Revelation's 42 Months and 1260 Days

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

Here I'll post my last to you again so you don't have to wade through a bunch of distractions.

Originally Posted by cfultz3

It is true that Jesus said that we would know the season, but not the day or hour. (Mat 24:36-39). He also said that the generation which sees all these things shall not pass away (v34). I do not see you predicting a date but a season.

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You are exactly right, let me give you a little Scripture. When Jesus was going up to Jerusalem for the final time, He saw a fig tree and walked up to it to see if there was any fruit on it. There wasn't, because it wasn't the season for figs and Jesus knew it. So why was he looking for fruit? Well, in Jeremiah and Hosea we see figs or a fig tree used figuratively to describe the Jewish people. Jesus is about to go to the Cross, which will usher in the church, bringing the time of Jewish ministry to the surrounding nations to a close.

Next day the Lord, Peter and John are walking by that fig tree and Peter says, "Look Lord, the fig tree you cursed has died from the roots up." Jesus replies, "Have faith in God." Now is Jesus telling the apostles, if they have faith in God, that they too can curse of fig tree? Makes no sense, but if you look at that fig tree figuratively, as Israel, then it appears that Jesus is telling the apostles that no matter what happens to them, have faith in God for the Jewish people. Then in the Olivet discourse Luke 21:29-32 we read the following . . .

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (the other Middle Eastern nations); When they now shoot forth (leaves not fruit, i.e., after the new nation of Israel is established in 1948), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (of the Jews who freed the holy land from Gentile control) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Anything left out that would not be fulfilled? Nothing according to that Scripture! Did those verses say it would be only one generation, usually considered to be 40 years before Jesus returns? No, it stated that some of the Jews who helped free the holy land from Gentile control will still be alive when the day of the Lord arrives, and those beloved Jews, and the rest of us, will look upon Him whom all of us have pierced.

Laodicea · Mar 2, 2013

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The temple of God in verse 1 cannot be the temple in Jerusalem because it was destroyed.
Hebrews 8:1-2 KJV
(1) Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
(2) A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

There is a true temple in heaven which the Lord made and not man. The court is where the sacrifices took place, it is also where Jesus died so then the court is the earth. Notice that Rev 11:2 says they shall tread under foot.
Daniel 7:23, 25 KJV
(23) Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Time, times and the dividing of times is the same length of time as 42 months. During these 42 prophetic months God's people are persecuted also the holy city is trodden under foot so therefore the holy city is symbolic for God's people not a literal city. For more evidence that it is God's people who are persecuted at this time not a literal city see these verses.
Revelation 12:14-15 KJV
(14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
(15) And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Revelation 13:5-7 KJV
(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
(6) And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
(7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

My reply to Tdrew was also buried, two pages up so I am posting it again, somewhat expanded

[QUOTE=tdrew777;932787]What I am understanding is spiritual gibberish. Let me write out what I have heard again. You believe in salvation by condition of the human heart, (apart from Jesus but not apart from Messiah).Am I hearing correctly?[/QUOTE]

Not exactly, I believe there is NO salvation of any kind apart from Jesus' Cross. However, I do believe there can be salvation without a knowledge of that event. If that isn't true, then we won't see any Old Testament believers in heaven. While Jesus was on earth, Jewish believers were spread all over the world. As proved in earlier posts (from Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus), those Jewish believers were born again just like we are. but out there in the boonies, they never even heard of Jesus'.

So your question is this: did those Jewish believers who were praying to our G-d, and reading from Scripture, "oh how love I thy law, it is my medication day and night," did they suddenly lose their salvation because they were unknowingly thrust into the Christian era, but didn't get their doctrine updated? How about a year later, 10 years later, a hundred years later, how about right now? Point being: since God sovereignly blinded the Jewish people to the Gospel, Romans 11:8, it is scripturally possible for a Jew to be saved during the Christian era without recognizing Yeshua as his Messiah.

Sir, I didn’t expect what I have written to make doctrinal sense to you, so your seeing what I write as doctrinal gibberish is understandable. Thinking outside the box is very difficult for anyone immersed in what is generally considered to be orthodox doctrine. It was extremely difficult for me, too, and took the Lord many years.

The Jewish people and the Gentile church are Two Witnesses of Rev 11 (now a scriptural given) Furthermore, all prophetic days and time-times are fulfilled in just three events: the construction of the Islamic Dome of the Rock in 688 A.D., the new nation of Israel established in 1948 and Jerusalem free of Gentile control in 1967. Strange as it may seem, the impact on orthodox theology of those three seemingly unimportant fulfillments of prophecy is staggering.

Through the events mentioned above, the Lord has opened not only His prophetic books, but also the whole Bible in a new way. In fact, we now have the greatest opening of God's Word since the New Testament was written. It would be impossible for me to explain to your satisfaction this new opening of God’s Word and new doctrinal system it engendered, one or two pages at a time here on the forum. So only if the Lord so leads, please go to EllisSkolfield.com and download the 2013 edition of the Bible prophecy Study Guide (SG) that you will find on the homepage. I don’t know if you will be able to accept a single one of its major tenets, but at least you will see the the biblical and historical reasoning behind what I teach in pictorial form. In any case, go in peace, brother.

