Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

You have been seriously messed up by someone. Or maybe you just have a preconceived idea and the FACTS won't change your mind.

I'm tired of your rejection of what Jesus said in John 10:28. You have no excuse.

Friend, you keep thinking I reject the Word
We have different understanding, yes
But I am not reject the Word

To me we have to endure till the end, than our salvation lock

In revelation there is a story about wedding party between church
It not happen yet, so we are dating
When it happen?
In the end time
So we are not marry yet
After marry no devorce

Now we have a chance to deny Jesus

 

[posthuman]

Friend, you keep thinking I reject the Word
We have different understanding, yes
But I am not reject the Word

To me we have to endure till the end, than our salvation lock

In revelation there is a story about wedding party between church
It not happen yet, so we are dating
When it happen?
In the end time
So we are not marry yet
After marry no devorce

Now we have a chance to deny Jesus

That's interesting

But I don't think Jesus makes any mistake in proposing to the wrong kind of woman, brother

In Hebrew custom the Father chooses the bride and being engaged is treated exactly as though married. The Son goes to prepare a place while the bride is sanctified. The Father sets the day and the hour, and the Groom comes and snatches away the bride, to begin the feast of their wedding.

Jesus picks turning water to wine as His first miracle, on purpose. The gospels are full of wedding language

 

[Magenta]

Where do you get the idea that you "let" Jesus in?

Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20

 

[Jackson123]

That's interesting

But I don't think Jesus makes any mistake in proposing to the wrong kind of woman, brother

In Hebrew custom the Father chooses the bride and being engaged is treated exactly as though married. The Son goes to prepare a place while the bride is sanctified. The Father sets the day and the hour, and the Groom comes and snatches away the bride, to begin the feast of their wedding.

Jesus picks turning water to wine as His first miracle, on purpose. The gospels are full of wedding language

Thank for your view
This is mine
Jesus announce whoever believe will be marry me
John 3:16

Then jesus define what do He mean by believe

1. Invite me into your heart ( john 15)
2. Keep your faith or endure till you die(Matt 24:13)

If you broke one or both of that rule, you are not qualified
If you do follow those rule, you contract secure or lock

 

[Jackson123]

Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20

Yep, invitation for all the earth, up to every body to response yes or no

 

[Goliath]

To my knowledge Moses didn't have the authority to make the law, we call it the law of Moses but all are from God

I agree....the Jews coined the term... Law of Moses, not me.
But I believe they did it to separate the Law of Works...from the Ten Commandments

 

[Runningman]

The traditions of men, but they make for a very interesting study as to their origin. We are to humble ourselves before the Lord...and I don't how a three piece suit or a designer gown shows humility when greater men than they, came before God in sackcloth and ashes.


Repent....a simple word, but many do not know how it applies to salvation. Even if they did, they have been told, by those in whom they have put their trust...they were saved the moment they believed. Removing any reason for them to repent.



I had a few encounters for the twenty plus years when I really wasn't seeking God. Didn't understand why, but they were dreams about the last days...I guess??...designed to show me what would happen if I continued down the road I was on. Dreams that were so real, it took days to shake them off.
I recall my friends consoling me, not knowing why I was in this state of mind, because I didn't give them the reason, for fear they would think I was nuts.

I was living in Long Beach California... in the last one of these dreams I got out of bed at dawn...because I noticed a red reflection through the curtains, a reflection covering the wall. I got up to inspect...and looking off to the west, miles out into the ocean, and saw what looked like mushrooms, a checkerboard pattern of mushrooms!!
I ran out onto the beach to get a better view, and discovered they were not mushrooms, they were mushroom clouds. Much more to the story...but it's kinda long...but the thing is..it was as real as it could get. But still...after a few days, the fear wore off and I went back to my California bachelor life.


