Revelation Timeline

[DP]

Nope, Antiochus Epiphenes isn't in the bible so as far as biblical prophecy goes he doesn't exist. The bible is all that's needed to understand prophecy. And no, I'm not here to conufuse anyone, I just read the bible and I believe exactly what it says. The bible says in Psalms that Jesus was an abomination to the Jews and I believe it. He must definitely was the abomination that made them desolate, but whether or not that is what Daniel is referring to, I don't know for sure but I think it is.

Now, now, if you actually heed what The Bible says, then you ought to easily understand the Dan.11:31 events about the placing of an abomination idol as a replacement for the sacrifice and oblation being ended.

Concerning the meaning of an abomination, there are different applications of that word, but it's very clear that to God an idol is no doubt one of the greatest abominations against Him:

Deut 7:25-26
25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.


26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.
KJV

Or is that something you don't understand too?

Ezek 8:5-6
5 Then said He unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.


6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from My sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
KJV

And concerning Antiochus, that's simply about understanding events in God's Word having come to pass. Are we now to just deny all the Biblical artifacts found through history that confirms The Bible? No, of course not. So your argument on that point about Antiochus is very lame in that respect.

 

[GaryA]

"The 'HCSB' does not translate that passage very well..."


Let's try that with a good translation:


Daniel 9:26-27 (KJV)

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


"will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood" -- X Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong!

shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood

The words 'the end thereof' refer to the destruction described in the previous phrase. This is talking about 70 A.D. and its aftermath. It is not referring to 'The End' ( "of time" ).


"and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed." -- X Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong!

and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

This is an extrapolation of 'flood', and is talking about the war that ensued in / after 70 A.D. It is not referring to 'The End' ( "of time" ).


"He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering." -- X Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong!

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

There is a really big difference between 'make a firm covenant' and 'confirm the covenant'. The phrase 'make a firm' and the word 'confirm' have different meanings.

These words have no direct connection whatsoever with the words of the previous sentence after the colon ( starting with 'and the people' ) - which is an 'aside' from the words before the colon ( ending with 'but not for himself' ) - which resumes in the next sentence ( starting with the words 'And he shall confirm' ).

What do you think 'the' covenant meant to Daniel?


"And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." -- XXX Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong!!!

( This is a horrid malfunction of an interpretation... )

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is not referring to the Abomination of Desolation specifically. Please see this post. The word 'it' is talking about the temple. The phrase 'even until the consummation' is saying, in effect, that it ( the temple ) will remain desolate until "the end of all things" ( 'The End' ). The last phrase is referring to the 70 A.D. [ post-temple-destruction ] aftermath.


~ Grammatically speaking - the only connection the word 'prince' has to any of the words in this entire passage is the word 'people'.

The 'prince' is not referring to the 'AntiChrist'; it is referring to Tiberious / Titus.

~ The word 'he' ( all three of them ) refer back to the word 'Messiah'.

~ The "latest" point in time / history that any part of this entire passage actually refers to - excepting the phrase 'even until the consummation' - is the 70 A.D. aftermath. The phrase 'even until the consummation' is the only part of this entire passage that refers to 'The End' ( "of time" ). The rest of it is history, dating back to the 70 A.D. aftermath and before.

Daniel 9:

[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


A correct interpretation of this passage requires a sufficient understanding of the following...

According to the 'grammar of the language':

~ The phrase "seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks" cannot be "disassembled" in such a way that the end of the first seven weeks becomes a reference point to which 62 weeks can be added ( in verse 26 ). It is only properly interpreted collectively ( in week-counting terms ) as 69 weeks.

~ This phrase is very significant. In week-counting terms, it refers to the end of the rebuilding of Jerusalem. It is from this point that the 62 weeks are added. ( The words "And after" in verse 26 refer back to this phrase. )

~ This part of the verse is an 'aside'; it is a "look-ahead" reference to events ( ~70 A.D. ) that do not even take place within the 70 weeks, and has absolutely no connection what-so-ever with the "counting" of weeks or the events that are associated with those weeks.

