Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

Jesus and Paul teaching the same gospel it is gospel of faith
Is this gospel of faith?

Matt 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


This Jesus gospel look work gospel
This is salvation by visiting

Disagree with Paul gospel

Is Paul have authority to make gospel?

Is that true gospel of Paul contradict Jesus gospel?

Reading the Bible must be carefull, they are connect each other

John 15 is combination faith(Paul) and visiting gospel

Faith mean jesus in you than you become like the one in you than turn you into visiting gospel

Hmm
Jesus ply the word
He teach visiting gospel
He teach if you not helping the poor you will end up to heaven with eternal fire

 

[mailmandan]

I am currently in a discussion with someone who believes we are merely "initially" saved by grace through faith apart from works, but then afterwards, sanctification (which includes holy living and good works) also plays a part in the salvation process. I refer to this as "type 2 works salvation."

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I am currently in a discussion with someone who believes we are merely "initially" saved by grace through faith apart from works, but then afterwards, sanctification (which includes holy living and good works) also plays a part in the salvation process. I refer to this as "type 2 works salvation."

John Piper seems to be of this opinion. I also believe something close to it. Initial Justification is by Grace through Faith, apart from Works. For Final Perseverance, and Full Salvation that includes Sanctification, persistence in both Faith and Good Works is needed.

From Desiring God: "
No one will be in heaven who did not walk in good works on earth. In other words, and in the words of Hebrews 12:14, there is a “holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” Abbreviated, “no holiness, no heaven.” ...

They may imagine God putting souls on a conveyor belt to glory. “Once saved, always saved” — no matter how deeply compromised their lives may be. In so doing they pit the essential doctrine of justification against the blood, sweat, and toil of the essential doctrine of sanctification, judging the first to eclipse the second. We do not need holiness, it is thought, because once saved, always saved. And by “saved” we cannot help but conclude they include “saved from needing to obey.”

Texts that speak conditionally of inheriting eternal life (conditions God empowers his true children to meet) bewilder dead faith. They cannot stomach texts about the need to continue stable and steadfast in the faith, to endure to the end, to stand firm through trials, to put the flesh to death by the Spirit, to work out one’s own salvation with fear and trembling, to make our calling and election sure through energetic striving (2 Peter 1:1–11) ...

No one in heaven will be there on the basis of his good works, and no one will be in heaven who did not walk in good works on earth. So, we press onward in holiness toward our heavenly home because Jesus has already made us his own."
Source: desiringgod.org/articles/no-holiness-no-heaven

 

[Jackson123]

1 cor 6
7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Look work gospel from Paul

Wrongdoer not inherit the kingdom
Wrongdoer not go to heaven?

Paul lie, it is work gospel

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

If our actions cannot cast us into hell, why did Our Lord say this about our eyes, and our hands etc. It is clear how seriously He took sin, and He urged us His Disciples to do the same. Let us pray for one another, that we may persevere in faith and holiness, and be saved. God Bless.

Mat 5:

"27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

 

[FreeGrace2]

John Piper seems to be of this opinion. I also believe something close to it. Initial Justification is by Grace through Faith, apart from Works. For Final Perseverance, and Full Salvation that includes Sanctification, persistence in both Faith and Good Works is needed.

There is NO "initial" or "final" anything in the Bible.

There IS salvation, justification. Not "first and final".

 

[FreeGrace2]

1 cor 6
7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Look work gospel from Paul

Wrongdoer not inherit the kingdom
Wrongdoer not go to heaven?

Paul lie, it is work gospel

The words "inherit the kingdom" isn't about ENTERING the kingdom as you presume. It is about rewards IN the kingdom.

There are 3 parallel passages about this: 1 Cor 6, Gal 5 and Eph 5:5. Both 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5 use the phrase "NOT inherit the kingdom" but Eph 5:5 says "will have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

Otherwise, all 3 passages are exactly parallel. So they all are referring to the same thing.

