know when, or how, but at some point I believed the gospel. I don't know if it was sheer will power to believe in it, or I was miraculously converted, or what. When I was sure I was a believer I got water baptized. I'm inclined to think I played a key role in my salvation because I am not a puppet being controlled.

Jesus said that believing in Him is a work that God has assigned to us. In my experience, that's true.

John 6:29 KJV
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So in a sense we can help save ourselves by meetings the prerequisite for being saved. In another sense, we cannot save ourselves because the conditions necessary for salvation are created by God and God is the one who administers the actual saving.

And if you have worked to believe in Jesus then you did something Jesus said to do which makes Him Lord to you or that person who obeyed.
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
492
108
43
But I agree with Martin Luther
We save by faith alone but faith that save never alone

Faith will bear the fruit
And the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love, loving work
When Jesus in you, He will change you become more and more like Him
Not His physical handsomeness but His love
Your love become like His love

Read how Jesus decide who go to heaven who go to hell
Seem jesus saved by work
The right go to heaven because feed and love the needy
Because faith that save bear the fruit



Matthew 25

King James Version



25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
No one is arguing that good, wholesome, Christian behavior is required. Though these works cannot save anyone.

You must believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to be saved.

You cannot receive the Holy Spirit, the seal of God upon you, unless you truly believe in Jesus.

Your Christian walk is entirely based on the Holy Spirit working within you, and through you.

Your works do not gain you entry into heaven, only through Jesus Christ can you be saved.

Your pitiful works are merely the works of a very unworthy servant, no matter how much you may boast.

You were dead in your transgression and sin, before you accepted Jesus Christ. How is it conceivable that the folk that crucified the Lord of Heaven and Earth. Can then rely on their Christian works to be saved? Or rely on their perfect obedience to the law?

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ!

Not, 'we are saved by faith'. The Grace of God towards us in His Son Jesus Christ is paramount.


By Grace, by Grace, by Grace, we are saved through faith and that is not of ourselves.
 

Inquisitor

Active member
Mar 17, 2022
492
108
43
In my opinion, in a sense we can do something to be instrumental in saving ourselves.

I remember years ago when I first went to church and they, of course, talked about Jesus and everything. I thought to myself "I really want to believe this." I prayed and told God how I felt, but I knew in my heart it just didn't make sense to me. I rejected the gospel and everything about it for a time; not maliciously, it just didn't make logical sense to me.

I don't know when, or how, but at some point I believed the gospel. I don't know if it was sheer will power to believe in it, or I was miraculously converted, or what. When I was sure I was a believer I got water baptized. I'm inclined to think I played a key role in my salvation because I am not a puppet being controlled.

Jesus said that believing in Him is a work that God has assigned to us. In my experience, that's true.

John 6:29 KJV
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So in a sense we can help save ourselves by meetings the prerequisite for being saved. In another sense, we cannot save ourselves because the conditions necessary for salvation are created by God and God is the one who administers the actual saving.

And if you have worked to believe in Jesus then you did something Jesus said to do which makes Him Lord to you or that person who obeyed.
As soon as the name of Jesus Christ starts to take the center of the stage.

Then we know that we are hitting the bulls eye.

There is no other name in heaven or on earth that can save us.

I could never claim that I had anything to do with my salvation. All the credit goes upstairs. He was predestined from eternity to pay the price for my sin. Thank you Jesus for your eternal, unconditional love for me. To lay down your perfect life for me is beyond my comprehension. We will worship you for eternity.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,845
2,889
113
As soon as the name of Jesus Christ starts to take the center of the stage.

Then we know that we are hitting the bulls eye.

There is no other name in heaven or on earth that can save us.

I could never claim that I had anything to do with my salvation. All the credit goes upstairs. He was predestined from eternity to pay the price for my sin. Thank you Jesus for your eternal, unconditional love for me. To lay down your perfect life for me is beyond my comprehension. We will worship you for eternity.
I believe you. I believe people can be miraculously converted, possibly even against their will, to be believers in the gospel. For me, though, I don't think that was the case. I had to forget a lot of what I thought I knew in order to assimilate the gospel into my already-established belief system.

If I may ask, were you a child when you first started getting introduced to the gospel and the Bible in general or did you come to it as an adult?
 

