Rightly divided

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,406
669
113
The disciples never taught the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for sins during Jesus’ earthly ministry. They had no understanding of it. On one occasion Peter rebuked Jesus for hinting of His death. They actually thought the resurrection was an idle tale.
When John the Baptist proclaimed, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world,” he was simply stating what God had proclaimed since He provided skins for a covering for the first humans. The issue was and is how are we made righteous before God. It was taught through the ceremonial laws and especially the Passover. We have the benefit of hindsight, but it was always about a “perfect” sacrifice, one provided by God.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
I called you brother out of respect. If you understand respect you would 1. not jump a fellow poster who gave you respect 2.give proper respect to the Lords name. Only false gods are with a small g. This is simply fact. This is not about judging,you didn't commit a sin. I thought you had omitted it by mistake. Instead you jump me. Now can we be adult and discussere on? I understand you're being touchy because you feel attacked. I am asking to you to be clear on what you are saying. I may agree,but I won't know unless you are clear.[/QUOTE
I give up. No explanation coming on
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45 KJV)
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV)

Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:7 KJV)

What many are not understanding, who are placing undue emphasis on the Pauline Epistles (usually Mid Acts), is that as Paul spoke clearly in hindsight about the accomplishments of the Cross, whereas Jesus spoke in more veiled language to our ears...in illustrations, parables, living examples etc.
Take for example the story of the Rich Young Ruler who came to Jesus asking what he must do to gain eternal life. In that story we find embedded such truths as 'all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory' and 'with man salvation is impossible' but not through God' ...all truths repeated by Paul.
So no, there really is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul if one rightly divides God's Word. And Gentile Christians can benefit by studying the Words of Jesus.
Absolutely no contradiction, I agree 100 percent, especially if the word of truth is rightly divided.


“All truths repeated by Paul”
Mark 10:45 says ransom for “many”
1 Timothy 2:6 says ransom for “all”
Why is this?

Prophecy and scripture of the messiah is also in the OT, What was the contradiction you speak of? And what undue emphasis is being put on Paul?
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
The law was given to show the world just how sinful man truly is.
Jesus’ teaching the law in the Gospels does just that. Jesus demonstrates through the law how we cannot stop sinning under our on power. Jesus is essential for salvation. That apples to those under the laws of Moses as much as rules invented by gentiles or Greeks. We all fabricate a false code of morality that is not Worthy of God.
That is why everyone needs to read and be aware of the Gospels!
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
Would like to hear the 2 "gospels" preached to see what the "one for the Jews" sounds like. :):geek:
That is easy....you can turn on commentary and listen to Matthew, Luke, Mark, or John preached under the law, for the Kingdom of God....although you will find it gets cut short at the cross, And put on hold until, you know the prayer...

Our Lord who art in heaven, hallowed be the name, thy kingdom come....
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
That is easy....you can turn on commentary and listen to Matthew, Luke, Mark, or John preached under the law, for the Kingdom of God....although you will find it gets cut short at the cross, And put on hold until, you know the prayer...

Our Lord who art in heaven, hallowed be the name, thy kingdom come....
You have no clue what I asked nor what you're even talking about. Hyper dispensationalism has ruined your thinking. Do you ever read outside that sect? You should. Sell your Left Behind series and get some real theology? Yes, do it.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Kayla I assume?
I feel sorrow for all involved, I have gone though family issues similar to this and I know that it is heartbreaking... I am not privy to the issues they must have been going through behind closed doors, but I do not believe it has ever been the will of God for a married couple, joined as one flesh, to part ways. My heart goes out to the wife, the loss of someone you have been with for so long, especially to another woman, is one of the hardest things to endure beyond losing a child. I would take issue with the Pastor, not because he could not continue in his marriage, (he may have dealt with something we have no understanding of, if I had more information, I could have a diff opionion) I believe that marriage should be permanent, and do not agree with divorce if by all means it can be saved....but because he involved another woman, during a time that was already going to be very difficult for her, my flesh would unfortunately win the battle of the day, and I would not have many nice things to say about him...unfortunelatey this is a subject that I am admittedly weak on, my flesh wants choke this man, for allowing another woman in the picture, before the wife had time to grow from losing him...it is not fair, it is cruel...But we know, that if she seeks Gods face, through Christ, she will not be given more than she can handle, and God will send her a man that will reconcile what she went through...She will find peace. As far as the Pastor goes, I could not condemn him, I do not know the depths of his mind...I could not rebuke him, I know not what happened, I will say this....If there was nothing else to this story, and he acted selfishly.... it ended in her best interest, she will be the wiser....I believe, many that go through trials like this, are directed towards someone, that will love them in a way they have not known. I speak of an emotionally rewarding love, and assume that she is in Christ Jesus.

