Rightly divided

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Dec 26, 2018
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Ok. So would you say a Christian is sinless after they are saved. And then if the answer to that is yes then you would say that a person who sinned was never saved in the first place. So are you OSAS? Just wondering.
I believe in eternal salvation, so yes.

Can anyone say to you, you are not your fathers daughter? No....that would be impossible, and you would think them resiculous for saying so.....does God chastise his children? Do you chastise yours? Yes.....I believe that god can chastise his unruly child, but he can not forsake you....you were sealed the moment you believed, it is only your flesh that would make you question your belief in him at that point...your spirit will wait for you to return if you stray.

Colossians 3:3: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” Can the devil find that which God hides?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Jesus probably will return before these verses refuting this doctrine are touched on by "rightlydivided"

Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

There it is. Same message for both jews and gentiles, repentance and faith, just like Jesus, just like Peter. Straight from Paul.

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 7:10-11
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,385
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I believe that sin is still sin....wether a Christian or nonbeliever is actively sinning....in which we all are. When we accept Christ as our personal savior, and believe that he died for the very subject we are discussing....I cannot rob him of the victory at the cross, by saying to you that: if I sin, as a Christian, his death is void of victory
I'm going to share a true story with you. If you don't mind can you give me your opinion on it?

I had a pastor and wife couple years ago that pastored our church. We were very close friends with them.He was a great pastor,deep in his preaching,the church loved him. I never discerned anything untoward about him. We moved away and they moved on to another church.

About a year ago this pastors wife contacted me,heart broken. Her husband had left her for the worship leader of there church. A much younger woman. They had been married 30 yrs. They grown children with children of their own. He is now in the process of marrying this young worship leader now that he has divorced his wife.

So my question is how does his behavior square with your beliefs. We know he was saved,he was a preacher for years. We know he is sinning. How do you see this situation if you don't mind sharing your feelings.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
Jesus probably will return before these verses refuting this doctrine are touched on by "rightlydivided"

Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

There it is. Same message for both jews and gentiles, repentance and faith, just like Jesus, just like Peter. Straight from Paul.

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 7:10-11
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Whoa! Am I going to need to install a pop up blocker?

Ok, what answer are you looking for? I will respond in kind.

If you are trying to prove that through Paul, the mystery that was kept secret, gave salvation to all, and in this message there is no distinction between Jew and gentile alike....go no further, this has always been true.....

You missed my point, and maybe I am partly to blame, but you are not applying due diligence to look at my previous posts on the matter.

If you believe it sound doctrine, for a pastor to preach out of the book of Matthew, to someone that is a babe in Christ, and does not understand the message of grace and salvation through faith “without works” preached by Paul, you are wrong and will only create confusion and self condemnation, which is dangerous in and of itself, it will also rob Christ of the victory on the cross IF and i will say IF, the person or people you are preaching to, are lead to believe, that if they do not follow the 4 gospels, and apply them successfully in their life.....The 4 gospels on the kingdom of god, have elements of the law, and it’s application...as the law was fully administered during Christ’s earthly ministry.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
I'm going to share a true story with you. If you don't mind can you give me your opinion on it?

I had a pastor and wife couple years ago that pastored our church. We were very close friends with them.He was a great pastor,deep in his preaching,the church loved him. I never discerned anything untoward about him. We moved away and they moved on to another church.

About a year ago this pastors wife contacted me,heart broken. Her husband had left her for the worship leader of there church. A much younger woman. They had been married 30 yrs. They grown children with children of their own. He is now in the process of marrying this young worship leader now that he has divorced his wife.

So my question is how does his behavior square with your beliefs. We know he was saved,he was a preacher for years. We know he is sinning. How do you see this situation if you don't mind sharing your feelings.
Thank you for the question, I would be glad to share my feelings.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
I'm going to share a true story with you. If you don't mind can you give me your opinion on it?

I had a pastor and wife couple years ago that pastored our church. We were very close friends with them.He was a great pastor,deep in his preaching,the church loved him. I never discerned anything untoward about him. We moved away and they moved on to another church.

About a year ago this pastors wife contacted me,heart broken. Her husband had left her for the worship leader of there church. A much younger woman. They had been married 30 yrs. They grown children with children of their own. He is now in the process of marrying this young worship leader now that he has divorced his wife.

So my question is how does his behavior square with your beliefs. We know he was saved,he was a preacher for years. We know he is sinning. How do you see this situation if you don't mind sharing your feelings.
I personally find that a tragedy on many levels. His church will need to decide how they feel about his position and it’s not a clear one to make.
God however has already forgiven him.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,385
4,814
113
I personally find that a tragedy on many levels. His church will need to decide how they feel about his position and it’s not a clear one to make.
God however has already forgiven him.
Well they left that church as a couple, then news came out what he had done before they began to pastor the next church. So they withdrew their offer. He is now living with his girlfriend.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,921
2,660
113
Jesus probably will return before these verses refuting this doctrine are touched on by "rightlydivided"

Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

There it is. Same message for both jews and gentiles, repentance and faith, just like Jesus, just like Peter. Straight from Paul.

Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 7:10-11
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Can you show some verses from the four gospels where Jesus and His disciples were preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins? Thanks.
 
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
I'm going to share a true story with you. If you don't mind can you give me your opinion on it?

I had a pastor and wife couple years ago that pastored our church. We were very close friends with them.He was a great pastor,deep in his preaching,the church loved him. I never discerned anything untoward about him. We moved away and they moved on to another church.

About a year ago this pastors wife contacted me,heart broken. Her husband had left her for the worship leader of there church. A much younger woman. They had been married 30 yrs. They grown children with children of their own. He is now in the process of marrying this young worship leader now that he has divorced his wife.

