Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Jackson123]

hmm i read John 15 and it seems closer to the truth to say He has invited us into His heart
i don't see "invite Him into your heart" there but i see,

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
(John 15:16)
​

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
(John 15:19)
​

it says we did not choose Him -- we did not invite Him
but He chose us -- He invited us, and brought us into Him, out of the world.
He says keep His command, and says His command is to love one another.
it says He took us and put us into His heart, and He says, stay there - stay in His heart

as you say, amen, endure in this faith; believe Him, even to the end

if He chose me to bear fruit, i know i will bear fruit.
i am not afraid, because i trust Him, and i know He cannot fail

Seem to me from john 3:16 He choose whosoever believe
He chose human not human chose Him
No body ask Him to die on the cross He chief to die

He invite every body to be His chosen by say yes

He chose not by force
He say let Me in
Yes He chose every of us but up to us

If I have 5 child, I love all, I chose all to inherit all I have
Up to them to accept or not
I allready prepare 5 houses for them, but one of them don't like that house move to other town
Up to them

That what happen to our Lord

He chose to die for all of us

Mean He chose us

Depend on us say yes or no

 

[Jackson123]

No,
'law of Moses' is God's terminology, and He calls it His own commandments, for Israel:

Malachi 4:4
Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, [With] [the] statutes and judgments.

Yep, it's ten commanment

 

[posthuman]

Seem to me from john 3:16 He choose whosoever believe
He chose human not human chose Him
No body ask Him to die on the cross He chief to die

He invite every body to be His chosen by say yes

He chose not by force
He say let Me in
Yes He chose every of us but up to us

If I have 5 child, I love all, I chose all to inherit all I have
Up to them to accept or not
I allready prepare 5 houses for them, but one of them don't like that house move to other town
Up to them

That what happen to our Lord

He chose to die for all of us

Mean He chose us

Depend on us say yes or no

what about here --

If you were of the world, the world would love its own.
Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.​

(John 15:19)
​

He says He chose us out of the world
that means He does not choose the whole world, but a remnant of it
still He loves the whole world, but He does not choose the whole world. Jacob has 12 sons, and they are all loved, but God chooses one of them to be the tribe Christ will come from, Judah. God chooses one of them to be His priests, Levi. there are many nations but He chooses one, Israel, to bear His name.

i don't think there will be empty houses in heaven, and i don't think there will be anyone without a house there.
God knows exactly how many to build
He chooses who He will save; whoever believes in Him will be saved - He chooses who believes, but He chose us before we ever believed. this is beyond human understanding IMO. we have free will, but only because God predestined us to have free will. to me this is something to marvel at and say, God is great! not something to argue about.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Seem to me from john 3:16 He choose whosoever believe
He chose human not human chose Him

This is unbiblical. No verse says what you claim.

In facts, John 3:16 makes clear it is humans who choose to trust in Him.

No body ask Him to die on the cross He chief to die

And He chose to die for EVERYONE.

He invite every body to be His chosen by say yes

Not exactly. He invites everyone to believe in Him for salvation. Those who do believe in Him are chosen for service. Eph 1:4

 

[posthuman]

I agree....the Jews coined the term... Law of Moses, not me.
But I believe they did it to separate the Law of Works...from the Ten Commandments

let me give you more witnesses:

Ezra came up from Babylon.
He was a teacher well versed in the Law of Moses, which the LORD, the God of Israel, had given.
(Ezra 7:6)
​

"the law of Moses" is God's terminology, not man's.
it is given by the LORD, not by man.

this is seen in many scriptures -- in Daniel 9:14-19, for example, too. it is called the law of Moses, and it is given by God.
in 2 Chronicles 34: 14 it is called "the Law of the LORD that had been given through Moses"

i find no hint in scripture anywhere that the 10 commandments are not part of it or included in it.
in 2 Chronicles 33:1-9 it's recorded that Manasseh had many gods and idols, even profaning the temple with them, and this is contrary to the law given through Moses. what Manasseh has specifically broken is the 10 commandments, and it is referred to as the law of Moses.
i see the same thing in 2 Chronicles 34 when Josiah finds the book of "the law of Moses" -- he repents when he discovers what "the law of Moses" says and goes around destroying all the idols and places where other gods were put before the LORD. so Josiah sees that the 10 commandments are part of the law of Moses, not different from them. he sees that commandments #1 and #2of the decalogue have been broken, and this is referred to as the law of Moses.

so instead of the Bible treating the 10 commandments like they are not part of the law of Moses, and instead of the Bible treating the law of Moses like it was not from God, the Bible specifically says many times that everything commanded through Moses is from God, and the Bible treats the 10 commandments like it is 'the law of Moses'

 

[posthuman]

Those who do believe in Him are chosen for service. Eph 1:4

Ephesians 1:4 says this choosing took place before the foundation of the world.
did we believe before the foundation of the world?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ephesians 1:4 says this choosing took place before the foundation of the world.
did we believe before the foundation of the world?

God is omniscient. He has always known who would believe. No surprises for God. Unlike humans.

Because Paul actually defined the word "us" in 1:19 as "us who believe", you may replace the word "us" in 1:4 with "believers". So, in eternity past, God simply decreed that believers would be chosen for service.