~ There is no reference to the word 'prince' ( in verse 26 ) anywhere in the passage. All three of the words 'he' in verse 27 refer back to the word 'Messiah' in verse 26.

~ This is also a "look-ahead" reference, and has no direct connection with the 70 weeks.


"If you do not understand all of these things very clearly --- 'keep studying' until you do..."

..........

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. - Revelation 1:9

he claims to be experiencing the tribulation. So according to this, dispensation cannot be? Just a thought, I do not claim to be 100% it is more of a question.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. - Revelation 1:9

he claims to be experiencing the tribulation. So according to this, dispensation cannot be? Just a thought, I do not claim to be 100% it is more of a question.

Hello SIRGEORGIAN,

Just FYI, the "tribulation" that John is speaking of is not speaking of that last day tribulation that takes place leading up to Christ's return to end the age, but to the common tribulation that was being suffered during the first century church, John specifically making reference to his being exiled to the island of Patmos for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God.

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

So there are two tribulations in the bible?

 

[Ahwatukee]

So there are two tribulations in the bible?

No, there is common trial and tribulation which Jesus said all believers would be exposed to, which exists throughout the entire church period and that because we belong to Christ. There is a tribulation/great tribulation that is coming, which is when God will be pouring out his wrath purposely upon the earth, which will end the age and establish the Lord's millennial kingdom. The first century church suffered terrible tribulation and Christian's throughout the church period have suffered and are currently suffering in other countries. But there is time of great tribulation coming that will be poured out by God himself, which will fulfill what is called, "the day of the Lord."

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

No, there is common trial and tribulation which Jesus said all believers would be exposed to, which exists throughout the entire church period and that because we belong to Christ. There is a tribulation/great tribulation that is coming, which is when God will be pouring out his wrath purposely upon the earth, which will end the age and establish the Lord's millennial kingdom. The first century church suffered terrible tribulation and Christian's throughout the church period have suffered and are currently suffering in other countries. But there is time of great tribulation coming that will be poured out by God himself, which will fulfill what is called, "the day of the Lord."

ok thanks,
like I said I'm not 100% on revelation. Really I've only been studying for less than a year. Saying that, to me if John is writing an end of times book why then, in his greeting, would he refer to a "different type of tribulation? Why not say persecution? Again I'm not arguing per-se. I can only learn if I ask the "hard" questions.

 

[Ahwatukee]

ok thanks,
like I said I'm not 100% on revelation. Really I've only been studying for less than a year. Saying that, to me if John is writing an end of times book why then, in his greeting, would he refer to a "different type of tribulation? Why not say persecution? Again I'm not arguing per-se. I can only learn if I ask the "hard" questions.

Hi Sirgeorgian,

No problem! It's great that you are reading Revelation and the more you study it and pray, the more God will reveal to you. My advice to you is to not go into it with the idea that everything in Revelation is symbolic, but read it at face value until you encounter obvious symbolism or a metaphor's. Most of the symbolism in Revelation is revealed in the book of Revelation itself.

if John is writing an end of times book why then, in his greeting, would he refer to a "different type of tribulation? Why not say persecution?

I just looked it up and depending the translation, they use the following words, which are contained within the definition of the Greek word "thlipsis." They are persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation and oppression. In any case, below is the definition of thlipsis:

thlípsis – properly, pressure (what constricts or rubs together), used of a narrow place that "hems someone in"; tribulation, especially internal pressure that causes someone to feel confined (restricted, "without options").
2347 /thlípsis ("compression, tribulation") carries the challenge of coping with the internal pressure of a tribulation, especially when feeling there is "no way of escape" ("hemmed in").

Therefore, depending on the translation, any of the words listed above are used to convey the same idea. Again, John is speaking about the common tribulation that they share because of their belonging to Christ. John's suffering being specifically that he was exiled to the Island of Patmos, which resulted because of his belonging to Christ. If you have any questions, I would be happy to point you in the right direction.

 

[GregoryC]

Ahwatukee, If you couldn't receive what I said in my "Mother of Harlots" thread, then you still will not be able to receive any correction in this thread either.