Interesting...I use to do a lot of writing too. Just copying down teaching as dictated by the Holy Spirit.
I would excitedly write for hours and hours, so I didn't forget anything.
Things which I later discovered were already written in the Bible, teaching that I didn't know were already written down. So I stopped writing, and after each teaching I would find the corresponding teachings in the Bible. Unfortunately I didn't expect to become a teacher or I would have written all the corresponding passages down for these teachings. But they are easy enough to find with the technology we have today, technology I didn't have at my finger tips back then.



Sounds like your inspiration may have come from a higher Authority. Thank you for sharing brother.

Interesting commentary and testimony brother. I believe we will have many friendly discussions here. I noticed you said something aobut repentance. May I ask you to explain what repentance is exactly?

 

[Goliath]

that could be the Noahide laws, or it could be specific commandments God gave Abraham such as 'go here' or 'go there' and circumcision.
since the Bible indisputably places the 10 commandments as part of 'the law' there is no reason to presume that Abraham was under 'the law' when scripture specifically tells us he was not. but everything Moses commanded, he wrote, 'thus saith the LORD' -- nothing in Moses' law originates with Moses. all those things are equally God's commandments.

True...but wasn't Cain punished for killing Able? And the flood...why did God flood the earth?
Wasn't it because of the evil of men?

to me i still have seen no reason to imagine that 'the law' is separated into required and unrequired parts. everything in the Bible talks about 'the law' as one whole entity. James & Christ, in two witnesses, say breaking any part of it makes a person guilty of all - even the least commandment. Paul leaves no question as to whether we are under it nor does he leave any doubt as to whether the 10 commandments are included as part of it.

It's not....really...they are all Gods commandments, which when we keep them, we discover how Gods Grace actually works in our lives. I'm not saying you should wear a phylactery with the Ten Commandments written on it. The Ten Commandments along with many other, "Thou shalt no do's", are written in our hearts. To prove this about the Ten Commandments ....Confess your sins before God and then watch how the Holy Spirit convicts you if you break any one of the Ten Commandments. Today there are many more "Thou shalt no do's", commandments, than the original Ten. Like thou shall not look at Pornography....wasn't written in stone because it didn't exist back then.

am i arguing against keeping sabbath?
no.
i will judge no one for keeping it and judge no one for not keeping it.
i am confirming the commandment given to us, "let no one judge you according to a sabbath" -- and the salvation we have received, in that, having died to the law we are free to belong to a new husband: Christ. i am confirming what is written in Galatians, that having received the Spirit through faith, we are not perfected then through the flesh. if the physical ceremony of circumcision is greater than ceremonial physical sabbath observance ((per John 7:23)) and circumcision in the flesh avails nothing - and can even be heresy if we think it must be added to faith ((per Galatians)) - then we have a very clear narrative in scripture about how these things should be understood, and to me there is a very clear disconnect between "we are no longer under the law" and "we will lose our salvation if we don't keep sabbath"

Brother...I keep the Sabbath as God set it up, the way the Catholic Church set it up. Not the way the modern Church has set it up. The seventh day is the Sabbath...and that day is Saturday..and on Saturday I try to rest on that day. Now since the Sabbath is a day of rest, who is keeping the Sabbath Law,.... as God set it up?

Those who rest on Saturday, the seventh day of the week. And there are many different ways one finds restful...which we should not judge. Some like to sleep in and then play some golf, some like to fish, some like to shop, some like to go visit friends..etc. Nobody should judge you on the manner in which you find rest. Then many of those same people will go and gather for worship on Sunday...the first day of the week...and in error, call it the Sabbath. But even so...if the rested on Saturday..the Sabbath, they unknowingly are keeping Sabbath Law!!

 

[Goliath]

Interesting commentary and testimony brother. I believe we will have many friendly discussions here. I noticed you said something aobut repentance. May I ask you to explain what repentance is exactly?

Gotta go Brother, but in short..Repentance is when you try not to sin...because you love God. It's when you not only feel Guilt when you sin, as when you repent, but you will feel sorrow over sin. Sorrow can make cry, because of your love and you don't want to let him down.

 

[Runningman]

Gotta go Brother, but in short..Repentance is when you try not to sin...because you love God. It's when you not only feel Guilt when you sin, as when you repent, but you will feel sorrow over sin. Sorrow can make cry, because of your love and you don't want to let him down.