In Eph 5:5 we know that it isn't about ENTERING the kingdom (salvation) because Paul clearly said there will be no inheritance IN the kingdom. If he meant "NO entrance into the kingdom" he would have said that.

Believers who are disobedient/rebellious will NOT inherit the kingdom, nor have any inheritance IN the kingdom.

But they WILL be IN the kingdom.

Paul also taught this:

2 Tim 2:12-13
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

v.12 plainly teaches that believers who "endure" will "reign with Him". This is a reward, and NOT every believer will reign with Him. They will merely serve Him IN His kingdom.

The second part means that those who don't endure (or deny Him, like Peter did) will be denied their reward.

v.13 makes very clear that even IF IF IF believers are faithless (don't endure) God remains faithful. The words "He cannot deny Himself" means that because the Holy Spirit is in EVERY believer, they will NOT be denied entrance into heaven.

 

[Jackson123]

If our actions cannot cast us into hell, why did Our Lord say this about our eyes, and our hands etc. It is clear how seriously He took sin, and He urged us His Disciples to do the same. Let us pray for one another, that we may persevere in faith and holiness, and be saved. God Bless.

Mat 5:

"27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Yep, faith will manifest or show himself into action

Jesus in you will appear into good action

Is Jesus in you?
How do you know

Go to hospital do ultrasonic procedure?

No ultrasonic procedure not detect Jesus

Jesus teach by the fruit you detect jesus

If Jesus in you, you will bear fruit
Bear loving work

Not that loving work save you

But your faith produce loving work

This is faith gospel

Gospel of Jesus that teach faith bear good work

 

[Jackson123]

The words "inherit the kingdom" isn't about ENTERING the kingdom as you presume. It is about rewards IN the kingdom.

There are 3 parallel passages about this: 1 Cor 6, Gal 5 and Eph 5:5. Both 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5 use the phrase "NOT inherit the kingdom" but Eph 5:5 says "will have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

Otherwise, all 3 passages are exactly parallel. So they all are referring to the same thing.

In Eph 5:5 we know that it isn't about ENTERING the kingdom (salvation) because Paul clearly said there will be no inheritance IN the kingdom. If he meant "NO entrance into the kingdom" he would have said that.

Believers who are disobedient/rebellious will NOT inherit the kingdom, nor have any inheritance IN the kingdom.

But they WILL be IN the kingdom.

Paul also taught this:

2 Tim 2:12-13
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

v.12 plainly teaches that believers who "endure" will "reign with Him". This is a reward, and NOT every believer will reign with Him. They will merely serve Him IN His kingdom.

The second part means that those who don't endure (or deny Him, like Peter did) will be denied their reward.

v.13 makes very clear that even IF IF IF believers are faithless (don't endure) God remains faithful. The words "He cannot deny Himself" means that because the Holy Spirit is in EVERY believer, they will NOT be denied entrance into heaven.

Entering heaven but not inherit?

Renting

Friend, I talk to people in the bank, he stay 20 mike away from his job because he can't find rental house less than $2000 a month

If you not inherit only renting heaven, how much we have to pay the rent?

At least million a month

Ho we pay

 

[Jackson123]

Murder not inherit heaven only enter

Jesus say, in Matt

Not only murder, just not helping the needy go to eternal fire

Jesus teach work salvation again?

 

[Jackson123]

I am from Indonesia but I am migrant worker as labor in USA
My country people hate the poor and love the rich

It even happen in the church
As a person from poor family I fell it how some people hate me

I fell sorry for that person, I am not hate them, I fell sorry because I know base Matt 25 on the last judgement, Jesus will say depart from me you hate the poor now I hate you
Go to eternal fire

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am currently in a discussion with someone who believes we are merely "initially" saved by grace through faith apart from works, but then afterwards, sanctification (which includes holy living and good works) also plays a part in the salvation process. I refer to this as "type 2 works salvation."