I'm not going to go back and forth in endless debate with all those who cannot receive or understand the things of the Spirit of God.

Here is why.....

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Are you then suggesting that this brother is not born of the Spirit? I find your use of 1 Cor.2:14 both unloving and from another spirit than that of the Truth. John 15:12

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So there are two tribulations in the bible?

Yes......Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

Yes......Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Every time tribulation or tribulations is used in the New Testament (around 20 times) they all derive from the same Greek word according to New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

thlipsis; from thlibo ; tribulation:- affliction(14), afflictions(6), anguish(1), distress(2), persecution(1), tribulation(16), tribulations(4), trouble(1).

Thlibo; a prim. vb.; to press, afflict:- afflict(1), afflicted(5), crowd(1), distress(1), narrow(1), suffer affliction(1).

so to me it only speaks of one type of tribulation. Not two. If you haven't guessed by now I hold to an amillennialist view.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Are you then suggesting that this brother is not born of the Spirit? I find your use of 1 Cor.2:14 both unloving and from another spirit than that of the Truth. John 15:12

There are a lot of carnally minded people including Christians, so it should not be a surprise that they do not understand the spiritual things of God. Many resist the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth. If they continue in this rebellion against the Truth, then the rod will be used. Many have been warned of their doctrine of heresy, but yet they continue to speak lies.

But they have been warned, the rest I leave up to the Lord.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If you haven't guessed by now I hold to an amillennialist view.

I'm not much on guessing, but sorry to hear that. LOL

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

I'm not much on guessing, but sorry to hear that. LOL

lol I was just informing to give a better understanding of where I come from.

 

[Bookends]

Hang on a minute now lol. Consider this, 69 weeks til Messiah came. Then after this He confirms the covenant for one week... 7 feasts.

Passover - Jesus was the Passover Lamb. Fulfilled.
Unleavened Bread - Jesus became the unleavened bread of life. Fulfilled.
Firstfruits - Jesus the first resurrected. Fulfilled.
Pentecost - Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the church. Partially fulfilled. Paused because all of the church is not here yet.
Trumpets - Not fulfilled yet.
Attonement - Not fulfilled yet.
Tabernacles - Not fulfilled yet.

When the last three are fulfilled, the transgression will be finished, an end of sins will have been made, and reconciliation for iniquity, and everlasting righteousness will be brought in, vision and prophecy sealed up, and the most Holy will be annointed.

That's just the way I see it now... my mind could be changed.

Israel transgressions were finished in the 70th week. Consider what Jesus said in Matthew 23:29-36, 29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt.33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

So basically Jesus is calling the pharisees and scribes a liar here, telling them that they are no different from their fathers who killed the prophets because they have plans to kill Jesus and Jesus knows they will carry it out. By doing this, they fill up their fathers guilt, meaning that by killing Jesus they will commit the last transgression that puts them over the top, therefore God's wrath will come upon them.

Paul practically says the same thing in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, 14 "For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

The judgment has been pronounced because they filled up the measure of their sins (transgressions), sure they continued to sin, but by killing Jesus and continuing to persecute Him corporately (the body of Christ) God's wrath will come upon them to the uttermost. The UTTERMOST, there is nothing left of the natural nation of Israel in God's eyes. When God destroys something to the uttermost, does it not mean to never return again, forever? I think so. Hence the State of Israel today is nothing but a counterfeit, A huge distraction for the church today taking the focus off Jesus.

In Jesus comes the end of sin. This also is finished, to those in Christ concerning true Israel, the corporate body of Christ. Dispensationalist will want you to believe that this isn't fulfilled because there is still sin the world today, even among Christians. But we need to let the bible be our interpreter. However this prophecy is Israel and their city, not the whole world. In John 1:29 John the Baptist says, 29 "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" Jesus takes away the sins of those people in the world who place their faith and trust in Him. Consider what Paul said in Romans 5:21, 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Sin no longer reigns in the believer, but now grace reigns. Paul says in Romans 6:14, 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. In Hebrews 10: 17-18 the author writes, 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. Sounds to me the Christ made an end to all sin who are in Him.

