Revelation's Mystery Author? Rev 1:1-3 suggests a third-party author
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Rev_1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev_22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
So we have God the Father giving Christ this revelation or revealing of future events and Christ also employs an angel to do this. At times Christ is addressing John, and at other times it is an angel:
Christ speaking to John:
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
An Angel speaking to John:
Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
It wasn't John the Apostle. Your local church might tell you that, but if you would research it at all, you would see that such is probably impossible. No one, in any real theological theory believes that. OR...John the Apostle may have written it, but if he did, then it isn't John the Apostle who wrote the Gospel of John or the letters of John.
But you know what? None of that matters anyway. No one living today, or for that matter in the second century even knows who John was. We really don't even know who Jesus was. We, as Christians, only know Jesus as the WORD. And that Word is presented to us in the Gospels as the Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us through them.
Whether you want to believe it or not, or whether you're capable of believing it or not, we only know Jesus Christ via the Gospel records of his life and teachings. We know nothing about Jesus of Nazareth historically.
And there's a reason for that. There's a reason the Gospels and Revelation are anonymous, and why Jesus never wrote anything in his life. He could write, you know? He deliberately did not. There's a Divine reason for it. But I'm not going to share it with you if you don't have it in you to ask for it.
As for your constant apologies for your perceived offense toward me--I never felt it, and I really don't know what you're looking for in a response from me about it. I never felt offended by you, so I don't know what you're talking about. But if you truly feel you have sinned in some way against me--trust me--I completely forgive you. In fact, I like you!
But you know what? None of that matters anyway. No one living today, or for that matter in the second century even knows who John was. We really don't even know who Jesus was. We, as Christians, only know Jesus as the WORD. And that Word is presented to us in the Gospels as the Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us through them.
Whether you want to believe it or not, or whether you're capable of believing it or not, we only know Jesus Christ via the Gospel records of his life and teachings. We know nothing about Jesus of Nazareth historically.
And there's a reason for that. There's a reason the Gospels and Revelation are anonymous, and why Jesus never wrote anything in his life. He could write, you know? He deliberately did not. There's a Divine reason for it. But I'm not going to share it with you if you don't have it in you to ask for it.
As for your constant apologies for your perceived offense toward me--I never felt it, and I really don't know what you're looking for in a response from me about it. I never felt offended by you, so I don't know what you're talking about. But if you truly feel you have sinned in some way against me--trust me--I completely forgive you. In fact, I like you!
Is there some reason for your cut and paste of Revelation? I mean, do you feel it has some magical quality if you cut and paste Bible verses without any comment about them? Do you believe the action alone will bring some power to play? Do you have anything to add? I mean, you do know I have a Bible, right? The verses you cut and paste, you do realize, I have read them...in depth. Right?
Rude? You think I'm being rude? Is any challenge in a conversation rude? I'm not being rude? I mean, at least I'm engaging you because you do realize the appropriate response to a cut and paste of a zillion Bible verses without any commentary is just to ignore the person. At least I'm not ignoring you. I am engaging you. If you don't want to be engaged. If you don't want my comments to you, then don't cut and paste Bible verses without any commentary. Because, frankly, I consider that a kind of magic. I don't see it as holy at all.
I think it has to be from John himself because he is writing down what he sees:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev_1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev_1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Rev_10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
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If you write a non-fiction book, you put your name on it, and everything you say is weighed against who you are. BUT... if you write a non-fiction book and you make it anonymous, so no one ever knows who wrote it, then it has to stand on its own. In the case of the Gospels or Revelation that leaves the Holy Spirit to guide you in what they mean without any distraction from the lives of those who wrote it.
If John the Apostle wrote the Gospel of John, if he wrote Revelation, then I am constantly thinking about how he abandoned Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, and how he waited some sixty years after the death of Christ to write his Gospel, and how he managed to avoid martyrdom when all the others supposedly died that way--because maybe he continued in his cowardice. Maybe Patmos was not exile, but escape.
But I don't have to worry about any of that, because even the Catholic Church admits that the Gospel of John is anonymous. The name "John" is just ascribed to it. Every scholar knows that. The same with Revelation. The John of Revelation might as well be anyone. In fact, to avoid embarrassment, the theological intellectually elite just refer to him as "John of Patmos."
But all of that notwithstanding, the Gospel of John stands on its own. You read it, and you are changed by it. It is prima facie the WORD of God. It is Christ made manifest in writing.
Revelation is a prophecy, and we see it coming true, and we read it, and know that it is our Shepard's voice. Thank God we don't have to see it through the filter of the person who wrote it--whoever that may be.
If John the Apostle wrote the Gospel of John, if he wrote Revelation, then I am constantly thinking about how he abandoned Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, and how he waited some sixty years after the death of Christ to write his Gospel, and how he managed to avoid martyrdom when all the others supposedly died that way--because maybe he continued in his cowardice. Maybe Patmos was not exile, but escape.
But I don't have to worry about any of that, because even the Catholic Church admits that the Gospel of John is anonymous. The name "John" is just ascribed to it. Every scholar knows that. The same with Revelation. The John of Revelation might as well be anyone. In fact, to avoid embarrassment, the theological intellectually elite just refer to him as "John of Patmos."
But all of that notwithstanding, the Gospel of John stands on its own. You read it, and you are changed by it. It is prima facie the WORD of God. It is Christ made manifest in writing.
Revelation is a prophecy, and we see it coming true, and we read it, and know that it is our Shepard's voice. Thank God we don't have to see it through the filter of the person who wrote it--whoever that may be.
That really can't be determined. Was it the seventh day of the week? Was it the day Jesus rose from the dead, our Easter? Or Good Friday? But here is what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us: It's supposed to be unknown because for us, just like for John, it should be any day and every day.
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I'm sorry, but I don't like the way I said that, and this forum doesn't give one the option of editing their comments. I want to rephrase it so it doesn't sound so haughty and arrogant. I don't like that about myself. So... Here is the edit:
That really can't be determined. Was it the seventh day of the week? Was it the day Jesus rose from the dead, our Easter? Or Good Friday? But here is what I believe we can take from it: It's supposed to be unknown because for us, just like for John, it should be any day and every day.
That really can't be determined. Was it the seventh day of the week? Was it the day Jesus rose from the dead, our Easter? Or Good Friday? But here is what I believe we can take from it: It's supposed to be unknown because for us, just like for John, it should be any day and every day.