Are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit (grace) are you now being perfected in the flesh (works)

Paul warns them of this theology and calls them fools

 

[Jackson123]

Are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit (grace) are you now being perfected in the flesh (works)

Paul warns them of this theology and calls them fools

Correct me if I misunderstood you
Base on your statement I believe you think faith mean ok to murder as long as you believe Jesus as God you save
Am I correct?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Jackson, Agreed.

Free Grace, I updated my signature with this passage, and it is highly relevant imo. 2 Pet 1:5-11

"Fruitful Growth in the Faith
5But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

So, according to this passage, we are commanded to add "virtue, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, kindness and love" to faith. And "if you do these things, you will never stumble". What is the implication? As also an article I quoted earlier on said, if we don't do these things, then we will stumble. If you believe stumble refers only to loss of rewards, I don't agree, but I don't think we're going to change each other's minds. For myself, I want to practice what St. Peter the Apostle says here. I believe this passage strongly supports Conditional Security: it shows us how we will never stumble. Other translations have "make every effort to add to your faith virtue ... perseverance ... love" in verse 5 and "make every effort to confirm your calling and election" in verse 10. We can confirm our calling and election by adding these qualities and virtues to Faith. How do you understand the verse that says, "be diligent to make your call and election sure"?

God Bless.

 

[crossnote]

Yes just like there are more than one Jesus...

2 Corinthians 11:4 (KJV) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

And since Jesus is God, many have another Jesus by embracing another Gospel

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

@peldom10 since you disagreed with this posting, does that mean you deny that Jesus is God?

 

[crossnote]

I am from Indonesia but I am migrant worker as labor in USA
My country people hate the poor and love the rich

It even happen in the church
As a person from poor family I fell it how some people hate me

I fell sorry for that person, I am not hate them, I fell sorry because I know base Matt 25 on the last judgement, Jesus will say depart from me you hate the poor now I hate you
Go to eternal fire

You should ask yourself 'why do they hate the poor?' Scripture says because they don't have Jesus (the love of God in their hearts).

And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
(Rom 5:5)

 

[peldom10]

@peldom10 since you disagreed with this posting, does that mean you deny that Jesus is God?

Not sure I understand you...but, Jesus is God.

John 8;58

 

[FreeGrace2]

Entering heaven but not inherit?

I'm sorry this is so confusing to you.

Renting

No, free housing. John 14:1-3

Friend, I talk to people in the bank, he stay 20 mike away from his job because he can't find rental house less than $2000 a month

So? How is this relevant to the 3 passages?

If you not inherit only renting heaven, how much we have to pay the rent?

Free housing.

At least million a month

Free housing.

Ho we pay

This is where your problem is. You think you have to pay to get in. That's works, my friend. You don't understand anything about grace.

Sad.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Murder not inherit heaven only enter

Why are you so hung up on sins??

Don't you believe that Jesus paid the entire sin debt on the cross?? If not, why not?

Jesus say, in Matt

Not only murder, just not helping the needy go to eternal fire

Jesus teach work salvation again?

Not even close. But your question here AGAIN reveals your complete failure to understand the gospel. Jesus taught eternal security.

Jesus said that believers POSSESS eternal life, in John 5:24. Do you believe this?

Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, in John 10:28. Do you believe this?

Please answer these questions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am from Indonesia but I am migrant worker as labor in USA
My country people hate the poor and love the rich

This has nothing to do with eternal security.

It even happen in the church

Yes, sin occurs in every church.

As a person from poor family I fell it how some people hate me

I fail to understand how this is relevant to eternal security.

I fell sorry for that person, I am not hate them, I fell sorry because I know base Matt 25 on the last judgement, Jesus will say depart from me you hate the poor now I hate you
Go to eternal fire

Again, you fail to understand grace. Once a recipient of eternal life, the person shall never perish.

But you don't believe what Jesus said.

Eternal security is truth because Jesus said He IS the truth. John 14:6