Goliath

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
335
53
28
Let me in
Say I am billioner
I announce who ever come to my house get free car

A come and get free car
B not come and expect get free car, B think because free why need to vome
And B get nothing

Free gift with the requirement
The requirement is believe in His teaching
Abide in Him
Good work is only product of faith
In my analogy, a gif of a car after trust and follow his rule
You don't need to work for a years to get a car, just come to me
In my opinion, in a sense we can do something to be instrumental in saving ourselves.

I remember years ago when I first went to church and they, of course, talked about Jesus and everything. I thought to myself "I really want to believe this." I prayed and told God how I felt, but I knew in my heart it just didn't make sense to me. I rejected the gospel and everything about it for a time; not maliciously, it just didn't make logical sense to me.

I don't know when, or how, but at some point I believed the gospel. I don't know if it was sheer will power to believe in it, or I was miraculously converted, or what. When I was sure I was a believer I got water baptized. I'm inclined to think I played a key role in my salvation because I am not a puppet being controlled.

Jesus said that believing in Him is a work that God has assigned to us. In my experience, that's true.

John 6:29 KJV
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So in a sense we can help save ourselves by meetings the prerequisite for being saved. In another sense, we cannot save ourselves because the conditions necessary for salvation are created by God and God is the one who administers the actual saving.

And if you have worked to believe in Jesus then you did something Jesus said to do which makes Him Lord to you or that person who obeyed.
I looked for many years...trying to discover where the church ran off the rails.
My findings.....
Men have created doctrines from the bible, using their own understanding. The Bible is a book...and only a book, if you don't learn the Truth written in it from the Holy Spirit.
Proof?
Look at the many doctrines we have to choose from. Does the Holy Spirit teach many truths...or is there only one Truth? The Holy Spirit teaches one Truth....One way. People have been given the gift of the Holy Spirit and no ever uses it. They have put their trust in the teachings of men, and because of this, they have no reason to seek the Truth from God.

Can you learn the Truth by using the bible, without the Holy Spirit?
I really don't know, I wasn't using a Bible when I was born of God. And the evidence found in the many doctrines would seem to be against the idea....since all of them had to have come solely from a study of the Bible ...without Spiritual instruction.

The Holy Spirit taught me for approximately 6 months, and it then....it just happened. I didn't even know what happened, I just knew I was not the same guy that had come to the Lord on my knees six months earlier. Full of Joy and a Love for people, a love I had never known. I was not seeking salvation, I was seeking truth.

My parents made me go to church as a child, but when I left home...I stopped going to Church. I still believed in God, but the teachings in church simply made no sense to me. Then at 41 I got on my knees and asked God to make me understand. From that very moment my depression disappeared, chased out by being filled with Joy. The Holy Spirit began teaching me, giving me simple instruction, and through that instruction I learned why the teachings in church made no sense.
It was because they were teaching....nonsense.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
6,952
888
113
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

To me, I must read start from 27
Jesus sheep hear His voice and follow Him
To me follow Him mean
Believe in His teaching include about no fruit will trown into fire
Include His teaching about enduring to the end
Not hear His teaching mean not save
You are so confused, it's difficult to know even where to begin to try to explain facts to you.

v.27 is NOT a "conditional clause", which is basically a "if....then" construction. But that's what you are doing to v.27. Making the conditions in v.27 the requirement for receiving eternal life in v.28. But the clear wording REFUTES that opinion.

v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO, or at least OUGHT TO DO. Do you understand this? It's NOT a condition for anything.

v.27 has NO effect on v.28. In v.27, "His sheep" means believers. They are already saved and are supposed to hear Him and follow Him.

Seem to me you believe as long as you believe that Jesus is God than killing,and murder still save because salvation is not by work
Salvation is NOT by work. Why do you keep thinking it is? Do you know that you have been deceived by demon doctrines?

1 Tim 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

You are a victim of the teachings of demons. They teach the OPPOSITE of what God's Word says. And I've shown you what God's Word says and yet you STILL reject it.

To me salvation by faith but John 15 about bear fruit is product of salvation
Bearing fruit is a command for all believers. Election is to service, which is bearing fruit for the Father.

There are no verses that teach that salvation WILL produce fruit. That is WHY bearing fruit is commanded. It isn't guaranteed.

Another thing: you have used John 15 to support your opinion that salvation can be lost by those who don't bear fruit.

But you apparently don't realize that such an idea makes salvation dependent upon one's works.

So, your view of salvation is REALLY a salvation by works, regardless of your claim that you believe that salvation is by faith.

iow, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. That is an idiom for saying contradictory things.