Ellis Skolfield

PS: The SG was designed for video projection to class or congregation so please be patient with the limited copy per page and the 3 x 4 format.

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

Here I'll post my last to you again so you don't have to wade through a bunch of distractions.

Originally Posted by cfultz3

It is true that Jesus said that we would know the season, but not the day or hour. (Mat 24:36-39). He also said that the generation which sees all these things shall not pass away (v34). I do not see you predicting a date but a season.

------------------------------------------------

You are exactly right, let me give you a little Scripture. When Jesus was going up to Jerusalem for the final time, He saw a fig tree and walked up to it to see if there was any fruit on it. There wasn't, because it wasn't the season for figs and Jesus knew it. So why was he looking for fruit? Well, in Jeremiah and Hosea we see figs or a fig tree used figuratively to describe the Jewish people. Jesus is about to go to the Cross, which will usher in the church, bringing the time of Jewish ministry to the surrounding nations to a close.

Next day the Lord, Peter and John are walking by that fig tree and Peter says, "Look Lord, the fig tree you cursed has died from the roots up." Jesus replies, "Have faith in God." Now is Jesus telling the apostles, if they have faith in God, that they too can curse of fig tree? Makes no sense, but if you look at that fig tree figuratively, as Israel, then it appears that Jesus is telling the apostles that no matter what happens to them, have faith in God for the Jewish people. Then in the Olivet discourse Luke 21:29-32 we read the following . . .

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (the other Middle Eastern nations); When they now shoot forth (leaves not fruit, i.e., after the new nation of Israel is established in 1948), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (of the Jews who freed the holy land from Gentile control) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Anything left out that would not be fulfilled? Nothing according to that Scripture! Did those verses say it would be only one generation, usually considered to be 40 years before Jesus returns? No, it stated that some of the Jews who helped free the holy land from Gentile control will still be alive when the day of the Lord arrives, and those beloved Jews, and the rest of us, will look upon Him whom all of us have pierced.

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Therapon - black

You are exactly right, let me give you a little Scripture. When Jesus was going up to Jerusalem for the final time, He saw a fig tree and walked up to it to see if there was any fruit on it. There wasn't, because it wasn't the season for figs and Jesus knew it. So why was he looking for fruit? Well, in Jeremiah and Hosea we see figs or a fig tree used figuratively to describe the Jewish people. Jesus is about to go to the Cross, which will usher in the church, bringing the time of Jewish ministry to the surrounding nations to a close. -- I can agree to that, seeing that we are under the New Testament.

Next day the Lord, Peter and John are walking by that fig tree and Peter says, "Look Lord, the fig tree you cursed has died from the roots up." Jesus replies, "Have faith in God." Now is Jesus telling the apostles, if they have faith in God, that they too can curse of fig tree? Makes no sense, but if you look at that fig tree figuratively, as Israel, then it appears that Jesus is telling the apostles that no matter what happens to them, have faith in God for the Jewish people. --As oppose to having the faith which came by the Law? When I look at the Greek when He said, 'Have faith in God (KJV)', I see that it was a command, "You* are to possess faith from God" (God is in the genitive). I turn to Romans 3:3 and see that 'faith from God' which Jesus spoke to them in play. And as I read on in Romans 3, I come to verses 28-31 and see that it is the one God who shall justify (find not guilty) by faith not only those circumcised (first Covenant), but also those uncircumcised (second Covenant). So, I can see what you are saying.

Then in the Olivet discourse Luke 21:29-32 we read the following . . .

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (the other Middle Eastern nations); When they now shoot forth (leaves not fruit, i.e., after the new nation of Israel is established in 1948), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (of the Jews who freed the holy land from Gentile control) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. --Do you have data which shows growth in the number of Muslim countries (controlled or under influence) since 1948? I looked but cannot find a list.

Anything left out that would not be fulfilled? Nothing according to that Scripture! Did those verses say it would be only one generation, usually considered to be 40 years before Jesus returns? --How can it be 40 years. When you add 40 to either date, we would then be past that year. Will you explain? Do you mean a generation as in: the next having completely replaced those of the last (not having even one left of the last)? If that is what you mean, then okay. But, would like to know what you meant by 40 years.

No, it stated that some of the Jews who helped free the holy land from Gentile control will still be alive when the day of the Lord arrives, and those beloved Jews, and the rest of us, will look upon Him whom all of us have pierced.

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

cfultz3;933581[COLOR=#b22222 said:

You can't imagine how much I appreciate your post. You see it, praise the Lord, you see it!!!e

Do you have data which shows growth in the number of Muslim countries (controlled or under influence) since 1948? I looked but cannot find a list.

Yes, I have maps in the Study Guide, but don't know whow to display them here.

How can it be 40 years. When you add 40 to either date, we would then be past that year. Will you explain? Do you mean a generation as in: the next having completely replaced those of the last (not having even one left of the last)? If that is what you mean, then okay. But, would like to know what you meant by 40 years.