Yes agreed. I have another question for you later. I'll ask later tonight or maybe tomorrow.

 

[Inquisitor]

I don't think you fully understand things, friend.

1) I don't preach salvation by works, I preach good works are the EVIDENCE of having received salvation and the absence of good works are the evidence it has not yet been received.,

2) Catholicism doesn't teach salvation is limited by obedience to their version of the Ten Commandments - they teach the Father was so pleased with how obedient Jesus was that He arbitrarily decided to grant salvation to mankind ***without regard, consideration, or requirement of blood atonement whatsoever*** and set up the Catholic priesthood as the conduit through which this salvation would be disseminated.

Y'know what? "Protestants' who subscribe to Jesuit Futurism have a hard time letting that sink in, so I'm gonna repeat it: ***without regard, consideration, or requirement of blood atonement whatsoever***".

That's why Catholic priests have said and believe even well into this our 21st century that when they hear this stanza of "How Great Thou Art":

"And when I think that God, His Son not sparing​

Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in​

That on the cross, my burden gladly bearing​

He bled and died to take away my sin"​

​

"I scarce can take it in either, for the shed blood of Jesus has nothing to do with the sinner obtaining salvation". They teach salavtion is predicated on submission to the Pope in total.


So, there's no comparison with what Protestantism and Catholicism believe

What Catholics believe and what Protestants believe, is of no concern to me.

Actually, you also preach that the law must be strictly obeyed. Transgression of the law is also sin, within your interpretation.

Works are not the evidence of salvation, anyone can occupy themselves with works. There is only one sure way to know that someone is saved and loved by Jesus. If that someone expresses love towards the brethren, agape love.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.

 

[posthuman]

1. Invite me into your heart ( john 15)

hmm i read John 15 and it seems closer to the truth to say He has invited us into His heart
i don't see "invite Him into your heart" there but i see,

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
(John 15:16)
​

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
(John 15:19)
​

it says we did not choose Him -- we did not invite Him
but He chose us -- He invited us, and brought us into Him, out of the world.
He says keep His command, and says His command is to love one another.
it says He took us and put us into His heart, and He says, stay there - stay in His heart

as you say, amen, endure in this faith; believe Him, even to the end

if He chose me to bear fruit, i know i will bear fruit.
i am not afraid, because i trust Him, and i know He cannot fail

 

[posthuman]

Catholicism doesn't teach salvation is limited by obedience to their version of the Ten Commandments - they teach the Father was so pleased with how obedient Jesus was that He arbitrarily decided to grant salvation to mankind ***without regard, consideration, or requirement of blood atonement whatsoever***

not that i am catholic or anything, but what you say about catholics does not seem to jive with what catholics themselves say..

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/doctrine-of-the-atonement

slander is not good.

 

[posthuman]

What Catholics believe and what Protestants believe, is of no concern to me.

Actually, you also preach that the law must be strictly obeyed. Transgression of the law is also sin, within your interpretation.

Works are not the evidence of salvation, anyone can occupy themselves with works. There is only one sure way to know that someone is saved and loved by Jesus. If that someone expresses love towards the brethren, agape love.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.

can only the redeemed have love?
what then do the unredeemed have?

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.​

(John 15:13)​

​

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; ​

yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. ​

(Romans 5:7) ​

​

in Romans 5:7 is Paul talking strictly about saints when he says someone may dare to die for a good man? or is he saying this in general?
has no one ever died for someone except they were saved?

i am not sure i know someone is saved just because i see that they love another person.
let me give an example for us to think about: 2 Samuel 13.
Amnon loved his sister Tamar ((vv. 13:1, 4, 15)) -- and raped her.
is this evidence of his salvation?
mr. telephone will say that the noun form of love is not the same as the verb form of love -- but 2 Samuel 13 describes Amnon's love both in verb & noun form.

i think that proceeding down this route a person necessarily has to change the definition of words adopting a private definition when suitable and dropping that definition when no longer suitable, which is disingenuous.
it is not love that saves us - though love is certainly an evidence of being found in Christ, is it both necessary and sufficient?
it is grace through faith - which grace God has poured out on us out of His love, as Paul writes in Romans 5, He died not for the just but for the ungodly, while we were yet evil, redeeming us. if He had loved us, but not died for us - we would still remain in our sin. it is Christ who saves - who yes, saves because of His love! - but His love alone doesn't save; for He so loved the cosmos that He gave Himself, yet not all are saved.