So my question is how does his behavior square with your beliefs. We know he was saved,he was a preacher for years. We know he is sinning. How do you see this situation if you don't mind sharing your feelings.
Kayla I assume?
I feel sorrow for all involved, I have gone though family issues similar to this and I know that it is heartbreaking... I am not privy to the issues they must have been going through behind closed doors, but I do not believe it has ever been the will of God for a married couple, joined as one flesh, to part ways. My heart goes out to the wife, the loss of someone you have been with for so long, especially to another woman, is one of the hardest things to endure beyond losing a child. I would take issue with the Pastor, not because he could not continue in his marriage, (he may have dealt with something we have no understanding of, if I had more information, I could have a diff opionion) I believe that marriage should be permanent, and do not agree with divorce if by all means it can be saved....but because he involved another woman, during a time that was already going to be very difficult for her, my flesh would unfortunately win the battle of the day, and I would not have many nice things to say about him...unfortunelatey this is a subject that I am admittedly weak on, my flesh wants choke this man, for allowing another woman in the picture, before the wife had time to grow from losing him...it is not fair, it is cruel...But we know, that if she seeks Gods face, through Christ, she will not be given more than she can handle, and God will send her a man that will reconcile what she went through...She will find peace. As far as the Pastor goes, I could not condemn him, I do not know the depths of his mind...I could not rebuke him, I know not what happened, I will say this....If there was nothing else to this story, and he acted selfishly.... it ended in her best interest, she will be the wiser....I believe, many that go through trials like this, are directed towards someone, that will love them in a way they have not known. I speak of an emotionally rewarding love, and assume that she is in Christ Jesus.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,939
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Can you show some verses from the four gospels where Jesus and His disciples were preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins? Thanks.
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45 KJV)
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV)

Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:7 KJV)

What many are not understanding, who are placing undue emphasis on the Pauline Epistles (usually Mid Acts), is that as Paul spoke clearly in hindsight about the accomplishments of the Cross, whereas Jesus spoke in more veiled language to our ears...in illustrations, parables, living examples etc.
Take for example the story of the Rich Young Ruler who came to Jesus asking what he must do to gain eternal life. In that story we find embedded such truths as 'all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory' and 'with man salvation is impossible' but not through God' ...all truths repeated by Paul.
So no, there really is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul if one rightly divides God's Word. And Gentile Christians can benefit by studying the Words of Jesus.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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Can you show some verses from the four gospels where Jesus and His disciples were preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins? Thanks.
I can show where Jesus taught it, yet even when you're shown Scripture you don't believe because you're incapable of critical thinking or implementing 2 Timothy 2:15.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,921
2,660
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For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45 KJV)
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV)

Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:7 KJV)

What many are not understanding, who are placing undue emphasis on the Pauline Epistles (usually Mid Acts), is that as Paul spoke clearly in hindsight about the accomplishments of the Cross, whereas Jesus spoke in more veiled language to our ears...in illustrations, parables, living examples etc.
Take for example the story of the Rich Young Ruler who came to Jesus asking what he must do to gain eternal life. In that story we find embedded such truths as 'all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory' and 'with man salvation is impossible' but not through God' ...all truths repeated by Paul.
So no, there really is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul if one rightly divides God's Word. And Gentile Christians can benefit by studying the Words of Jesus.
No one including his disciples understood that Jesus was going to die on the cross for sins until after it happened. So the question is, what was the gospel of the kingdom the disciples were preaching which included signs and miracles?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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No one including his disciples understood that Jesus was going to die on the cross for sins until after it happened.
That's because the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. Whether one understands or not, doesn't change the message.
So the question is, what was the gospel of the kingdom the disciples were preaching which included signs and miracles?
I believe that was in preparation for their Kingdom with Jesus as King but because they rejected Him, that Kingdom has been put on hold sort of speak.
But your question really has little to do with my answer to your question, "Can you show some verses from the four gospels where Jesus and His disciples were preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins? "

I showed the verses and now where is your objection?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,921
2,660
113
That's because the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. Whether one understands or not, doesn't change the message.

I believe that was in preparation for their Kingdom with Jesus as King but because they rejected Him, that Kingdom has been put on hold sort of speak.
But your question really has little to do with my answer to your question, "Can you show some verses from the four gospels where Jesus and His disciples were preaching the death, burial and resurrection for sins? "

I showed the verses and now where is your objection?
The disciples never taught the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for sins during Jesus’ earthly ministry. They had no understanding of it. On one occasion Peter rebuked Jesus for hinting of His death. They actually thought the resurrection was an idle tale.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,715
113
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. (Mark 10:45 KJV)
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV)

Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. (Luke 24:7 KJV)

What many are not understanding, who are placing undue emphasis on the Pauline Epistles (usually Mid Acts), is that as Paul spoke clearly in hindsight about the accomplishments of the Cross, whereas Jesus spoke in more veiled language to our ears...in illustrations, parables, living examples etc.
Take for example the story of the Rich Young Ruler who came to Jesus asking what he must do to gain eternal life. In that story we find embedded such truths as 'all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory' and 'with man salvation is impossible' but not through God' ...all truths repeated by Paul.
So no, there really is no contradiction between Jesus and Paul if one rightly divides God's Word. And Gentile Christians can benefit by studying the Words of Jesus.
It's a blessing to see the LORD granting you insight into his word brother.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,211
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Isn't the message for the Jews and Gentiles the same...Himself. We mustn't get too lost in the audience because when it comes right down to it, He is always the message.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,715
113
Isn't the message for the Jews and Gentiles the same...Himself. We mustn't get too lost in the audience because when it comes right down to it, He is always the message.
Exactly, Isaiah 57:19; Ephesians 2:14. There is only one Gospel!