To respect to the other 4 accomplishments in the prophecy of Daniel 9:24;

* To make reconciliation for Iniquity ---> 2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 5:11

* To bring in everlasting righteousness ---> 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9

* To seal up Vison and Prophecy ---> Luke 24:44; 2 Corinthians 1:20; Luke 21:21-23 (See Jesus fulfills all).

* To Anoint the Most Holy (place) ---> Hebrews 9:21-22; (Christ the anointed) Act 10:38 and Acts 4:27

 

[PlainWord]

Gary,

In your colorful post (#204) above, I think you nailed it. This is the best explanation of Dan 9 that I've read. It all adds up perfectly. Nothing in Dan 9 deals with the "AntiChrist" making a peace deal with Israel or anything happening in a 3rd earthly man-made Jewish temple. In fact, as you point out, the passage is telling us specifically that there will not be a third temple built.

"until the end of the war (in AD 73), desolations were determined" as many of the Children of Israel fled Jerusalem. The final group of organized opposition to Rome died at Masada in AD 73.

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate

Is the "Overspreading" here discussing the "flood?" "Flood" is often used to describe an overwhelming army "flooding" the Land.

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood

Agreed, this is Titus, the Prince who destroyed the city and sanctuary, with his flood of Roman troops.

Here's the part that I now see for the first time:

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is not referring to the Abomination of Desolation specifically. Please see this post. The word 'it' is talking about the temple. The phrase 'even until the consummation' is saying, in effect, that it ( the temple ) will remain desolate until "the end of all things" ( 'The End' ). The last phrase is referring to the 70 A.D. [ post-temple-destruction ] aftermath.

You are correct, the temple will remain desolate until the "end of all things." This means there is to be no Jewish temple - It will remain desolate - until a specific event, THE CONSUMMATION. I want to expand on something here.

"Even until the Consummation" is the phrase which locates the timing at the END. Again, the CONSUMMATION is an Event. It is a very important future event. The word, "consume" appears just three times in the NT. It is used to describe a divine judgment from heaven destroying evil and it has happened before and will happen again.

Luke 9:54

And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

Elijah consumed his enemies in the OT. Paul tells us who else will consume and what He consumes here:

2 Thessalonians 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

The LAWLESS ONE WILL BE CONSUMED BY THE LORD AT HIS COMING!! This is the CONSUMMATION. Thus the Temple will remain Desolate until the LORD CONSUMES THE LAWLESS ONE AT HIS COMING.

 

[PlainWord]

Has the Abomination of Desolation been "set up" yet? There are many views about the A of D. Here are the popular ideas that I've heard.

1) Antiochus IV Epiphanes. The word, Epiphanḗs, means "God Manifest." He obviously was a very bad man as he offered up swine in the Temple which lead to the Maccabees revolt. However, he died in 164 BC so Christ could not have been referencing him in Mat 24/Mark 13 as Christ was speaking of a future event to Him.

2) Titus the Prince, who destroyed the Temple in AD 70. I've tried very hard to fit this event into the A of D prediction of Christ and by extension, Daniel who Christ references. Clearly the events of AD 67-73 were horrific and these events led to the scattering of the Jews for 1,878 years. Much of these events fit. However for the life of me I cannot find anything set up in the Temple by Titus or his troops which caused a "desolation." The desolation here was the scattering of the Jews by the Roman invaders. But is this even the right desolation? There have been many desolations of various people and places. There is no doubt that Jews scattered, "Fled to the Mountains (Nations)" at this event. There is no doubt that "Great Tribulation" followed the Jews ever since and for the better part of 1900 years Jews will slaughtered in many of the various nations (mountains) to which they fled ending of course with Hitler which was the key event which got them their land back. However, something is missing.