So if the Lord were to come back today would you say this pastor,who has not repented and is living in sin,would go to heaven?
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
So if the Lord were to come back today would you say this pastor,who has not repented and is living in sin,would go to heaven?
The criminal on the cross who died next to Jesus apparently when to heaven. It all depends on this mans relationship with Christ.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
Jesus probably will return before these verses refuting this doctrine are touched on by "rightlydivided"

Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

There it is. Same message for both jews and gentiles, repentance and faith, just like Jesus, just like Peter. Straight from Paul.

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 7:10-11
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Your quoting Paul.....of course he preached to both Jew and gentile as all were the same in his message...What is your point? Paul preached the finished work of the cross, not the law...to all
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
The disciples never taught the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for sins during Jesus’ earthly ministry. They had no understanding of it. On one occasion Peter rebuked Jesus for hinting of His death. They actually thought the resurrection was an idle tale.
Your original objection included that Jesus had not taught those things and I showed you otherwise. As far as the disciples go at that time, of course not, they had not yet grasped the purpose of Jesus' first coming.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
So if the Lord were to come back today would you say this pastor,who has not repented and is living in sin,would go to heaven?
It does not seem as though justice would be served does it? Thankfully it is not you, me, or even his ex-wife that would have the burden to judge him, because I do not know about you, but it would be very difficult for my flesh to handle....especially if I was her.

The Pastor happens to live within the dispinsation of grace, but he does have to be truly saved to enter the kingdom of heaven. Perpetual sin, as you say, was a doctrine my father raised me on...before he died, his last words were “my grace is sufficient for thee” , I watched him change...I was glad for him, that he was able to love those that did not seemingly deserve it...including myself...this Pastor may be the cruelest person inside, he may never have been saved......only God can discern his heart, and he will.

For your friend, I pray that she surrounds herself with friends and family and finds peace....this life can be so unfair. But she needs confidence now, she also needs to meet the real love of her life, I know that he is waiting for her....with prayer, they will find each other
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,817
3,581
113
Your original objection included that Jesus had not taught those things and I showed you otherwise. As far as the disciples go at that time, of course not, they had not yet grasped the purpose of Jesus' first coming.
So what was the gospel of the kingdom the disciples were preaching? It certainly was not the d,b,r of Jesus.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
So what was the gospel of the kingdom the disciples were preaching? It certainly was not the d,b,r of Jesus.
I believe I already addressed that back in post #195...
I believe that was in preparation for their Kingdom with Jesus as King but because they rejected Him, that Kingdom has been put on hold sort of speak.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
Isn't the message for the Jews and Gentiles the same...Himself. We mustn't get too lost in the audience because when it comes right down to it, He is always the message.
Do you believe I could find salvation in Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John?
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45 KJV)
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV)

Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:7 KJV)

What many are not understanding, who are placing undue emphasis on the Pauline Epistles (usually Mid Acts), is that as Paul spoke clearly in hindsight about the accomplishments of the Cross, whereas Jesus spoke in more veiled language to our ears...in illustrations, parables, living examples etc.
Take for example the story of the Rich Young Ruler who came to Jesus asking what he must do to gain eternal life. In that story we find embedded such truths as 'all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory' and 'with man salvation is impossible' but not through God' ...all truths repeated by Paul.
So no, there really is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul if one rightly divides God's Word. And Gentile Christians can benefit by studying the Words of Jesus.
Do you believe I could find salvation in Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,738
3,667
113
Do you believe I could find salvation in Mathew, Luke, Mark, and John?
Yes, especially John...

John 20:31 NASB
[31] but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,632
113
Would like to hear the 2 "gospels" preached to see what the "one for the Jews" sounds like. :):geek:
Check out John Hagee's babble. He says they can just keep the torah.

Ok, so you believe I could find salvation in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?
Yes

John 20:31
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

How about John 3:16? WHAT ABOUT THAT.

If I was to recommend TWO BOOKS from the Bible to someone who just got saved, it would be the gospel of John and the book of Romans!