If you disagree that election is to service, please share verses that show clearly that election is to salvation.

 

[Jackson123]

This is unbiblical. No verse says what you claim.

In facts, John 3:16 makes clear it is humans who choose to trust in Him.


And He chose to die for EVERYONE.


Not exactly. He invites everyone to believe in Him for salvation. Those who do believe in Him are chosen for service. Eph 1:4

I believe both
But God do first
God do chose to die, than invite all to believe but not all say Yes
Some chose to say yes, some refuse

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe both

Because you are so confused. John 10:28 is FAR MORE clear about eternal security than ANY of your much less clear "loss of salvation" verses. So you choose the FAR LESS clear verses over the FAR MORE clear verses.

But God do first

What does this mean?

 

[posthuman]

please share verses that show clearly that election is to salvation.

we could simply read the next verse in Ephesians - before the foundation of the world we were predestined to adoption as sons.
specifically, according to the good pleasure of His will - just as in v. 1 Paul declares himself to be an apostle by the will of God, as opposed to being this by Paul's own will.

i do not disagree that we are saved unto good works in His service. that'd be silly - v. 4 is clear about that; He chose us to be blameless & holy before Him

"us" is a peculiarly intimate & specific word to use if what is really meant is a generic unknown placeholder for anyone who may happen to randomly believe out of their own will & effort & desire, don't you think?

 

[Jackson123]

we could simply read the next verse in Ephesians - before the foundation of the world we were predestined to adoption as sons.
specifically, according to the good pleasure of His will - just as in v. 1 Paul declares himself to be an apostle by the will of God, as opposed to being this by Paul's own will.

i do not disagree that we are saved unto good works in His service. that'd be silly - v. 4 is clear about that; He chose us to be blameless & holy before Him

"us" is a peculiarly intimate & specific word to use if what is really meant is a generic unknown placeholder for anyone who may happen to randomly believe out of their own will & effort & desire, don't you think?

Before the foundation of the world God chose to invite all, not some, but all or whosoever to believe

Back to my analogy
I chose all my 5 children to inherit houses

Say my first say yes

Then he tell to his friend, daddy chose me to give a house
Yes he tell the truth, I chose him, but it doesn't mean I only chose him
I invite all my child

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Before the foundation of the world God chose to invite all, not some, but all or whosoever to believe

Back to my analogy
I chose all my 5 children to inherit houses

Say my first say yes

Then he tell to his friend, daddy chose me to give a house
Yes he tell the truth, I chose him, but it doesn't mean I only chose him
I invite all my child

the problem with this is God did not predestinate everyone.

those he did chose. will be saved.. Not because he chose them. But because he knew who would receive his gift and chose to save them before time began

 

[posthuman]

Before the foundation of the world God chose to invite all, not some, but all or whosoever to believe

Back to my analogy
I chose all my 5 children to inherit houses

Say my first say yes

Then he tell to his friend, daddy chose me to give a house
Yes he tell the truth, I chose him, but it doesn't mean I only chose him
I invite all my child

Jesus has gone to prepare a place in the Father's house
does He build exactly the right number of houses?

will there be any empty houses or any homeless people in heaven?

 

[Jackson123]

the problem with this is God did not predestinate everyone.

those he did chose. will be saved.. Not because he chose them. But because he knew who would receive his gift and chose to save them before time began

But in john 3:16 Jesus declare His will to call every one

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But in john 3:16 Jesus declare His will to call every one

calling and predestination are not the same

 

[Jackson123]

Jesus has gone to prepare a place in the Father's house
does He build exactly the right number of houses?

will there be any empty houses or any homeless people in heaven?

In His Father house there have more than enough room

 

[Jackson123]

calling and predestination are not the same

He predestined for whosoever believe to be save

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I’m sorry but this is a mass of confusion to conflate believing/faith with our works. It is simply Anti-Gospel…
Here we see the two don’t mix…

Galatians 2:16 CSB
[16] and yet because we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we ourselves have believed in Christ Jesus. This was so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Even James would disagree…

James 2:17 CSB
[17] In the same way faith, if it does not have works, is dead by itself.

Our faith rests in His works.

The cause of a lot of confusion about the scriptures is contained within too many versions of the bible.. Gal 2:16 in the version study from says we are justified by faith "OFF" Jesus Christ, not "IN" Jesus Christ.

 

[Jackson123]

The cause of a lot of confusion about the scriptures is contained within too many versions of the bible.. Gal 2:16 in the version study from says we are justified by faith "OFF" Jesus Christ, not "IN" Jesus Christ.

What is the different?
I am sorry English is my second language

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is unbiblical. No verse says what you claim.

In facts, John 3:16 makes clear it is humans who choose to trust in Him.


And He chose to die for EVERYONE.


Not exactly. He invites everyone to believe in Him for salvation. Those who do believe in Him are chosen for service. Eph 1:4

Seems that you have the cart before the horse. Believing in spiritual things comes only after you have been born spiritually, 1 Cor 2:14. Those that God chose before the foundation of the world were given to Jesus to pay the adoption price on the cross to be God's adopted children. Jesus is God's only begotten Son and all of those ,of us, that God gave to his Son, and only those, are God's adopted children, John 6:37-40.