3) Dome of the Rock in AD 688. This had been my belief for many years and I've argued for this theory passionately on these pages. It replaced the Temple on the Temple Mount. And if you believe as I do that ISLAM is Mystery Babylon then this really adds strength to this theory. However I cannot really find a desolation associated with the Dome of the Rock. There was no immediate persecution of Jews. Muslims (and their ancestors) have been persecuting and hating Jews for centuries. Many Jews in Israel believe this is the A of D still others think it is future.

4) A future (to us) A of D set up in a future Jewish 3rd Temple. As Gary points out (and I concur) there is no prophesy of a third man-made Jewish Temple. I believe strongly that the A of D referenced by Christ is not found in Dan 9. Rather it is found in Dan 11 and 12.

To understand what the Abomination of Desolation is, we must first correctly identify "the Desolate." I believe we now know who the Desolate are. I believe the LAWLESS ONE who is consumed by the Lord, will be the leader of the Desolate. Paul teaches us with no uncertainty in Gal 4:21-31 who the desolate are. They are the Children of Hagar, the Egyptian and her son, Ishmael. They are in bondage, they are flesh, they are many, they are persecutors of Isaac, they have one of the two covenants, they have no husband but most importantly, they are desolate!! All of this means one thing - Today they are Muslims, followers of Islam (Mystery Babylon).

Does anyone remember that Abraham was given two Covenants, one for Isaac and one for Ishmael? We all know about the Covenant concerning Isaac, but what of the one concerning Ishmael? I digress. The Desolate are Muslims. Therefore the Abomination is or will be Muslim/Islamic.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Hey, PlainWord! Thought I'd bump the thread for you, lest you sink into a career ending, last trashing of the rapture situation. And as long as you're hanging around, looking for the coming of the antichrist, instead of Jesus Christ. (Hate to say it, but you've got one real weird idea of what a "blessed hope" is!) Anyway, I see you've never moved off the couch...

P.S. Oh! Almost forgot! Here's that article again I know you love:

Why I Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture | Lamb & Lion Ministries​

 

[Ahwatukee]

) Antiochus IV Epiphanes. The word, Epiphanḗs, means "God Manifest." He obviously was a very bad man as he offered up swine in the Temple which lead to the Maccabees revolt. However, he died in 164 BC so Christ could not have been referencing him in Mat 24/Mark 13 as Christ was speaking of a future

Hello Plainword,

When the abomination, which I believe is synonymous with the image that is made of the first beast mentioned in Rev.13:14-15, this causes the desolation, which is when those who are in Judea flee into the wilderness (desolation) when they see the abomination standing in the holy place. This desolation mentioned here in Mt.24:15-21 is synonymous with the woman/Israel fleeing out into the wilderness in Rev.12:6, 14. To be clear, when the abomination is set up in the holy place within the temple, which will be an image of the first beast, then those in the Jerusalem and the surrounding area will flee (make desolate) to that place that God will have prepared for them, where they will be cared for and remain for that last 3 1/2 years until the return of the Lord to end the age at the end of that last 3 1/2 years.

 

[PlainWord]

Hey, PlainWord! Thought I'd bump the thread for you, lest you sink into a career ending, last trashing of the rapture situation. And as long as you're hanging around, looking for the coming of the antichrist, instead of Jesus Christ. (Hate to say it, but you've got one real weird idea of what a "blessed hope" is!) Anyway, I see you've never moved off the couch...

P.S. Oh! Almost forgot! Here's that article again I know you love:

Why I Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture | Lamb & Lion Ministries​

Hey buddy, the Blessed hope sure isn't the AntiChrist. If you are on earth during the Great Tribulation and are watching your fellow Christians and Saint being slaughtered, do you not hope and wait for the Coming of Christ??? Sure you do. As for the article, I'm sure its more of the same wishful thinking nonsense that Pre-Tribbers have been spewing forth for years.

Here's a hint for ya: Tribulation is promised to us and there is no promise to be spared Tribulation or Great Tribulation. Great Tribulation is Tribulation on steroids. Here's another hint. God's Wrath is Not the Great Tribulation. God's Wrath comes after the Great Tribulation and is in response to it. We are not appointed to God's Wrath but we are appointed to Satan's Great Tribulation.