 

[posthuman]

"I scarce can take it in either, for the shed blood of Jesus has nothing to do with the sinner obtaining salvation".

when i search the internet for this exact quote, the only place it is found anywhere is right here in this forum in your post.

who are you claiming says this?
do you have any evidence anyone says this except you?

 

[posthuman]

but 2 Samuel 13 describes Amnon's love both in verb & noun form.

for @Phoneman-777 lest he claim it isn't so:

καὶ ἐμίσησεν αὐτὴν Αμνων μῗσος μέγα σφόδρα ὅτι μέγα τὸ μῗσος ὃ ἐμίσησεν αὐτήν ὑπὲρ τὴν ἀγάπην ἣν ἠγάπησεν αὐτήν καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῇ Αμνων ἀνάστηθι καὶ πορεύου
(2 Samuel 13:15 LXX)

​

 

[posthuman]

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.

which is the important part here: the fact of love, who we love, or how we love?

in the case of our Lord --

For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, ​

that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ​

(John 3:16) ​

​

is it His love that saves? if so wouldn't the whole cosmos be saved, because He so loved the whole of creation?
but no - He says whosoever believes will have everlasting life.

it seems to me it hinges on belief - that love is a necessary but insufficient condition.
thus we remain unqualified to judge one another: someone may have love but remain in unbelief, and someone may believe but, because of vexation of sin, their love is grown cold and appear inevident to our dim, human eyes.
only God searches the heart

what do i mean? an example: Lot did not speak to his married daughters, nor did Lot speak to his sons before he was snatched away from Sodom. shall i say then Lot was not saved? affirming what i read in Genesis, Peter tells me he is righteous, and that his soul was vexed by the wickedness he saw. for what reason did he refrain from speaking to his sons and daughters, other than this vexation? should i imagine he had no love for them? if i say that, how do i address 1 John 3:14?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
And you don't have any excuse for agreement. It has been fully and clearly explained.

Your responses don't reflect any familiarity with what I've explained.

I am not agree with when your salvation lock

This sentence doesn't make sense. Please fix.

Base Matt 24:13 I believe we have to endure till the end

The context is the 7 year tribulation.

To me the end mean till I die

You are free to believe ANY error you choose to.

Example Muslim persecute me and give me choice, I may not strong enough and deny Jesus, than I lost my salvation

OK, so then, you just don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28.

If you have trusted in Jesus for your salvation, BUT also believe you can lose your salvation, then you CANNOT believe Joh 10:28.

Simply not possible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Friend, you keep thinking I reject the Word

Because you DO.

We have different understanding, yes
But I am not reject the Word

Yes you DO. Jesus said those given eternal life shall never perish.

Did Jesus give you eternal life when you believed in Him for salvation?

To me we have to endure till the end, than our salvation lock

By misunderstanding this verse, you ARE rejecting what Jesus said in John 10:28.

You are simply blind to the fact that by believing salvation can be lost is directly NOT believing what Jesus said in John 10:28.

Because of what Jesus said in John 10:28, ALL the verses you "think" are about loss of salvation are simply being grossly misunderstood.

But you won't let go of your FALSE DOCTRINE.

 

[posthuman]

I agree....the Jews coined the term... Law of Moses, not me.
But I believe they did it to separate the Law of Works...from the Ten Commandments

No,
'law of Moses' is God's terminology, and He calls it His own commandments, for Israel:

Malachi 4:4
Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, [With] [the] statutes and judgments.