I think I answered tiy in the very next paragraph . . .

No, it stated that some of the Jews who helped free the holy land from Gentile control will still be alive when the day of the Lord arrives, and those beloved Jews, and the rest of us, will look upon Him whom all of us have pierced

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Therapon said:

Highlight what you want and make it into a pic (icon, png, etc...) (if it is not already a pic), then click the third from last icon on top of the 'quick reply' box (the insert image).

The next paragraph did not explain it to me. Will you explain in a different way please?

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Tell me the page and I will do it

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

cfultz3 said:

I'm 85 brother, and software is illiterate, those maps are embedded in the Study Guide, which is in PDF format. I don't know how to select them out and convert them to files acceptabe to a clipbox that I have never used and am not even sure I have. I hate to inconvenience you, but if you would go to ellisskolfield.com and download the Study Guide on the homepage, you will have not only those maps but a complete pictorial outline of the position.

The verse I think you wanted me to amplify is Luke 21:32, correct? "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

Well, for generations, it has been generally accepted by the Church that a Jewish generation was 40 years. But the above verse does not state it would be just one generation from when the fig tree put forth leaves until all things would be fulfilled. Rather it states that the generation alive when the fig tree put forth leaves, would still be alive when all things are fulfilled. I have a feeling you already know all that so I must be missing something. <smile>

Psalm 90:11 states, "the days of a man's life shall be three score and ten or if by reason of strength fourscore." Then there's a verse somewhere stating that in the latter days man could live to be a hundred, which we indeed do today, but I've forgotten where to find it.

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Therapon said:

This is the verse I was thinking also but could not remember where I heard it from (from Scripture or hearsay), so did not comment on it.

I had already downloaded it.

When do you think 'the fig tree' put forth leaves? I was thinking when it became a country (1948). Will you expound?

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Therapon said:

I will try and find that map. But, if by change, you know what page it is on, it would be helpful.

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Therapon said:

Mr. Therapon,

When one comes in with an open mind and then take what is said and go and search the Scriptures, one often finds another's understanding of Scripture and will not see that one set out to deceive. It is often understood that we each are at different levels of understanding and not one person has all the answers.

But, I tell you and everyone else, search Scripture before you speak. Oftentimes, we speak before we think and we all know what becomes of that.

As the Spirit leads in Truth, He will lead by mentioning Scripture. So, inasmuch as you are lead to know, know what Scripture says before speaking.

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

cfultz3 said:

The map appears twice, p265 and p338, however it does not include those nations that used to be friendly to the West, like many in sub Sahara, the Sudan et al., that are under full Islamic control, but not prophetically significent.

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

cfultz3 said:

It appears the day-years of Rev 11:3-4 and 12:6 pin us to 1948 as the date when the fig tree put forth leaves.

Therapon · Mar 2, 2013

cfultz3 said:

How true. I want to add something else about the impossibility of predicting when the Lord will return. Its a phrase the Lord Jesus said in the Olivet discourse, Mark 13:20 . . .

"And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."

Shortened by how much and shortened from when? From the Jubilee year of 2015? From signs in the sun, moon and stars? From "this generation will not pass away? Or shortened from a different time-line altogether that only the Lord knows. We'll just have to wait and see. <smile>

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

Therapon said:

You have a block on 'cut and paste'. The point I was taken under consideration was that, just as Israel was brought forth, so too were those who want to 'push Israel off into the water'. It is, however, interesting to note that Israel is being surrounded by his brother who has a perpetual hate for him.

cfultz3 · Mar 2, 2013

cfultz3 said:

This is what I am having trouble understanding. You say that a generation is 40 years. And if that generation which saw the Jews brought back into their homeland is to see Jesus coming back, then if you were to add 40 years to 1948, that would be 1988.
But, those 40 years were used of that generation which fell in the wilderness (people even up in the Victorian age died very very young). But, a generation today is quite longer than it was then.

You see what I am saying?

Therapon · Mar 3, 2013

cfultz3 said:

Of course, but a generational count has nothing to do with how long a person lives. You have to look at a generation from a biblical standpoint. If a generation was 70 years, your great-grandfather would have had to been 70 when your grandfather was born, your grandfather would have had to been 70 when your father was born, and your father would have had to be 70 when you were born. That's not the way it works. if I remember correctly, the Israelites were in Egypt 400 years with 10 generations recorded. Ever since then, a biblical generation is considered to be 40 years.

As stated before, however, Luke 21:32 does not state it would be exactly one generation from when the fig tree put forth leaves until all things would be fulfilled. It states instead, that the generation alive when the fig tree put forth leaves, would still be alive when all things were fulfilled. <smile>

Therapon · Mar 3, 2013

cfultz3 said:

Right now, ten anti-Israeli Islamic nations surround Israel, interesting number, ten! There are 10 horns in the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast and 10 horns in the Scarlet beast.

loveme1 · Mar 3, 2013

I find it strange that Israel the nation let the islamic shrine remain standing in Jerusalem...

Revelation's 42 Months and 1260 Days

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